Louver replacement for quarter window glass
10/17/06, 03:10 PM
#481
Team Mustang Source Legacy Member
Actually, to be exact, the original Shelby Mustang ('65 GT350) had the same quarter vents as the regular Muatang 2+2's. The lexan inserts weren't added until the '66 GT350. Then for the '67 and on, the lexan windows were gone again from the Shelby's.
But like Marcello said, we modify our cars to our own specifications. Someone wanting to replicate the '66 GT350 would leave the windows alone, those wanting to replicate the '67-68 Shelby's and the Eleanor look put scoops over the top of the windows. I bought my car originaly partially because of the rear windows, but there are so many out there now, I kind of want to seperate mine from the heard, and these would both add a little more nostalgia and help differentiate it from all the rest.
But like Marcello said, we modify our cars to our own specifications. Someone wanting to replicate the '66 GT350 would leave the windows alone, those wanting to replicate the '67-68 Shelby's and the Eleanor look put scoops over the top of the windows. I bought my car originaly partially because of the rear windows, but there are so many out there now, I kind of want to seperate mine from the heard, and these would both add a little more nostalgia and help differentiate it from all the rest.
10/17/06, 03:27 PM
#482
Steve,
I'm just going to cut-n-paste the response to the same question that I just answered 10 minutes ago in another thread on this, so don't take it the wrong way, just trying to let people who are subscribed to this thread know what's up...
Mark,
Thank you for the compliments, they are appreciated. We did look at the 67-68 vent as an option, but since I get the final say on the design, I liked the look we could achieve with the 65-66 piece better. The lines on the 05 lend themselves to the more aggressive looking part, and the 12 vent setup didn't give us the ability to make them visible through the part due to the vent depths we would have had to work with. Having driven my 73 for years with no rear visibility, I try not to steal it away from cars that do have it, even if it's not a lot.
On to the questions:
Expected Installation: It's in the other thread we have going, in much greater detail, but expect the backyard mechanic to take about 2.5 hours with the aid of a friend, or even less by himself if given an air-cutter vs. using the piano wire we use.
Durability : Should be equivalant to OEM. We are recommending the same urethane sealer / glue to be used to adhere our part to the car that is used to hold the glass in place. There are no bolts or anything like that on the glass, and so our part does not have them either.
Durability of Materials: We are using a BASF engineered resin that has UV inhibitors built into the mix. The thickness of our piece is approximately the same as the factory glass or even thicker in areas, hence why it needs to be injection molded on a large (300 ton) press at over 500 degrees rather than vacuum formed like an R/C car body. Given also that it is smoke tinted rather than clear, and the UV resistance goes up, further enhancing the life of the part. We expect it to last as long as the car, given normal maintenance and care. Like our honeycomb panel and billet products, we do not look for customers to need to be replacing our parts every couple years - we expect that once you buy our parts, only an accident will require you to buy them again (and yes, we've had that come up ! )
Other than that, all I can say is that like other parts we manufacture right here in the USA, we only offer to make things I'd put on my own car. If I'm not happy with it, I can't expect our customers to be either. So when this is done, and I'm happy with it, that's when we will release it for production and to our pre-order customers. Simple rule that works well for us as a company.
I'm just going to cut-n-paste the response to the same question that I just answered 10 minutes ago in another thread on this, so don't take it the wrong way, just trying to let people who are subscribed to this thread know what's up...
Mark,
Thank you for the compliments, they are appreciated. We did look at the 67-68 vent as an option, but since I get the final say on the design, I liked the look we could achieve with the 65-66 piece better. The lines on the 05 lend themselves to the more aggressive looking part, and the 12 vent setup didn't give us the ability to make them visible through the part due to the vent depths we would have had to work with. Having driven my 73 for years with no rear visibility, I try not to steal it away from cars that do have it, even if it's not a lot.
On to the questions:
Expected Installation: It's in the other thread we have going, in much greater detail, but expect the backyard mechanic to take about 2.5 hours with the aid of a friend, or even less by himself if given an air-cutter vs. using the piano wire we use.
