Was a joke, didn't mean to start a holy war

 

You'll be burned at the stake, you son of a *****!

Lolololololololol!

 

Lol it's cool.
Ji-had me going for a while. Get it!

 

Well looks like you opened up a can of worms. Total sucess.

Eh, we'll take anything in these rough times.

 

Or a V12 for the P51 option. :-)

I think the power outputs sound a touch high perhaps, but then, this isn't the "good enough" Ford of even a few years ago so who knows...

 

Even if the numbers were off its still a pretty realistic guess at future power numbers if the original word is even true. 475 to the crank? Seems easy enough.
But the v6 at 400hp? Possible, yes. Expensive, probably. One badass ride, hell yes

 

Outgoing GT is 420hp, and the Boss was 444hp. Let's split the difference and call 432hp an educated guess. A modest bump in power without stepping on the toes of a very prestigious name in Mustang history.

 

If they want to compete with Camaro, they need to match the power output of the LT1 @450hp. If they want to leave the Camaro without a chance, they'll go to 475, which I highly doubt will happen. Chevy has traditionally never matched power output of the Camaro to the Corvette, so I'm guessing 440-445 hp in the Camaro. However the Camaro is getting a very significant decrease in mass, I suspect much much more than the Mustang is getting.. The Alpha platform is getting tons of praise. The next Camaro is going to be killer. Ford can best them before they ever get the chance.



Each modern generation of mustang has recieved significant power increases.

210 to 260 to 300 (and 315) to 412 (and 420). They need to hit 450 minimum. With DI, revised timing (DI allows for significantly more timing) and some other tweaks, 475 isn't a real stretch. The 458 Italia's V8 makes 570 hp with less cubic inch (apples to oranges, I know). 100 HP less than that is certainly achievable, realistically.

They could care less about "stepping on the toes" of a previous generation car. Respect to an earlier generation/specialty car and not wanting to surpass it is the complete opposite of progress. I bet the GT will match or surpass the Boss' performance in every category. If they weren't shooting for that, they didn't aim very high and shame on them.

A weak bump of 12 hp (or a 3% power increase) is not going to cut it. Plain and simple.

 

They don't need 450hp. You can argue that point, but if Camaro doesn't bump their power figures up for a year or two, why bother going hog wild with yours? 432hp will trump the Camaro on paper, and be a marked improvement over the last gen car.

 

No car needs 450hp.

Why bother? Because if they don't, the media will destroy them, that's why. With all the build up and anticipation of the 2015, a tiny increase (a virtually non-discernable amount) will surely disappoint. Ford has constantly been promising something really special.

Ford surely anticipates stiff competition only a year following the release of the 2015. Sitting on their thumbs for a year or two while the new Camaro gives it to Ford from behind isn't something they are about to take laying down. The Z28 just upped the game. Guess what happens when a next generation 7.0 liter direct injected V8 gets stuffed into a 350 lb lighter car? The bar will be raised another 2 notches. As for the 2016 SS, it's going to hit 0-60 1/2 second faster than the current car.

Ford is smart. Doing some bare minimum upgrades is not going to happen with such a highly anticipated release, as well as extremely improved competition right around the corner.

Hog wild? *cough 2013 GT500 with 662 hp *cough

A marked improvement? I wouldn't call it that in the slightest. 12hp increase on a 420 hp car ain't diddly squat. 12 hp increase on a 150 hp car ain't crap either.

 

I approve this message.

 

Are you a member of the media? I doubt they'll get beat up over it. The 5.0 has brought the car back into a prime position and people have taken notice. You need to keep things moving forward and providing continuous improvement, but without going too far ahead of the game, especially with the GT. With the 6th gen Camaro nothing more than rumor and hype at this point, there's no sense to jump too far ahead. If the Camaro comes out with more power, Ford can address that with the mid cycle refresh, most likely in '18, if they follow their recent trends.

 

I'm all for continuous improvement, but 12 hp is half-azzing it.

The Camaro is just rumor, but so is the 2015.

