Midwest TMS'ers General Communication Thread
3/15/08, 04:56 AM
#2901
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Scott, I'm sorry to hear about the down swing at your work! in fact Tom and your comments are what inspired my latest avatar! Job pressures and the economy are the reason I took a buy out from Boeing Aircraft in 2001.....I took a year and a half off, I didn't do anything but travel...Then moved back to my home town . I have been to Marco Island a few times it is beautiful!......A little sand between the toes and rum in the belly always helps, its worked for Jimmy Buffet for years......
Hey I don't want to boo hoo about work to much. We have been slow in years past and have always pulled it out. But the way this economy is headed all of the manufacturers of new products seem to be in a wait and see attitude about releasing new projects to be tooled up. This past week we had to reduce some guys hours to 32hrs. And these guys are used to working 50-60 hrs week. And a program I have been working on with a stamper in Connerville Ind. since early January fell thru. The project ended up going overseas to be tooled. Just a bummer of a week.
3/15/08, 05:12 AM
#2902
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Hey I don't want to boo hoo about work to much. We have been slow in years past and have always pulled it out. But the way this economy is headed all of the manufacturers of new products seem to be in a wait and see attitude about releasing new projects to be tooled up. This past week we had to reduce some guys hours to 32hrs. And these guys are used to working 50-60 hrs week. And a program I have been working on with a stamper in Connerville Ind. since early January fell thru. The project ended up going overseas to be tooled. Just a bummer of a week.
3/15/08, 05:18 AM
#2903
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Thread Starter
3/15/08, 05:41 AM
#2905
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It been a couple of years since we had been to Marco Island. It is generally inhabited by retirees. But as I remember you can usually see a thong or two while there. Good thing for dark sunglasses so the wife can't really see what direction my eyes are looking.
3/15/08, 05:49 AM
#2906
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Need your help
Good morning Gentlemen,
This is Robert from shaftmasters. As you know I haven't been on this thread for awhile now. At times I don't feel like I belong on here since I only sell a product for Mustangs but don't actually own one. Like I am guessing is the case with some of your wifes, my wife is getting to hate Mustangs. She gets tired of hearing me talk about our Mustang shaft. If I don't hear her say something(selective hearing) she may yell at me, "Did you hear me or are you thinking about that **** Mustang driveshaft". Anyway I could use all of your help and opinions on a subject. Up until recently we haven't delved into pinion angles on the Mustangs much because we haven't had any complaints from any of our customers. I have read on many different forums that conventional wisdom was to set the angle on the face of the pinion flange/adapter plate to minus 2 degrees. This has always puzzled me because I was always told that you never want the pinion pointing down towards the ground. Recently some of you may have noticed that a forum member named Jared has had vibration problems and has tried 6 different driveshafts with ours being the most recent. Although he says that ours has been better than the best of the rest, he still is experiencing a vibration over 90 mph. On a thread he started on Modular fords seeking help a member comes on and says that he has a Coast driveshaft and was experiencing a vibration. After he consulted with Coast he was told to set the pinion flange at positive 2.7 degrees which sounds more logical to us but defies conventional wisdom. We took our digital angle finder and did some measuring on David's GMC truck. When we placed the angle finder on his pinion yoke from the driver's side of the vehicle it measured positive 3 degrees, pointing up toward the floorpan. If we measured it from the passenger side it measured minus 3 degrees. My question to you guys is this. Is your pinion flange/adapter pointing up towards the floorpan or down towards the ground. If you have measured the angle at the face of the flange/adapter plate what did you come up with and from which side of the vehicle did you measure from? Your help will be greatly appreciated.