Durability : Should be equivalant to OEM. We are recommending the same urethane sealer / glue to be used to adhere our part to the car that is used to hold the glass in place. There are no bolts or anything like that on the glass, and so our part does not have them either.
Durability of Materials: We are using a BASF engineered resin that has UV inhibitors built into the mix. The thickness of our piece is approximately the same as the factory glass or even thicker in areas, hence why it needs to be injection molded on a large (300 ton) press at over 500 degrees rather than vacuum formed like an R/C car body. Given also that it is smoke tinted rather than clear, and the UV resistance goes up, further enhancing the life of the part. We expect it to last as long as the car, given normal maintenance and care. Like our honeycomb panel and billet products, we do not look for customers to need to be replacing our parts every couple years - we expect that once you buy our parts, only an accident will require you to buy them again (and yes, we've had that come up ! )
Other than that, all I can say is that like other parts we manufacture right here in the USA, we only offer to make things I'd put on my own car. If I'm not happy with it, I can't expect our customers to be either. So when this is done, and I'm happy with it, that's when we will release it for production and to our pre-order customers. Simple rule that works well for us as a company.
10/17/06, 09:31 PM
#486
Sure you are...
Didn't I mention the pre-order just ended?
JUST KIDDING!!
It should be on for at least another few weeks, so not a big rush - yet...
Of course I have to ask, why the fence sitting? Is there something in the design that doesn't "do it" for you, or are you just waiting to see it go to production? We're "pot committed" in poker parlance to this, so it's got the green light all the way to completion now. The finished piece is going to look 95% like the prototype, and the 5% it's not really makes it better, not worse.
Didn't I mention the pre-order just ended?
JUST KIDDING!!
It should be on for at least another few weeks, so not a big rush - yet...
Of course I have to ask, why the fence sitting? Is there something in the design that doesn't "do it" for you, or are you just waiting to see it go to production? We're "pot committed" in poker parlance to this, so it's got the green light all the way to completion now. The finished piece is going to look 95% like the prototype, and the 5% it's not really makes it better, not worse.
10/17/06, 09:37 PM
#487
Cobra Member
I really like the design, I do have one question though. Why don't the slats go closer to the edge more like the louvers on the 65/66? Is it a stuctural thing?
-danny
-danny
Sure you are...
Didn't I mention the pre-order just ended?
JUST KIDDING!!
It should be on for at least another few weeks, so not a big rush - yet...
Of course I have to ask, why the fence sitting? Is there something in the design that doesn't "do it" for you, or are you just waiting to see it go to production? We're "pot committed" in poker parlance to this, so it's got the green light all the way to completion now. The finished piece is going to look 95% like the prototype, and the 5% it's not really makes it better, not worse.
Didn't I mention the pre-order just ended?
JUST KIDDING!!
It should be on for at least another few weeks, so not a big rush - yet...
Of course I have to ask, why the fence sitting? Is there something in the design that doesn't "do it" for you, or are you just waiting to see it go to production? We're "pot committed" in poker parlance to this, so it's got the green light all the way to completion now. The finished piece is going to look 95% like the prototype, and the 5% it's not really makes it better, not worse.
10/17/06, 09:44 PM
#488
Legacy TMS Member
Join Date: May 24, 2006
Location: San Diego
Posts: 7,409
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Sure you are...
Didn't I mention the pre-order just ended?
JUST KIDDING!!
It should be on for at least another few weeks, so not a big rush - yet...
Of course I have to ask, why the fence sitting? Is there something in the design that doesn't "do it" for you, or are you just waiting to see it go to production? We're "pot committed" in poker parlance to this, so it's got the green light all the way to completion now. The finished piece is going to look 95% like the prototype, and the 5% it's not really makes it better, not worse.
Didn't I mention the pre-order just ended?
JUST KIDDING!!
It should be on for at least another few weeks, so not a big rush - yet...
Of course I have to ask, why the fence sitting? Is there something in the design that doesn't "do it" for you, or are you just waiting to see it go to production? We're "pot committed" in poker parlance to this, so it's got the green light all the way to completion now. The finished piece is going to look 95% like the prototype, and the 5% it's not really makes it better, not worse.
