Louver replacement for quarter window glass
5/8/07, 09:31 PM
#1342
one last tidbit- if you want the 'flush' look, I measured the setting blocks in mine tonight- they are .200 tall. I used the OEM rubber blocks that popped out intact when I cut the glass out, and cut into strips, stuck back on in the three corners...louvers sat nice and flush- hopefully they will again in a couple days
.
.
Also, what should you prep the lexan with before the promoter? Anybody have any tips on using the promoter and getting the louvers to sit flush and even gapped all the way around.
Thanks Dave
5/9/07, 02:52 PM
#1344
legacy Tms Member
the 'setting blocks' are self adhesive rubber bumpers the factory uses to support windows/windshields, etc at installation to keep them from sliding down or sinking in the soft urethane...on our 1/4 windows they use the 2 pins to locate(centering) and support the weight, with a couple rubber setting blocks to hold the 'depth'...when I cut mine out, the rubber blocks popped out as I was cutting, adhesive intact even- wether thats the norm, or just dumb luck, who knows...but anyhow I just cut the blocks into smaller strips to have enough for 3 per side. I measured them yesterday just because I forgot to when I put them in, but my blocks were right around 5mm or .200" thick, and I would have to guess that is pretty consistent for any S197...if block adhesive is loose, just get some double sided scotch tape- if blocks not intact, maybe cut some out of any soft rubber- or better yet see if local glass shops will sell you a couple cheep in the right thickness...size dont matter, just there to hold the depth- mine were cut down to only like 1/8~3/16 wide but I wouldnt worry about it, as the adhesive does all the work, and the smaller the block, tho more adhesive area...just run extra bead around the block to hold it in place once it cures- although factory adhesive on mine just ran beside it...also with the blocks in, its real easy to test fit and see exactly how its gonna set without any urethane making a mess...I taped mine as I wanted them to set, then put a guide tape on the roof to line that tape with so I dropped in centered without having to slide it around...
as far as adhesion promoter- I'll just have to read the instructions this time around
as far as adhesion promoter- I'll just have to read the instructions this time around
5/9/07, 06:38 PM
#1345
Just ordered my pre-painted Mineral Grey louvers! I'll be sure to visit this thread for a billion and one install tips!! 
5/9/07, 08:20 PM
#1346
V6 Member
Join Date: December 19, 2005
Posts: 74
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
well friday I found out why adhesion promoter is needed for lexan...I guess its not suggested, but REQUIRED heard a air leak on the way home friday(car sat in hot sun all day- was a oven inside) checked and rear 1/3 of passenger louver was loose, checked drivers side, front was loose...was fine at car wash couple days prior, expansion musta finally tugged them loose...managed to pull them out undamaged(stuck pretty tight rest of the way around, but peeled clean)...called local 3M dealers, no one stocks the 'one step primer/adhesion promoter'...so it was Marcello to the rescue once again
I had one of the first few installed sets(second or third I think), painted myself, installed at home in a barely warm garage, they held tight till a good hot day in the sun months later- just wanted to toss this out there- if you install yourself, you MUST use adhesion promoter...scuffing,wax/grease remover, laquer thinner, whatever might get it clean enough to paint, but the urethane needs more...I guess the primer does something extra to the surface that lets the urethane 'bite' so it will not peel off clean...live and learn. heard of another set that came loose within a week due to no promoter too. Learn from our mistakes and follow the directions- guess they are there for a reason
Anyone that had theirs installed, or will be- verify that promoter is used- if not you'll know sooner or later. press around a bit once in a while to keep tabs on the adhesion. with the promoter, this should never be an issue though.
one last tidbit- if you want the 'flush' look, I measured the setting blocks in mine tonight- they are .200 tall. I used the OEM rubber blocks that popped out intact when I cut the glass out, and cut into strips, stuck back on in the three corners...louvers sat nice and flush- hopefully they will again in a couple days
still hope to see Ford offering these as OEM option sometime soon, they look so 'right at home', they dont look like a modification, but more like an intended original part of the car...
