89Trooper

Gary Loat... he's in this list:

http://forums.bradbarnett.net/showthread.php?t=63697

B00ST

Tom - Keep us updated on your progress. I've been watching/lurking on this post as I have planned on buying a Turbonetics kit in Jan/Feb...but I want to see how you make out with JR's kit. I'd like to make sure things are right before I consider anything (as I am sure you would do).

I hope all works out and that thing makes some more power and it's drivable..Hopefully JR will get it worked out while he is at PRI this week.
Take care.
Rob

89Trooper

Thanks! I'll keep you updated.

JR is going to drive the car tomorrow. Everything is right with the tune, so it only leaves something mechanical.

What I'm saying is, if I ended up with a bad part (wastegate, BOV, etc.), then you wouldn't have the same issue with spooling.

I limited boost levels down to where they should be with that connection from the manifold to the side of the wastegate. Hopefully JR can determine what is wrong when he drives the car tomorrow.

I'm sure he'll take care of it!

65sohc

Do you have any sort of boost controller or are you relying solely on the wastegate spring? The only way to get the turbo to spool quicker is with a boost controller. With a controller the wastegate diaphragm does not receive a signal until right before the desired boost setting so the wastegate valve stays closed allowing all the exhaust to spin the turbine. If you are running a line directly from the intake manifold, as soon as the engine starts to make boost the diaphragm will start to open the wastegate valve and begin dumping exhaust slowing the rate of spool.

89Trooper

No, I don't have a boost controller. But, this is the first time I've had this explained to me in this manner. That all makes perfect sense to me.

I'm planning on getting a boost controller down the road, but maybe I should do it sooner than later?

But how come the boost still came in slow when I didn't have anything hooked to the wastegate?

89Trooper

I met with JR Granatelli yesterday and he drove the hell out of the car... in a good way! I didn't have my camera, but the guys with JR got some pictures... including a shot of the 1st and 2nd gear patches through the parking lot. We ran out of room before he could hit 3rd. He's a really nice guy and is totally revolved around customer service.

He had the tuner send me another tune, which I now have on my memory stick. I couldn't get it to upload to the Predator. He's sure from all the testing that everything is working properly. He was under the car while I was revving it to 5 grand checking things out!

After work today, I'm going back to PRI and the DiabloSport guys are going to get the tune into the Predator. Then I'm going to upload the tune to the car and JR has set up 2 dyno pulls for me at the show.

It'll be on a Mustang Dyno, but supposedly, there is a "Dyno Jet" setting.

The new tune will add timing back and take away a little more fuel. When Scott saw the 13 psi, he got really conservative. Now it will be back to normal with about 7 psi max boost levels. Which is perfect for my needs.

I'll post my results tonight! I'm still just hoping for a tad over 400 RWHP. I was almost there last time!

for GMS!

65sohc

If there is no boost signal going to the wastegate, ie. if there are no vacuum/pressure hoses connected to the diaphragm, the wastegate is not functioning and the engine will develop as much boost as the turbo is capable of making, limited mainly by intake and exhaust restriction. The turbo will also spool at maximum rate when the WG is not operational. 13plus psi is pretty low for an uncontrolled turbo. I would suspect that the BOV spring tension is set too low and it is opening and bleeding off intake pressure.

89Trooper

With out any connections (to the TOP or SIDE) of the wastegate is when it went to 13psi.

Now, with vacuum/pressure to the SIDE of the wastegate, it only goes to about 6psi.

Scott pulled timing because of the high boost. With the new improved tune, they are positive max boost will increase to 7psi. That's fine for me.

The DiabloSport people weren't at their booth yesterday, so everything that was supposed to happen yesterday is scheduled for today, instead. The show starts today, so they'll be around today for sure.

89Trooper

The 2nd day at PRI was also a bust for the dyno.
I'm just going to pay $55 to Justin (VMP Tuning) to get the car dyno'd on a Dyno Jet in January at Silver Springs.

I want to get a boost controller and try it out. The new tune is made for 8psi, so that's what I want to set the boost controller to.

Here are install instructions for the wastegate:

http://www.tialmedia.com/documents/w..._wginstall.pdf

See how it says to hook up the SIDE of the wastegate to vacuum/pressure BEFORE the throttle plate?

My connection to the side is from the intake manifold, which is AFTER the throttle body.

Anybody know what the difference is? Or why it would matter?

turbo05gt

I think mine are connected the same way yours are and are working fine, Ill send a pic tomorrow.

89Trooper

I can't think of any difference... but there's still a lot I don't know!

turbo05gt

Hey check this site, these guys know turbos.

http://turbomustangs.com/

65sohc

I keep looking at your dyno chart and, frankly, it is just horrible. Look at the chart posted by Bullitt995. In the span of about 800 RPM his torque balloons from 320 to 480 at 10 psi. He's got full spool and full boost by about 4500 so he has a huge amount of power under the curve. Your NA 89 actually has more torque at 4000 RPM than your GT. That just isn't right. Don't get me wrong. 392 rwhp is nothing to sneeze at. It's a lot more than I have, but it's like being built like Arnold Schwarzneggar and only being able to benchpress 200 lbs. Sure that's more than 95% of the population can lift, but with muscles like that a guy should be able to do a lot more. It just doesn't add up. If I were you I would insist that Granatelli make it right. I'm happy to send you the boost controller (I did find it), but I don't think that is the answer. Even with massive turbo lag you did eventually peak at 13 plus psi so you should be making the same amount of power that everyone else does at that boost level.