10/17/06, 09:49 PM
#489
Well, the interior can be covered for under 15.00 in material if you're willing to do it yourself, it probably won't be too much more when we get around to offering it as a product for those that don't care about the visibility.
Exactly. They are as large as possible without requiring cutting of the sheetmetal. You have to work within the confines of the factory opening, and we do that, with only about .150" or less to spare. That's why we had an OEM quarter panel and glass here back when we were in the early design stages.
I really like the design, I do have one question though. Why don't the slats go closer to the edge more like the louvers on the 65/66? Is it a stuctural thing?
10/17/06, 09:53 PM
#490
Cobra Member
Exactly. They are as large as possible without requiring cutting of the sheetmetal. You have to work within the confines of the factory opening, and we do that, with only about .150" or less to spare. That's why we had an OEM quarter panel and glass here back when we were in the early design stages.
-danny
10/17/06, 10:41 PM
#491
Danny,
I know you're on the list, thanks - I remember when you got on a while back.
What I'm saying is that we had the whole setup here, and the vent height and overall width is as large as absolutely possible while not requiring any sheetmetal or interior panel modification. If we just said the heck with the interior panels, you could gain maybe .350" or so, but it wasn't worth it, because then you'd need to come up with something for the interior, which would drive cost up to even more. And the trade-off in appearance wasn't worth that. To go the complete 65-66 route, you'd need to cut out most of the sheetmetal in the area, which is spot-welded and all - not something most people would want to do, nor something I'd recommend.
To look at it another way - the blackout area on the factory glass - that area is all off-limits due to the sheetmetal and interior. So the only area you can use for the vents is the actual transparent area of the glass. Period. And when I wanted to move past it, even a little bit, I had to deal with changing everything around it. Maybe good for a one-off SEMA car, but not good for a production piece that I hope many people will attempt to install themselves.
Does that help out any in visualizing what we have to work around?
I know you're on the list, thanks - I remember when you got on a while back.
What I'm saying is that we had the whole setup here, and the vent height and overall width is as large as absolutely possible while not requiring any sheetmetal or interior panel modification. If we just said the heck with the interior panels, you could gain maybe .350" or so, but it wasn't worth it, because then you'd need to come up with something for the interior, which would drive cost up to even more. And the trade-off in appearance wasn't worth that. To go the complete 65-66 route, you'd need to cut out most of the sheetmetal in the area, which is spot-welded and all - not something most people would want to do, nor something I'd recommend.
To look at it another way - the blackout area on the factory glass - that area is all off-limits due to the sheetmetal and interior. So the only area you can use for the vents is the actual transparent area of the glass. Period. And when I wanted to move past it, even a little bit, I had to deal with changing everything around it. Maybe good for a one-off SEMA car, but not good for a production piece that I hope many people will attempt to install themselves.
Does that help out any in visualizing what we have to work around?
10/18/06, 07:16 AM
#492
Bullitt Member
Join Date: September 25, 2006
Posts: 397
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hi Marcello,
You stated that the interior could be covered with about $15.00 of materials. Could you show us a picture of what this would look like? Or could you show us a concept of what you have in mind to deal with the interior in the future?
Thanks!
Mark
You stated that the interior could be covered with about $15.00 of materials. Could you show us a picture of what this would look like? Or could you show us a concept of what you have in mind to deal with the interior in the future?
Thanks!
Mark
10/18/06, 07:36 AM
#493
Cobra Member
That second picture makes it more clear as to why they're the size they are. Thanks for clueing me in 
Still looking for a November release on these?
-danny
Still looking for a November release on these?
-danny
Danny,
I know you're on the list, thanks - I remember when you got on a while back.
What I'm saying is that we had the whole setup here, and the vent height and overall width is as large as absolutely possible while not requiring any sheetmetal or interior panel modification. If we just said the heck with the interior panels, you could gain maybe .350" or so, but it wasn't worth it, because then you'd need to come up with something for the interior, which would drive cost up to even more. And the trade-off in appearance wasn't worth that. To go the complete 65-66 route, you'd need to cut out most of the sheetmetal in the area, which is spot-welded and all - not something most people would want to do, nor something I'd recommend.