Robert
This is Robert from shaftmasters. As you know I haven't been on this thread for awhile now. At times I don't feel like I belong on here since I only sell a product for Mustangs but don't actually own one. Like I am guessing is the case with some of your wifes, my wife is getting to hate Mustangs. She gets tired of hearing me talk about our Mustang shaft. If I don't hear her say something(selective hearing) she may yell at me, "Did you hear me or are you thinking about that **** Mustang driveshaft". Anyway I could use all of your help and opinions on a subject. Up until recently we haven't delved into pinion angles on the Mustangs much because we haven't had any complaints from any of our customers. I have read on many different forums that conventional wisdom was to set the angle on the face of the pinion flange/adapter plate to minus 2 degrees. This has always puzzled me because I was always told that you never want the pinion pointing down towards the ground. Recently some of you may have noticed that a forum member named Jared has had vibration problems and has tried 6 different driveshafts with ours being the most recent. Although he says that ours has been better than the best of the rest, he still is experiencing a vibration over 90 mph. On a thread he started on Modular fords seeking help a member comes on and says that he has a Coast driveshaft and was experiencing a vibration. After he consulted with Coast he was told to set the pinion flange at positive 2.7 degrees which sounds more logical to us but defies conventional wisdom. We took our digital angle finder and did some measuring on David's GMC truck. When we placed the angle finder on his pinion yoke from the driver's side of the vehicle it measured positive 3 degrees, pointing up toward the floorpan. If we measured it from the passenger side it measured minus 3 degrees. My question to you guys is this. Is your pinion flange/adapter pointing up towards the floorpan or down towards the ground. If you have measured the angle at the face of the flange/adapter plate what did you come up with and from which side of the vehicle did you measure from? Your help will be greatly appreciated.
Robert
3/15/08, 05:59 AM
#2907
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Good morning Gentlemen,
This is Robert from shaftmasters. As you know I haven't been on this thread for awhile now. At times I don't feel like I belong on here since I only sell a product for Mustangs but don't actually own one. Like I am guessing is the case with some of your wifes, my wife is getting to hate Mustangs. She gets tired of hearing me talk about our Mustang shaft. If I don't hear her say something(selective hearing) she may yell at me, "Did you hear me or are you thinking about that **** Mustang driveshaft". Anyway I could use all of your help and opinions on a subject. Up until recently we haven't delved into pinion angles on the Mustangs much because we haven't had any complaints from any of our customers. I have read on many different forums that conventional wisdom was to set the angle on the face of the pinion flange/adapter plate to minus 2 degrees. This has always puzzled me because I was always told that you never want the pinion pointing down towards the ground. Recently some of you may have noticed that a forum member named Jared has had vibration problems and has tried 6 different driveshafts with ours being the most recent. Although he says that ours has been better than the best of the rest, he still is experiencing a vibration over 90 mph. On a thread he started on Modular fords seeking help a member comes on and says that he has a Coast driveshaft and was experiencing a vibration. After he consulted with Coast he was told to set the pinion flange at positive 2.7 degrees which sounds more logical to us but defies conventional wisdom. We took our digital angle finder and did some measuring on David's GMC truck. When we placed the angle finder on his pinion yoke from the driver's side of the vehicle it measured positive 3 degrees, pointing up toward the floorpan. If we measured it from the passenger side it measured minus 3 degrees. My question to you guys is this. Is your pinion flange/adapter pointing up towards the floorpan or down towards the ground. If you have measured the angle at the face of the flange/adapter plate what did you come up with and from which side of the vehicle did you measure from? Your help will be greatly appreciated.
Robert
This is Robert from shaftmasters. As you know I haven't been on this thread for awhile now. At times I don't feel like I belong on here since I only sell a product for Mustangs but don't actually own one. Like I am guessing is the case with some of your wifes, my wife is getting to hate Mustangs. She gets tired of hearing me talk about our Mustang shaft. If I don't hear her say something(selective hearing) she may yell at me, "Did you hear me or are you thinking about that **** Mustang driveshaft". Anyway I could use all of your help and opinions on a subject. Up until recently we haven't delved into pinion angles on the Mustangs much because we haven't had any complaints from any of our customers. I have read on many different forums that conventional wisdom was to set the angle on the face of the pinion flange/adapter plate to minus 2 degrees. This has always puzzled me because I was always told that you never want the pinion pointing down towards the ground. Recently some of you may have noticed that a forum member named Jared has had vibration problems and has tried 6 different driveshafts with ours being the most recent. Although he says that ours has been better than the best of the rest, he still is experiencing a vibration over 90 mph. On a thread he started on Modular fords seeking help a member comes on and says that he has a Coast driveshaft and was experiencing a vibration. After he consulted with Coast he was told to set the pinion flange at positive 2.7 degrees which sounds more logical to us but defies conventional wisdom. We took our digital angle finder and did some measuring on David's GMC truck. When we placed the angle finder on his pinion yoke from the driver's side of the vehicle it measured positive 3 degrees, pointing up toward the floorpan. If we measured it from the passenger side it measured minus 3 degrees. My question to you guys is this. Is your pinion flange/adapter pointing up towards the floorpan or down towards the ground. If you have measured the angle at the face of the flange/adapter plate what did you come up with and from which side of the vehicle did you measure from? Your help will be greatly appreciated.