heard a air leak on the way home friday(car sat in hot sun all day- was a oven inside) checked and rear 1/3 of passenger louver was loose, checked drivers side, front was loose...was fine at car wash couple days prior, expansion musta finally tugged them loose...managed to pull them out undamaged(stuck pretty tight rest of the way around, but peeled clean)...called local 3M dealers, no one stocks the 'one step primer/adhesion promoter'...so it was Marcello to the rescue once again I had one of the first few installed sets(second or third I think), painted myself, installed at home in a barely warm garage, they held tight till a good hot day in the sun months later- just wanted to toss this out there- if you install yourself, you MUST use adhesion promoter...scuffing,wax/grease remover, laquer thinner, whatever might get it clean enough to paint, but the urethane needs more...I guess the primer does something extra to the surface that lets the urethane 'bite' so it will not peel off clean...live and learn. heard of another set that came loose within a week due to no promoter too. Learn from our mistakes and follow the directions- guess they are there for a reason
Anyone that had theirs installed, or will be- verify that promoter is used- if not you'll know sooner or later. press around a bit once in a while to keep tabs on the adhesion. with the promoter, this should never be an issue though.
one last tidbit- if you want the 'flush' look, I measured the setting blocks in mine tonight- they are .200 tall. I used the OEM rubber blocks that popped out intact when I cut the glass out, and cut into strips, stuck back on in the three corners...louvers sat nice and flush- hopefully they will again in a couple days
still hope to see Ford offering these as OEM option sometime soon, they look so 'right at home', they dont look like a modification, but more like an intended original part of the car...
Opps!
I missed that adhesion promotor part! Checked mine when i got to work, cause i noticed some whistle on the right louver, and what do you know.... mines coming loose! Can anyone guess what I will be doing this weekend???? Kenneth
5/10/07, 09:05 PM
#1348
Yeah, the adhesion promoter is VERY important - one of our guys just had a mobile shop come replace a windshield for him, guess what... adhesion promoter first before they laid the new glass in. It's a problem with the way the urethane bonds to things from what I understand, hence why everyone who has had an issue has had a "clean" break away from the urethane bead.
As to will it come loose without it... possibly, but it depends on a lot of factors, and so it's hard to say when or if it will. I'm going to go update the website right now with the adhesion promoter as an "active" button for sale - up until now it has been listed, but you had to call in to get it included in the order at an additional 12.95. 3M is "proud" of this stuff - we really aren't making anything on this, just offering it to help make it so you don't have to track it down locally.
As to flush mount tips - it's now in the instructions, but cutting an inverted "V" in the dispenser tip helps to build a taller, narrower bead that doesn't "squish out" so much when installing the louvers, thus letting you put more pressure on them initially and insuring a leak-free fit.
Other than that, it's just eyeballing the install to get the height where you want it. I actually like mine ~1/8" (.125) inset from the surface, as that helps them to "catch" the radius in the sheet metal, but that's just me.
As to will it come loose without it... possibly, but it depends on a lot of factors, and so it's hard to say when or if it will. I'm going to go update the website right now with the adhesion promoter as an "active" button for sale - up until now it has been listed, but you had to call in to get it included in the order at an additional 12.95. 3M is "proud" of this stuff - we really aren't making anything on this, just offering it to help make it so you don't have to track it down locally.
As to flush mount tips - it's now in the instructions, but cutting an inverted "V" in the dispenser tip helps to build a taller, narrower bead that doesn't "squish out" so much when installing the louvers, thus letting you put more pressure on them initially and insuring a leak-free fit.
Other than that, it's just eyeballing the install to get the height where you want it. I actually like mine ~1/8" (.125) inset from the surface, as that helps them to "catch" the radius in the sheet metal, but that's just me.
5/10/07, 10:29 PM
#1349
Marcello, would it be possible to have the Adhesion Promoter added to my order? I emailed you a copy of my reciept from last night.