We know the 5.0 will carry over, and we know the LT1 is extremely likely.

The 2015 will likely see 150-200 lb weight reduction. The Camaro will be 300+.

The only way for Mustang to compete is to implement Direct Injection and match the HP of the LT1. The torque curve of the LT1 will be a big advantage around the track.



Ford knows that GM is bringing their A game and you are suggesting they be more conservative and let Camaro surpass them after just 1 year, and wait another 2 years before they try to top them while Camaro gets more praise for performance and outsells Mustang?

Or they can 1-Up themselves by outperforming the Boss and make it really difficult for Camaro to compete when it's released.



Nah, they should just do a little here and a little there and insist on playing catch-up instead of defining a new standard that is tough to beat.

 

Agreed, ford has been playing that game since 93. It took them till 2011 to make a stock mustang surpass a stock ls1 from 98. I love mustangs, buts it no wonder the ls1 is the legend it is when the mustang never attempted to compare. Dizzle is right, mustang finally got its ***** back in 2011 and they have to keep it going, or else we'll be back to the ls1 days in a couple years.

 

The 2015 is far past rumor since we've already seen sightings of new bits. The Camaro just went through a refresh that isn't even on lots yet. If/when the Alpha platform 6th gen appears (which again, has yet to be confirmed anywhere), you can start to compare.

First, the LT1 won't be rated the same as the C7. I'd guess a 435-440hp rating is more feasible. Second, the Coyote was the kick Ford needed to level the playing field. It was akin to hitting the reset button on the pony car game and thrust them back as a clear contender in that market. After the mid 90s cars were always following the GM pair, it was nice to see a lighter, more capable car out there for Ford fans to buy. Ford could offer a lighter car and the small power increase would feel more significant without doing anything else.

 

I love how this thread became:

1. Hopeful anticipation of the future/promise. (Yes news!)
2. Skeptical yet critical examination of the foundation. (Rumour or truth)
3. Disagreement (hp numbers)
4. Backhanded insults towards loved ones. (V6)
5. Projection towards another (Camaro)
7. Doubt (Camaro surpassing)

Sounds like my last marriage!

 

Continuous improvement is where its at.

We'll probably see a small increase in power and no DI. The weight loss and IRS is whats going to help the mustang compete in all aspects( performance, power, and efficiency) . But if the camaro comes out a year or so after the new mustang, thats plenty of time for Chevy to react and up power regardless of what the mustang has.

So I would rather Ford reduce weight by about 150lbs, increase power in the GT to maybe 430 just for marketing purposes. Make the car slightly quicker but shoot for the efficiency of it all.

 

If Ford advertises the '15 5.0 HP at around 430-435, wouldn't that be them advertising the true crank-HP of the 5.0 as we know it NOW ?

 

Lets put things into perspective, the next M3 (and M4 coupe) is expected to make 415 bhp from its turbo charged straight six............a similar figure to its current 4.0 V8.

Don't think of the Camaro being the benchmark..............think of the class leader M3 being the benchmark. At least I hope that's what Ford is doing.

 

Ford has been testing and developing DI in the Coyote since 2010. It better be there come release time. The 5.0 was tooled with DI in mind, and I recall articles way back talking about Ford's development of DI in the 5.0. It needs to be there for one key reason, which you nailed it on the head. Efficiency.

Efficiency is indeed important, and moreso now than ever before with increasing oil costs and cafe standards, but that's hardly what the GT is all about. I'd love to see a 35mpg mustang, but it will be an entry level car(I4-T, V6), not the performance model. The GT isn't going to ever be a mpg king, but adding DI + weight reduction could realistically increase mpg by 15% for 2015, which would put it at happy 28-29 mpg. With CAFE standards, that 2 to 4 mpg increase is necesarry for Ford, not necessarily for the consumer.


The secondary, and performance oriented benefit of DI is tuning for more power, allowing more timing and more boost in aftermarket applications.

The V6 already uses DI.

The new vette uses DI, and so will the Gen 6 Camaro, being released as a 2016 MY.

The 2015 needs it. It ought to be there.