Robert
3/15/08, 06:10 AM
#2908
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Thanks,
Robert
3/15/08, 06:16 AM
#2909
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Good morning Gentlemen,
This is Robert from shaftmasters. As you know I haven't been on this thread for awhile now. At times I don't feel like I belong on here since I only sell a product for Mustangs but don't actually own one. Like I am guessing is the case with some of your wifes, my wife is getting to hate Mustangs. She gets tired of hearing me talk about our Mustang shaft. If I don't hear her say something(selective hearing) she may yell at me, "Did you hear me or are you thinking about that **** Mustang driveshaft". Anyway I could use all of your help and opinions on a subject. Up until recently we haven't delved into pinion angles on the Mustangs much because we haven't had any complaints from any of our customers. I have read on many different forums that conventional wisdom was to set the angle on the face of the pinion flange/adapter plate to minus 2 degrees. This has always puzzled me because I was always told that you never want the pinion pointing down towards the ground. Recently some of you may have noticed that a forum member named Jared has had vibration problems and has tried 6 different driveshafts with ours being the most recent. Although he says that ours has been better than the best of the rest, he still is experiencing a vibration over 90 mph. On a thread he started on Modular fords seeking help a member comes on and says that he has a Coast driveshaft and was experiencing a vibration. After he consulted with Coast he was told to set the pinion flange at positive 2.7 degrees which sounds more logical to us but defies conventional wisdom. We took our digital angle finder and did some measuring on David's GMC truck. When we placed the angle finder on his pinion yoke from the driver's side of the vehicle it measured positive 3 degrees, pointing up toward the floorpan. If we measured it from the passenger side it measured minus 3 degrees. My question to you guys is this. Is your pinion flange/adapter pointing up towards the floorpan or down towards the ground. If you have measured the angle at the face of the flange/adapter plate what did you come up with and from which side of the vehicle did you measure from? Your help will be greatly appreciated.
Robert
This is Robert from shaftmasters. As you know I haven't been on this thread for awhile now. At times I don't feel like I belong on here since I only sell a product for Mustangs but don't actually own one. Like I am guessing is the case with some of your wifes, my wife is getting to hate Mustangs. She gets tired of hearing me talk about our Mustang shaft. If I don't hear her say something(selective hearing) she may yell at me, "Did you hear me or are you thinking about that **** Mustang driveshaft". Anyway I could use all of your help and opinions on a subject. Up until recently we haven't delved into pinion angles on the Mustangs much because we haven't had any complaints from any of our customers. I have read on many different forums that conventional wisdom was to set the angle on the face of the pinion flange/adapter plate to minus 2 degrees. This has always puzzled me because I was always told that you never want the pinion pointing down towards the ground. Recently some of you may have noticed that a forum member named Jared has had vibration problems and has tried 6 different driveshafts with ours being the most recent. Although he says that ours has been better than the best of the rest, he still is experiencing a vibration over 90 mph. On a thread he started on Modular fords seeking help a member comes on and says that he has a Coast driveshaft and was experiencing a vibration. After he consulted with Coast he was told to set the pinion flange at positive 2.7 degrees which sounds more logical to us but defies conventional wisdom. We took our digital angle finder and did some measuring on David's GMC truck. When we placed the angle finder on his pinion yoke from the driver's side of the vehicle it measured positive 3 degrees, pointing up toward the floorpan. If we measured it from the passenger side it measured minus 3 degrees. My question to you guys is this. Is your pinion flange/adapter pointing up towards the floorpan or down towards the ground. If you have measured the angle at the face of the flange/adapter plate what did you come up with and from which side of the vehicle did you measure from? Your help will be greatly appreciated.
