I kid, I actually have always like the gtos, especially with the 6.0. My friends was the fastest thing I had rode in for quite some time.

 

All this look and how a car is perceived is one thing but what sold me on getting a new Mustang GT was the 420 HP Coyote engine.

I didn't mind the controversial rear end, i finally had a fast pony that could compete with anything below 100k out there.

looking forward to the '15 which i will probably buy even with a modest gain in HP.

 

Yesir, had they continued with the 4.6, I would have just kept my 04 GT. The 5.0 + 6 speed was huge for me.

 

No problem. I don't mind the good-natured ribbing.

GM killed my beloved Pontiac and I'm out there now as a "Free Agent". I'm hoping the 2015 Mustang has a decent look, doesn't shrink in size too much and even if it "only" had 420 HP with a possibly lighter weight and the new IRS setup it is on the short list of my next new vehicle coming next year.

I'm enjoying getting to see Ford beat GM to the punch bringing out the 2015 Mustang first and GM playing catch up with the 2016 Camaro. I'm sure Ford has seen that the upcoming LT1 engine in the Corvette is preliminarily rated at 450 HP. (Could be more as we will see soon also). Would like to see Ford follow suit with the Coyote 5.0

 

I just seriously hope DI is part of the engine.

Because it will allow to tune clear to 750 hp on a stock engine with boost, which would be crazy awesome. A 750 hp car for under 40 K with awesome everything else is amazing. Getting a tune for 525whp and 625 whp, street and track, would be such an amazing setup.

Not only that, but stock DI will bump hp and mpg both by about 12% at the same level of tuning. 28 mpg and 450hp for $33K is an amazing offering far surpassing anything of the past.

The other thing with that, is that with the weight reduction, the performance gap between the Mustang and Corvette becomes more narrow. That is a huge step in the right direction.

I know people are naysaying DI (which is retarded) because we don't "need" it, but if the 2015 is going to be something special, it needs DI. A new design with IRS and weight reduction is only part of what will make the car great. The engine really needs to set itself apart from the previous generation. DI is that thing.

I'll be honest, if the 50th isn't everything I hope it to be, I'm putting a C7 in the garage. If it delivers to my expectations, I will stay a brand loyalist and buy another Mustang. I don't expect it to match Corvette C7 performance, that's unrealistic. However, a GT with suspension mods and a blower will be a million times for satisfying to drive. The C7 is just so dang sexy though!!!

I'm waiting it out, impatiently. Hahaha.

 

Idk where you get your info from. DI does not provide those kinds of gains.

 

I'm confused by his post as well. DI and boost? You need FI to get boost...so what exactly is DI?

 

Direct Injection would realistically add maybe 10-30 hp to the current 5.0 , so a 450hp is at least possible.

 

DI is direct injection of the fuel. Having it responds better to boost from FI, but not to that extent. And DI by itself doesn't give those kinds of gains, per other recent engines that have DI.

 

I was saying if you add boost (via a supercharger), DI will allow you to tune to more hp than without it.

 

Direct Injection places the fuel injector directly into the combustion chamber.

I was referring to boost via a supercharger while having DI.

Given the current 5.0 can be tuned fairly safely to 700 hp, the DI will allow more boost and/or more timing safely.

The largest benefit of direct injection is that is is shot at extremely high pressure, which provides a substantial cooling effect. Also, it provides a more consistent and precise A/F ratio. These in combination provide the ability to tune more aggressively via more boost, timing, and in NA cars, higher compression without detonation (giving you more power).

As I stated in my previous post, had you read everything I said, in stock form an engine will benefit about a 12% power (if you choose to tune it as such) and mpg increase. That puts the 5.0 to 460+ hp and 28 mpg.

 

It doesn't need it next model year. It's wont have DI. This 5.0 is going to be around for a long time.

 

And what I meant was, I highly doubt the stock engine would see those gains, just with DI.

 

Again with the "doesn't need" stuff.

Naysay all you want. That's not forward thinking.

Here's why I think you are mistaken:

By the time the 2019 or 2020 MY comes around (whichever year is a significant change) the Coyote is 10 years old. Given technology's exponentially increasing rates of progression, 10 years is very old. They are NOT going to drag the current block clear into 2025, which is what would happen if they delayed DI until the S550 2020MY refresh, with DI being the only change of significance.

GM has gone from LS2 to LS3 to LT1 in 9 years. 2005 MY to 2014 MY.

Ford has gone from 2V 4.6 SOHC, to 3V 4.6 SOHC to 4V 5.0 DOHC in 15 years. 1996MY to 2011MY.

2015 MY ought to see a significant upgrade, especially given it's the 50th Anniversary.

The 5.0 is an excellent platform that is good for about 10 years worth the cars in its technology and design. Technology is moving faster forward by the year. 1/2 way through that 10 years, a significant improvement needs to be made. DI is most logical, since it's designed for it. It's been capable of utilizing DI for 4 years. I recall an article in 2010 I'm trying to track down that spoke of Engineering already testing and developing the DI system in the Coyote. It will be ready.

The 3V SOHC 4.6 lasted 6 years in production for the mustang. The current 5.0 will last 10.
By the time 2020 shows up, the Coyote's technology will be essentially 11-12 years old given it started development in 2008, being released in 2010 for the 2011MY.

They can't ride out the current engine until 2020 before adding DI. Meeting MPG and emissions standards is one reason. Making a more appealing product now using the obvious instead of 5 years from now and then having nothing to go on after that, is not what a good marketing team plans for.