To look at it another way - the blackout area on the factory glass - that area is all off-limits due to the sheetmetal and interior. So the only area you can use for the vents is the actual transparent area of the glass. Period. And when I wanted to move past it, even a little bit, I had to deal with changing everything around it. Maybe good for a one-off SEMA car, but not good for a production piece that I hope many people will attempt to install themselves.
Does that help out any in visualizing what we have to work around?
I know you're on the list, thanks - I remember when you got on a while back.
What I'm saying is that we had the whole setup here, and the vent height and overall width is as large as absolutely possible while not requiring any sheetmetal or interior panel modification. If we just said the heck with the interior panels, you could gain maybe .350" or so, but it wasn't worth it, because then you'd need to come up with something for the interior, which would drive cost up to even more. And the trade-off in appearance wasn't worth that. To go the complete 65-66 route, you'd need to cut out most of the sheetmetal in the area, which is spot-welded and all - not something most people would want to do, nor something I'd recommend.
To look at it another way - the blackout area on the factory glass - that area is all off-limits due to the sheetmetal and interior. So the only area you can use for the vents is the actual transparent area of the glass. Period. And when I wanted to move past it, even a little bit, I had to deal with changing everything around it. Maybe good for a one-off SEMA car, but not good for a production piece that I hope many people will attempt to install themselves.
Does that help out any in visualizing what we have to work around?
10/18/06, 08:03 AM
#495
End of November / beginning of December, pretty much where we've been all along. Plates are being machined now, they got behind, but started back on them Monday.
On the interior trim - Think headliner trim over backing board that is shaped like a "triangular five-sided box". It will sink into the the quarter panel opening, and wedge around the window. Doing it flat would be cheaper, but I don't see a way to "trim out" the edges, hence why the folds back into the recess area.
On the interior trim - Think headliner trim over backing board that is shaped like a "triangular five-sided box". It will sink into the the quarter panel opening, and wedge around the window. Doing it flat would be cheaper, but I don't see a way to "trim out" the edges, hence why the folds back into the recess area.
11/4/06, 08:05 PM
#497
legacy Tms Member
bump...
wow- over a week with no hits to this thread- kinda thought it might 'wake up' as production gets closer.
Marcello-
are the initial shipments going to come with the precut vinyl painting masks talked about a while back? if so, will there be enough to mask inside and out- just in case the paint shows thru to the inside, thinking about semiglossing the inside except for the 'window' areas...
On the interior finishing discussions above, for those that might just want to cover them over- my old 85 camaro's headliner kind of disintegrated after about 15 yrs- I recovered it with heavy black felt (just used 3M '77' spray adhesive to attach it to the fiberglass) and it turned out looking as good as it ever did- I think the extra thickness might help at keeping it smooth and possibly filling in any edge gaps...think I got it at wallmarts fabric dept, wasnt expensive...
wow- over a week with no hits to this thread- kinda thought it might 'wake up' as production gets closer.
Marcello-
are the initial shipments going to come with the precut vinyl painting masks talked about a while back? if so, will there be enough to mask inside and out- just in case the paint shows thru to the inside, thinking about semiglossing the inside except for the 'window' areas...
On the interior finishing discussions above, for those that might just want to cover them over- my old 85 camaro's headliner kind of disintegrated after about 15 yrs- I recovered it with heavy black felt (just used 3M '77' spray adhesive to attach it to the fiberglass) and it turned out looking as good as it ever did- I think the extra thickness might help at keeping it smooth and possibly filling in any edge gaps...think I got it at wallmarts fabric dept, wasnt expensive...
11/6/06, 07:36 AM
#498
Ok, let's try typing this again... (it "lost" my last post)
We're still looking at offering paint masks for the exterior, but didn't feel the need to send out interior masks as well, since it would be easy to mask that side with regular tape. As always though, if you want an extra set, we're just a phone call or email away, things like that we normally will send out n/c to our customers if they ask for it.
I have to ask though, what do you mean by semi-gloss? The inside of the part (aside fromt he viewing areas) will be a bead-blast etched finish, so between the opacity of the finish, the paint (if painted) and the smoke tint, it's going to be pretty subdued already inside the car - guess I'm just saying it might not be required to do anything with the inside unless you're looking to go a different route with it, that's all.