Robert
Hi Robert,
I have read that thread about Jared and his 6 driveshafts. I also believe that his problem is not any of the driveshafts based on the post by Ron Lenord of Spydershaft last night. He knows what the real issue was but wants Jared to tell what they found. Anyway as far as your question goes to the proper pinion angle for our cars. I have always understood it should be 2 degrees negative while the car is at rest. This way when you are on a hard acceleration the rear axle will rotate upward slightly to the postive side. I know the guys that drag race set their cars up this way for the reasons I mentioned.
Scott
Last edited by 70MACH1OWNER; 3/15/08 at 06:45 AM.
3/15/08, 06:48 AM
#2910
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Hi Robert,
I have read that thread about Jared and his 6 driveshafts. I also believe that his problem is not any of the driveshafts based on the post by Ron Lenord of Spydershaft last night. He knows what the real issue was but wants Jared to tell what they found. Any way as far as your question goes to the proper pinion angle for our cars. I have always understood it should be 2 degrees negative while the car is at rest. This way when you are on a hard acceleration the rear axle will rotate upward slightly to the postive side. I know the guys that drag race set their cars up this way for the reasons I mentioned.
Scott
I have read that thread about Jared and his 6 driveshafts. I also believe that his problem is not any of the driveshafts based on the post by Ron Lenord of Spydershaft last night. He knows what the real issue was but wants Jared to tell what they found. Any way as far as your question goes to the proper pinion angle for our cars. I have always understood it should be 2 degrees negative while the car is at rest. This way when you are on a hard acceleration the rear axle will rotate upward slightly to the postive side. I know the guys that drag race set their cars up this way for the reasons I mentioned.
Scott
I spoke with Taco Bill yesterday about this. He had posted on one of his how-to threads that his pinion flange was at minus 1 degree. After questioning him as to which way his flange was pointing he said that it is definitely pointing up so he must be at positive one degree. He is running a Coast shaft with adapter plate and has no vibrations. Coast driveline is emphatic on their install instructions tha the pinion flange has to be pointing up 2.7 degrees or you WILL get a vibration over 90 mph. Taco Bill's own experience says different. We are just looking for as much info and real life experiences to determine what is the right approach. I quite often find that what works in theory doesn't always work in practice. As far as what Spyderman posted on Jared's thread last night I am a little confused about that. I spoke with Jared around 5 oclock yesterday about his problem and asked him some questions about his angles. He said he still had the vibration over 90 mph and would recheck his angles on Saturday. He never mentioned to me that he had solved his problem. Then I get home go on Brad Barnett and see Spyderman's post. Huh?
3/15/08, 06:57 AM
#2911
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Hi Scott,
I spoke with Taco Bill yesterday about this. He had posted on one of his how-to threads that his pinion flange was at minus 1 degree. After questioning him as to which way his flange was pointing he said that it is definitely pointing up so he must be at positive one degree. He is running a Coast shaft with adapter plate and has no vibrations. Coast driveline is emphatic on their install instructions tha the pinion flange has to be pointing up 2.7 degrees or you WILL get a vibration over 90 mph. Taco Bill's own experience says different. We are just looking for as much info and real life experiences to determine what is the right approach. I quite often find that what works in theory doesn't always work in practice. As far as what Spyderman posted on Jared's thread last night I am a little confused about that. I spoke with Jared around 5 oclock yesterday about his problem and asked him some questions about his angles. He said he still had the vibration over 90 mph and would recheck his angles on Saturday. He never mentioned to me that he had solved his problem. Then I get home go on Brad Barnett and see Spyderman's post. Huh?
I spoke with Taco Bill yesterday about this. He had posted on one of his how-to threads that his pinion flange was at minus 1 degree. After questioning him as to which way his flange was pointing he said that it is definitely pointing up so he must be at positive one degree. He is running a Coast shaft with adapter plate and has no vibrations. Coast driveline is emphatic on their install instructions tha the pinion flange has to be pointing up 2.7 degrees or you WILL get a vibration over 90 mph. Taco Bill's own experience says different. We are just looking for as much info and real life experiences to determine what is the right approach. I quite often find that what works in theory doesn't always work in practice. As far as what Spyderman posted on Jared's thread last night I am a little confused about that. I spoke with Jared around 5 oclock yesterday about his problem and asked him some questions about his angles. He said he still had the vibration over 90 mph and would recheck his angles on Saturday. He never mentioned to me that he had solved his problem. Then I get home go on Brad Barnett and see Spyderman's post. Huh?