It's probable the Coyote sees end of life 6 years from now not 11, which is what would happen if they delayed DI until a refresh. Nobody wants 15 year old technology in their 2024 MY car. Not gonna happen.



If the 2015 truly wants to impress, it will have DI.

Show me where my logic is flawed.



In 2020ish, I see the V8 remaining, but at smaller displacement using turbos for increased fuel efficiency and maintaing power output. That will be a new block, new tech, etc.

In fact, I think it's likely 2020 will not be a only a refresh, but a completely new platform altogether focusing on the latest in strength, lightness and geometry. The S550 is supposedly more of an update than a complete ground up work over. This also cannot carry clear into 2025.

As an engineer that works in product development, we are being more increasingly pressured to innovate and advance. The consumer wants better and more frequent updates. Cars are different than say, a cell phone, but I highly doubt the Coyote lasts past 2019 nor do I believe the S550 platform lives past that same time. Had the platform been completely fresh like the Alpha (maybe it is and we get a big surprise!), it could live into 2025.


Anyways, DI does make sense right now.

You are correct, it doesn't absolutely need it, but it would be a foolish strategy to leave it out right now. If I was a Ford engineer, knowing the 5.0 has DI capability, and which has been known since 2008 during development of the block, I would fully expect the next phase of engine development after the release of the 2011MY would be to test and develop a working DI version. They haven't sat on their hands all this time, have they?

 

Copied from another site:


Using Hyundai as example

2.4 FI * * vs * *2.4 DI
174hp * * * * * *198hp
168tq * * * * * *184tq

3.8 F1(2011 Genesis) vs 3.8 DI (2012 Genesis)
290hp * * * * * * * 333hp * * **
264tq * * * * * * * 291tq
27mpg * * * * * * * 29mpg




To be fair, I think these engines increased compression as well, but the numbers are significant.





From 420 to 460 hp is not a dubious # for the 5.0 with DI. The rumored (falsely IMO) 475hp isn't that outrageous.

How much does a 5.0 currently make with an aftermarket tune? 435-440 hp?

A DI system would be much more significant an improvement than that.

Sure, they could put DI on it and tune it to the very same 420hp if they wanted to. That would be underutilizing the engine though. They could safely, and with warranty in mind, advance timing and pull a significant amount more hp from the car.

They tuned the BOSS to 444 hp, and other than forged components, the engine is geometrically identical. Ya, it has a different intake manifold which contributes to the HP as well. Point is, the 5.0 is very capable as is, a DI system will put it to the next level. 450+ from the factory on DI is very achievable. 475 is achievable, but I don't think you'll see those numbers on a factory GT this coming generation. Aftermarket tuners with intake and exhaust mods will exceed 475 guaranteed.



If Ford does indeed go with DI, I wouldn't be surprised to see revised camshafts as well.

 

Well thought out post. I didn't say the 5.0 didn't need DI, but I just don't think we'll see those gains with a warranty. It's possible though...

 

Well reading all the posts i understand. And it is feasable to see those types of gains without much danger if the DI (hopefully) does make it into the 15MY.
I would love to see that happening as it increases performance and efficiency numbers as well. It would add so much more potential to the motor and the car itself. But i do wonder though, how much can the current chassis handle powerwise? Because it theres the possibility of simple mods seeing 475+, how much could we see from the more extreme tuning companies and how much power can be added before it overpowers the rest of the vehicle

 

The GT500 makes an insane amount of torque over the 5.0 and the chassis takes it well.

The updates to the platform will most likely include stiffness in key points. Chassis flex will be reduced a good amount.

Body roll needs a little improvement, whereas brake dive needs some serious improvement. From the underhood spy pictures, the shock tower geometry appears to have been heavily revised. The steering communication needs to be much more clear and defined than it is currently. The rear obviously has heavy revisions via IRS.

IRS better be able to handle that heavy torque load of a boosted V8. The V6 and I4 motors may use less expensive materials in their drive axles in the IRS, while the V8 variants have a stronger material to handle the torque. Pure speculation, but from a cost perspective, it may be prudent.

The chassis is going to be upgraded in all the right ways, I have faith in that.

 

Im sure Ford will use the same IRS on all models for cost saving. Plus im sure the potential to reach GT power will be there for the smaller motors as well so that will be another benefit: It would support aftermarket

The body roll is crazy on the current stock sixxer and is better on a gt but not much. As for brake dive, i dont wanna get much into that because we all know its pretty bad from the factory.

As for the gt500 i know ive seen a couple reviews stating the chassis felt a tad under par for its performance numbers. Brakes were a major issue as well. Id love to see Ford partner with Baer or Wilwood for their brakes or just bring better Brembo rotors and better pads

 

Also the steering feel would be better if there was some weight to it. Yea i love the electronic power assist just because it makes steering so effortless. But i ld prefer feeling the weight of the wheel as its turning and have some resistance. It would instill a better sense of control and add to the drivers confidence when driving spiritedly or on an auto-x/road course.

I believe the new 3 series (and the outgoing m3) would be perfect targets for the next gen stang. In terms of overall refinement, interior quality, and driving pleasure, BMW does a **** good job. Not saying we need Alcantara everywhere (although it would be nice) but materials, touch surfaces, quality fit and finish, all of these things are core to a great interior. The current mustang has a great interior, also surprisingly very quiet with the windows up, but i think it would be a wise choice to really kick it up a notch for the 15MY.