Granatelli

If you go before the throttle plate - that means there is no vac when you are at idle and basically nthing at cruise either

Granatelli

And I still agree in general with the comments above. - Tom asked for an entry level kit and that is what he got. Our website shows the entry level kit makes 6psi and only 370hp. But the torque should be in the 410 range. I have agreed to exchange any and all components in question. I personally inspected teh car and it looked A OK . His turbo has a 1 year warranty as well. However, we need to get the parts back to inspect them before we can just start shipping more stuff. That is standard and only fair.

I also agree that at 13psi the car shuld have been making 530 to 550 even at 6000 .

89Trooper

Your instructions say to go before the throttle plate. It says to hook up to the 1/8" NPT in the turbo... is that where I should hook up the SIDE of the wastegate to?

See attachment:

Attachment 36770

Let's be perfectly clear: I didn't buy an "entry level kit". The entry level kit didn't come with injectors, mass air meter, or the Predator w/tune. The instruction manual says 7psi and I was told 420 RWHP would be no problem.

See attachment:

Attachment 36771

I'm hoping it will show at least 420 on a Dyno Jet. I would like a boost controller so I can set it to 8psi since that's what Scott's new tune is designed for.

As far as the Torque being low, I guess it points to a boost leak. I have the nose off the car right now and every clamp is tight.

I think a wastegate and/or BOV can be shipped without having to put my car out of commission for a week or more. I'll return what I don't use, of course. You said yourself that the turbo has the correct air ratio and it would be VERY rare if it was defective, so let's start with the simple things that I can change in a matter of minutes.

By the way, the new tune that Scott provided made no change in the way the car feels.

Granatelli

Quote:

Originally Posted by 89Trooper

Your instructions say to go before the throttle plate. It says to hook up to the 1/8" NPT in the turbo... is that where I should hook up the SIDE of the waste gate to?

In reality the device will work in either place, the turbo or the place you have it now. When we wrote the instructions we felt that too much was being hooked up to the vacuum reference on the Fuel sending unit. Again it works in either location, we talked about that when we first had the telephone convo.

Quote:

Originally Posted by 89Trooper

Let's be perfectly clear: I didn't buy an "entry level kit". The entry level kit didn't come with injectors, mass air meter, or the Predator w/tune. The instruction manual says 7psi and I was told 420 RWHP would be no problem.

The stock Mustang is rated at 300hp crank and makes 255 to the tire. That is a 15% loss. 420hp claimed by us less 15% is 357hp to the tire. It also matched up with the dyno sheets on our website.



We know the kits will make 400 to the tire but that was never our written claim on the base kit. The kits will go up to 20psi and we have several cars out the road in the upper 600 low 700hp range.

It really comes down to semantics but you did buy our entry level kit with 39lb inj, MAF and base tune. Granted Scott missed on round one but he was quick to send a new tune and up to the point where you dyno’d it, you wrote how happy you were.

Quote:

Originally Posted by 89Trooper

As far as the Torque being low, I guess it points to a boost leak. I have the nose off the car right now and every clamp is tight.

Tom – all due respect, you agreed I have tried my best to make you happy. I set aside as much time as you needed at the show and walked away from my sales area to stop and work on your car. I also tried to run your car on the dyno while I was there. This would have allowed me to check your BOV and waste gate under full boost. From what I witnessed your BOV and waste gate are working fine. Again I am offering to bench test them but I can’t send you more parts without getting back what you already have. Also we still have not received the extra CAT we sent you. In that box was the Exh plug you asked for as well.

In closing, I am not sure if it is your driving style or not but Scott added 5^ of timing in the middle which would make a huge difference seat of the pants. And again all due respect you said the car would not break the tires loose and that was a non-issue when I gave you a ride. I never banged gears and never even shifted your car above 5500 and it still managed to lay rubber in second for 3 or 4 feet until I lifted. With all this said I still agree your car is not the fastest 6psi 2006 Mustang I have ever driven and I am willing to inspect your parts the same day they come in. I also offered to send you a spring that will increase your boost to 8psi. If Scott told you the tune was set for 8psi that does not mean GMS owes you an 8psi spring. However we are giving that to you as well in an effort to make you happy. Comparing the stroker motor in your 89 to a mod motor from idle to 4500 is apples and watermelon.

Bullitt995

I would get a boost controller if I were you. The only reason my 76mm spools up at a respectable pace is because of the Eboost-2 that I had installed at the same time. Paul at SVPU told me it definatly helps with the lag by controlling how the wastegate opens. It's also got TONS of options. Plus it saved me money instead of buying an electronic boost gauge + boost controller.

Granatelli

I would really like to know how a boost controller makes the turbo make boost sooner

NYNY53

When I read the wording in the attachment I feel the wording is misleading, especially when GMS says its good for only 357 at the rear wheels. I also get the feeling the wording is left to be purposely ambiguous.

The wording should be corrected to something along the lines of a HP range that can be expected and to specifically say the HP is measured at the rear wheels (not will support 450 to the rear wheels). That would cover the difference inherit from auto to auto.

From what I've learned here at TMS Tom is one of the most honorable members we have and now this thread is veering in a direction thats seemed to be almost foreseeable given others experiences..................

I don't agree with the response GMS provided in the previous post, frankly I was hoping the vendor would have gone out of there way to ensure this turned out to be a very positive experience, especially since its getting such visibility with its focal thread. Seems like there are a number of vendors here who really understand customer service and how to ensure their customers are totally satisfied, vendors such as MGW or Brenspeed come immediately to mind.

I'm in the Just Fix It and Make the Customer Happy and Right! camp, NOW

Very disappointing to me, hang in there Tom, I hope this sorts itself out for you and you end up totally satisfied.