Yeah...I am not sure what the real story is with Jared. The only thing I might add to my post above is that Tacobills car has been lowered. STD's is also lowered. I believe that changes the pinion angle. While I did not put an angle finder on my flange so I can't say for sure but my pinion angle visually appears to be on the negative side and my car is factory ride height. When you lower a car it changes the relationship of the lower control arms to the upper control mounting points. That will change the pinion angle. I believe you need to find out how the cars are set up from the factory first.
Last edited by 70MACH1OWNER; 3/15/08 at 07:00 AM.
3/15/08, 07:01 AM
#2912
To all you posting "*****" I have a questions. How do you post bigger pictures and also how do you post videos??
Also good morning
Also when I installed my Sypdershaft I believe I measure the front angle and then the rear angle and either added or subtracted them to come up with my finally number. but it has been a while. I did follow the instruction of a guy named Crazy al. I'm not sure what forum he is on. I go to about 5 different ones. I have no vibration on mine and I have changed the upper Control arm, the 2 lower control arm, Panhart bar, springs and shocks. I'm at 430 rwhp with a Saleen s/c.
Also good morning
Also when I installed my Sypdershaft I believe I measure the front angle and then the rear angle and either added or subtracted them to come up with my finally number. but it has been a while. I did follow the instruction of a guy named Crazy al. I'm not sure what forum he is on. I go to about 5 different ones. I have no vibration on mine and I have changed the upper Control arm, the 2 lower control arm, Panhart bar, springs and shocks. I'm at 430 rwhp with a Saleen s/c.
3/15/08, 07:14 AM
#2913
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To all you posting "*****" I have a questions. How do you post bigger pictures and also how do you post videos??
Also good morning
Also when I installed my Sypdershaft I believe I measure the front angle and then the rear angle and either added or subtracted them to come up with my finally number. but it has been a while. I did follow the instruction of a guy named Crazy al. I'm not sure what forum he is on. I go to about 5 different ones. I have no vibration on mine and I have changed the upper Control arm, the 2 lower control arm, Panhart bar, springs and shocks. I'm at 430 rwhp with a Saleen s/c.
Also good morning
Also when I installed my Sypdershaft I believe I measure the front angle and then the rear angle and either added or subtracted them to come up with my finally number. but it has been a while. I did follow the instruction of a guy named Crazy al. I'm not sure what forum he is on. I go to about 5 different ones. I have no vibration on mine and I have changed the upper Control arm, the 2 lower control arm, Panhart bar, springs and shocks. I'm at 430 rwhp with a Saleen s/c.
Post **** here,
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3/15/08, 07:42 AM
#2915
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Darrell, register at photobucket.com (its free, you cheapskate) and upload your pix there. Then you can link them to this site, cut and paste.
As far as pinion angle, when I installed the 3.5" shaft my trans flange was at 99 and the rear flange with adaptor bolted on was at -1, so I guess this would be a 2 degree difference- whether or not its considered + or - I couldn't say LOL.
What I do know is that after having the shaft for a couple of months and now putting around 1000 miles on the car, I have a "vibration" that I believe is more harmonic- you can feel it and hear it a bit- at around 4000rpm. I thought it was only at speeds around 80+ but actually after driving it, you can tell it's there in most gears at any mph as long as your at 4000+rpm, however it just "feels" more pronounced at higher mph for some reason. I think I notice it more at the higher mph because 1st, 2nd, and 3rd gear go by so quick in my car, that once you get in the 4000rpm range you're shifting very quickly after that because it rockets to redline. In 4th gear at 4000+ rpm, you're approaching 100mph and I typically don't sustain that kind of speed.
As far as pinion angle, when I installed the 3.5" shaft my trans flange was at 99 and the rear flange with adaptor bolted on was at -1, so I guess this would be a 2 degree difference- whether or not its considered + or - I couldn't say LOL.