Thanks
Thanks
5/11/07, 05:25 PM
#1350
legacy Tms Member
when I painted mine(couldnt wait for prepaint- too impatient) I got quite a bit of dust in the paint(used the booth at work on a sunday, but still- its a machine shop, lots of dust)...so after the adhesive came loose from my not following instructions, I figured it would be a good time to finally wetsand/buff them out...but i'm no painter- too thin on the clear in a few spots, and ruined the paint...not like wetsanding a car
So, rather than try repainting again, went ahead and reordered another set in prepaint, so next time they go in they'll be pretty up real close too- funny everyone that saw these said how great they looked- they looked so good even my marginal paint was hidden oh well, at least maybe at the car meets this summer now I wont have anything to be ashamed of...funny- the wife didnt even mind when i said I was gonna reorder- think she likes them too
Ford really needs to offer these from the factory...
So, rather than try repainting again, went ahead and reordered another set in prepaint, so next time they go in they'll be pretty up real close too- funny everyone that saw these said how great they looked- they looked so good even my marginal paint was hidden
oh well, at least maybe at the car meets this summer now I wont have anything to be ashamed of...funny- the wife didnt even mind when i said I was gonna reorder- think she likes them too Ford really needs to offer these from the factory...
5/12/07, 01:43 AM
#1351
Shelby GT500 Member
Join Date: April 25, 2007
Location: Kansas City, MO
Posts: 2,955
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes
on
2 Posts
I know I had a few phone calls with Marcello when my GT was in the bodyshop and have to admit his painter/shop done an excellent job matching G9 without my car being in his shop.
5/12/07, 10:12 AM
#1352
Cobra R Member
Join Date: November 12, 2004
Posts: 1,914
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
"As to flush mount tips - it's now in the instructions, but cutting an inverted "V" in the dispenser tip helps to build a taller, narrower bead that doesn't "squish out" so much when installing the louvers, thus letting you put more pressure on them initially and insuring a leak-free fit"
Marcello I looked on your site for updated instructions in regards to the rubber spacers and flush fit etc, and have not found anything in the instructions in regards to what you said for the inverted v stuff etc, do you have the new instructions up or would you send me a new installation sheet in my email etc. Thanks for any info, trying to get these done soon now that we have some nice weather. Thanks
Marcello I looked on your site for updated instructions in regards to the rubber spacers and flush fit etc, and have not found anything in the instructions in regards to what you said for the inverted v stuff etc, do you have the new instructions up or would you send me a new installation sheet in my email etc. Thanks for any info, trying to get these done soon now that we have some nice weather. Thanks
5/12/07, 10:20 AM
#1353
legacy Tms Member
my color came out pretty close as metallics go, and I was content with my masking, but man did I get a lot of dust in the paint...and masking took HOURS of tedious time...didnt think worth the effort to try again as no time, and now that prepaints are about caught up, shouldnt be much of a delay to just wait for a perfect set- And I'm sure anything they ship out prepainted will be 1000 times better than anything I could ever do, figured rather than try repainting just bite the bullet and get a professionally painted set...even with the short 'life' of the first set (all from my own doing) I'm still 100% happy with these things- always hated the 1/4 glass, originally was going to weld them over/repaint/put 69 emblems there, but sooooo glad i didnt...these are the PERFECT match to this body style and SHR's quality is the best out there from all Ive heard and read on these and everything else they sell. woulda cost a coupleK to weld/repaint/emblem, then I woulda regretted it whenever these came out- especially at a fraction of the cost/surgery req'd to weld and paint on a new car...
I know one thing, Ford could sure be talking to SHR for some option ideas- they definitely have the 'mustang look' deeply rooted in their designs...cant wait to get the new set in- going thru 'mustang withdrawl' with this nice weather and stuck driving the old windstar
5/13/07, 02:14 AM
#1354
Shelby GT500 Member
Join Date: April 25, 2007
Location: Kansas City, MO
Posts: 2,955
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes
on
2 Posts
ford4v429 - "mustang withdrawal?" Is it raining in Ohio, get that pony and take a spin. You may be missing a couple windows but don't let this get ya down!