As to updates - I've learned not to rush the guys at this point. They are working and giving me minor updates, mostly we're waiting for the backing plates to arrive from the supplier, and we can move forward with mating them to the molds where needed. They are well aware of our intended delivery schedule, but it is looking to be another busy holiday season for us here (honeycomb panel started shipping first week of December last year...)
Other than that, things are going forward as planned, no bumps in the road lately.
We're still looking at offering paint masks for the exterior, but didn't feel the need to send out interior masks as well, since it would be easy to mask that side with regular tape. As always though, if you want an extra set, we're just a phone call or email away, things like that we normally will send out n/c to our customers if they ask for it.
I have to ask though, what do you mean by semi-gloss? The inside of the part (aside fromt he viewing areas) will be a bead-blast etched finish, so between the opacity of the finish, the paint (if painted) and the smoke tint, it's going to be pretty subdued already inside the car - guess I'm just saying it might not be required to do anything with the inside unless you're looking to go a different route with it, that's all.
As to updates - I've learned not to rush the guys at this point. They are working and giving me minor updates, mostly we're waiting for the backing plates to arrive from the supplier, and we can move forward with mating them to the molds where needed. They are well aware of our intended delivery schedule, but it is looking to be another busy holiday season for us here (honeycomb panel started shipping first week of December last year...)
Other than that, things are going forward as planned, no bumps in the road lately.
11/6/06, 05:02 PM
#500
legacy Tms Member
Ok, let's try typing this again... (it "lost" my last post)
We're still looking at offering paint masks for the exterior, but didn't feel the need to send out interior masks as well, since it would be easy to mask that side with regular tape. As always though, if you want an extra set, we're just a phone call or email away, things like that we normally will send out n/c to our customers if they ask for it.
I have to ask though, what do you mean by semi-gloss? The inside of the part (aside fromt he viewing areas) will be a bead-blast etched finish, so between the opacity of the finish, the paint (if painted) and the smoke tint, it's going to be pretty subdued already inside the car - guess I'm just saying it might not be required to do anything with the inside unless you're looking to go a different route with it, that's all.
As to updates - I've learned not to rush the guys at this point. They are working and giving me minor updates, mostly we're waiting for the backing plates to arrive from the supplier, and we can move forward with mating them to the molds where needed. They are well aware of our intended delivery schedule, but it is looking to be another busy holiday season for us here (honeycomb panel started shipping first week of December last year...)
Other than that, things are going forward as planned, no bumps in the road lately.
We're still looking at offering paint masks for the exterior, but didn't feel the need to send out interior masks as well, since it would be easy to mask that side with regular tape. As always though, if you want an extra set, we're just a phone call or email away, things like that we normally will send out n/c to our customers if they ask for it.
I have to ask though, what do you mean by semi-gloss? The inside of the part (aside fromt he viewing areas) will be a bead-blast etched finish, so between the opacity of the finish, the paint (if painted) and the smoke tint, it's going to be pretty subdued already inside the car - guess I'm just saying it might not be required to do anything with the inside unless you're looking to go a different route with it, that's all.
As to updates - I've learned not to rush the guys at this point. They are working and giving me minor updates, mostly we're waiting for the backing plates to arrive from the supplier, and we can move forward with mating them to the molds where needed. They are well aware of our intended delivery schedule, but it is looking to be another busy holiday season for us here (honeycomb panel started shipping first week of December last year...)
Other than that, things are going forward as planned, no bumps in the road lately.
Ahhh...I musta missed the part about beadblasted finish other than the 'windows'...I dont know if the recommended primer would come in black- if so, the outside paint would take care of the inside too...and thinking about it, no paint inside would probably be better for the urethane adhesive anyways- and no need for any masking inside at all...to any paint gurus out there- would it be wise to put a coat of that greenish-gray primer over 'whatever' first coat primer? was wondering if primer color under basecoat would affect final color(my car is vista blue) or if the basecoat is opaque enough that it would have no effect either way...
thanks again for the info- cant wait to lose those quarter windows