What I do know is that after having the shaft for a couple of months and now putting around 1000 miles on the car, I have a "vibration" that I believe is more harmonic- you can feel it and hear it a bit- at around 4000rpm. I thought it was only at speeds around 80+ but actually after driving it, you can tell it's there in most gears at any mph as long as your at 4000+rpm, however it just "feels" more pronounced at higher mph for some reason. I think I notice it more at the higher mph because 1st, 2nd, and 3rd gear go by so quick in my car, that once you get in the 4000rpm range you're shifting very quickly after that because it rockets to redline. In 4th gear at 4000+ rpm, you're approaching 100mph and I typically don't sustain that kind of speed.
3/15/08, 07:43 AM
#2916
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3/15/08, 08:01 AM
#2917
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Yeah...I am not sure what the real story is with Jared. The only thing I might add to my post above is that Tacobills car has been lowered. STD's is also lowered. I believe that changes the pinion angle. While I did not put an angle finder on my flange so I can't say for sure but my pinion angle visually appears to be on the negative side and my car is factory ride height. When you lower a car it changes the relationship of the lower control arms to the upper control mounting points. That will change the pinion angle. I believe you need to find out how the cars are set up from the factory first.
We have spoke with shops that lower Mustangs on a fairly regular basis. They have told us that they don't see how lowering the body one inch changes driveline geometry. They haven't had any complaints of driveline vibrations after installing these lowering springs. We can see how changing control arms could possibly change the geometry if they aren't made exactly the same length, especially if you install an adjustable upper control arm. I doubt that coming out of the box an adjustable upper control is already set at exactly the same length as the OEM one since you wouldn't be buying one in the first place if you weren't planning on adjusting it. It doesn't make any since why we have sold plenty of our driveshafts to customers who are lowered and haven't experienced any vibrations without changing angles, we know Mustang owners like Taco Bill who have Coast and others with Spyder shafts are lowered and vibration free who didn't have to adjust pinion angle. If lowering causes a need to adjust pinion angle to rid vibration shouldn't it cause vibration consistently
Robert
Last edited by shaftmasters; 3/15/08 at 08:06 AM.
3/15/08, 08:14 AM
#2918
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3/15/08, 08:29 AM
#2919
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Scott,
We have spoke with shops that lower Mustangs on a fairly regular basis. They have told us that they don't see how lowering the body one inch changes driveline geometry. They haven't had any complaints of driveline vibrations after installing these lowering springs. We can see how changing control arms could possibly change the geometry if they aren't made exactly the same length, especially if you install an adjustable upper control arm. I doubt that coming out of the box an adjustable upper control is already set at exactly the same length as the OEM one since you wouldn't be buying one in the first place if you weren't planning on adjusting it. It doesn't make any since why we have sold plenty of our driveshafts to customers who are lowered and haven't experienced any vibrations without changing angles, we know Mustang owners like Taco Bill who have Coast and others with Spyder shafts are lowered and vibration free who didn't have to adjust pinion angle. If lowering causes a need to adjust pinion angle to rid vibration shouldn't it cause vibration consistently
Robert
We have spoke with shops that lower Mustangs on a fairly regular basis. They have told us that they don't see how lowering the body one inch changes driveline geometry. They haven't had any complaints of driveline vibrations after installing these lowering springs. We can see how changing control arms could possibly change the geometry if they aren't made exactly the same length, especially if you install an adjustable upper control arm. I doubt that coming out of the box an adjustable upper control is already set at exactly the same length as the OEM one since you wouldn't be buying one in the first place if you weren't planning on adjusting it. It doesn't make any since why we have sold plenty of our driveshafts to customers who are lowered and haven't experienced any vibrations without changing angles, we know Mustang owners like Taco Bill who have Coast and others with Spyder shafts are lowered and vibration free who didn't have to adjust pinion angle. If lowering causes a need to adjust pinion angle to rid vibration shouldn't it cause vibration consistently
Robert
Last edited by blkstang06; 3/15/08 at 08:32 AM.
3/15/08, 08:38 AM
#2920
Legacy TMS Member
Thread Starter