5/13/07, 07:38 AM
#1355
legacy Tms Member
no rain- just no rear windows is too ugly
besides, my car just dont look 'right' without those cool louvers...I'll wait
5/14/07, 08:51 PM
#1356
V6 Member
Join Date: December 19, 2005
Posts: 74
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
This is getting old! used adhesion promotor, Duplicolor brand, as i cant find any 3m, reinstalled the louver on saturday. This morning i went to get in the car after it sitting in the sun for 2 hours, shut the door, and the **** thing fell right off! I sure hope 3rd try is a charm.
Kenneth
5/14/07, 09:06 PM
#1357
legacy Tms Member
This is getting old! used adhesion promotor, Duplicolor brand, as i cant find any 3m, reinstalled the louver on saturday. This morning i went to get in the car after it sitting in the sun for 2 hours, shut the door, and the **** thing fell right off! I sure hope 3rd try is a charm.
Kenneth
Kenneth
the stuff SHR stocks is 3M number 08682, and is for 08690 urethane...3M has MANY different promoters, and at least several grades of urethane- kinda specialized plastic=kinda specialized adhesives I guess...as I recall a hundred pages or so up in this thread, I think Marcello mentioned talking to 3M about specifics long ago before production started to get the proper stuff for polycarbonates, and this was what they specifically recommended...
I know from painting model helicopter canopies, many paints(duplicolor maybe included) will just curl up in the sun as the plastic expands...pactra makes a special polycarbonate paint that you cant scrape off...apparently has a solvent that melts into the polycarbonate surface and becomes part of it- assume the 3m 08682 is very similar in this regard- and if these ever need removed after a using the proper stuff, I'd expect it would NOT peel off at all, and require wire cutting like the factory glass(which also requires a type of promoter now that outer edges are painted black on most cars to hide the adhesive line).
also- the urethane is 'moisture cured'- if low humidity, please dont slam the doors with windows up for a few days
when it popped out was the urethane still gooey?
5/14/07, 09:26 PM
#1358
Well, pretty much what he said
That all said though, if you want give me a call tomorrow at the shop and we'll discuss what's happened to you here and what the course of action can / should be to get you back on track. You shouldn't be having these problems, and I'd like to know the specifics of your case so if someone ends up with your same circumstances in the future, we can help solve their problem as well.
That all said though, if you want give me a call tomorrow at the shop and we'll discuss what's happened to you here and what the course of action can / should be to get you back on track. You shouldn't be having these problems, and I'd like to know the specifics of your case so if someone ends up with your same circumstances in the future, we can help solve their problem as well.
5/14/07, 10:20 PM
#1359
I lust for a M24
Join Date: November 6, 2004
Location: Football HOF, Canton OH
Posts: 7,045
Likes: 0
Received 4 Likes
on
4 Posts
This is getting old! used adhesion promotor, Duplicolor brand, as i cant find any 3m, reinstalled the louver on saturday. This morning i went to get in the car after it sitting in the sun for 2 hours, shut the door, and the **** thing fell right off! I sure hope 3rd try is a charm.
Kenneth
Kenneth
5/14/07, 11:06 PM
#1360
V6 Member
Join Date: December 19, 2005
Posts: 74
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Duplicolor? Like adhesion promoter that lets paint stick to plastic? 2 hrs isn't quite long enough, and I'd wait a couple days before 'slamming' the door. I'd let it sit overnight at a minimum, with the windows cracked. Then, I'd check in the morning for movement and close the doors very gently (preferrably with the windows down) for the next couple of days. Good luck, I'm sure SHR will get you back on track.
Thank you all, Im a *******! I looked and thought adhesion promotor, was adhesion promotor, i didnt know there were so many different kinds. The adhesive was set to cure for 1 day, i had already had 30 miles on the car, i spent the morning washing the car real well, and then went for a drive, to a friends, at the lake, when i went to leave for work, i heard something fall when i shut the door, first thought was that someone put a pop can on my car and it fell, until i turned around and saw the opening. Im just glad it wasnt going to rain today, as i had 15 minutes to get to work, and my house was 15 minutes away. Im going go to SHR's website, and buy the promotor right now. Funny thing is, i cant for the life of me get the other louver off, without promotor, and i dont wish to cut it. Im constantly checking it too.
Kenneth