5 DOT 0

I wonder if the Full Tilt front cooling duct plates fit better than the 302 plates?


http://www.fulltiltboogieracing.com/s197_brakes.htm

meanmud

Inside first?

CO_VaporGT_09

I've got the Kenny Brown ones, they fit fine as well:

http://store.kennybrown.com/product/braking/brake-ducts

Bleeding is always done furthest away from master cylinder first because otherwise you have to start over with the closest valve if you find bubbles further downstream; so generally right rear, left rear, right front, left front, and if you have two valves on the fronts, the outside first, then the inside.

More good info here:

http://www.stoptech.com/tech_info/faqs.shtml

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brake_bleeding

cloud9

Seems I never get to "thin" mine out to a point of wearing out. They end up heat checking and eventually cracking before then. Aggressive pads......

Bossdog

I have autocrossed and tracked my Boss along with the aggressive Brake pad bedding proceedure recommended for tracking. I'm going to my next track event but wanted to be sure of the condition of the Pads (to be sure I could get home). I drove to the only Ford Dealer in the Detroit Metro area that had the Brembo stock Pads in stock. I took my pad with to compare.
I could visually see a reduction in the thickness of my pad but just slightly. Conservatively say 20% reduction (probably closer to 15%). You would not use the last 20%. SO, I estimate I have 60% pad life left. I'm not certain usage is linear. (is this a fair assessment or am I missing something?) The Stock Ford Pads sell for $208 for the front set. I am considering Hawk HPS or HP+ for my street pad. Any thoughts out there if these Hawk pads would be equal, better or worse that stock Ford Pads?
I plan on getting a Digital Caliper to measure ware after different track sessions so I have a feel for what activity creates what type of ware for predictive replacement.

cloud9

I have the HPS pads on my GT500 for the street. I prefer the Boss pads. I'd stick with them especially since they are now bed into your rotors.

I'm not sure pad wear is linear. This is not scientific on my part, although I'm sure the pad manufacturers have actual data, but it seems it's more like a roll of toilet paper. The further you go the faster it goes I think there's less heat dissipation the thinner the pad gets and that causes the pad material to wear faster. It would also probably cause more "wear" to the rotor and hub if that's the case.

cloud9

That's what I've been told and read.

CO_VaporGT_09

I would think this reasoning is sound, though the actual wear of the pads is generally just the friction against the rotor for most non-track use. On the track, at higher temps, the coefficient of friction will change, and you get more adhesive deceleration instead of purely mechanical/friction based. Depending on the pad's normal temp range, you can actually get more or less wear on the track (if it's an aggressive high-heat pad, you'll get more rotor and pad wear if you never get into that heat range, though usually getting into that heat range involves lots of high speed repetitive braking, so that increased use would cause increased wear regardless).

The problem is, if you do the inside, bleed til no bubbles, then do the outer edge one, and see bubbles, there's a possibility you've forced those same bubbles up the inner tube you just bled. So same principle should still apply, furthest first, which is the outer one.

Ronin38

I'll probably take my new GT up to Mid Ohio once, just for the fun of it... For running about 6 or 7/10's, do you think HPS pads would be okay for that? Or HP+? I won't be risking (too much) wrinkling my brand new car on the track, I have an '02 Miata for the crazy stuff! I might still be on the stock tires, too, so it definitely won't be too crazy.

I don't think the pad wear would be linear either, because as they get thinner, they will heat up more quickly. (I think...)

cloud9

I would just run your stock pads in that case. If you do change to a more aggressive pad I would upgrade your fluid with it.

PTRocks

When changing the pads, be sure to make yourself a sign to place on your dash to remind yourself to pump the brakes and re-seat the pads before driving the car. I've seen people go off in the first corner with no brakes after leaving the pits...

Metal

A lot of good info in this thread, but I noticed a lot of you guys are recommending a dedicated set of track rotors. This isn't exactly wrong, but it's actually completely unnecessary, especially if you are only casually tracking the car.

The trick is not switching back to street pads right after the track event. Just drive back on your race pads; as they cool they will polish away the transfer layer they left on the rotor during the track event. This cleans the rotor like new, allowing you to put your street pads back on once you get home. Don't forget to bed in your brakes again when you do this!

meanmud

In the thick of track season (all summer, usually), I leave my race pads on! Very little daily use, mostly to and from the track - and yes, have to re-bed them just prior to hitting the track because of what you described.

5 DOT 0

This is great info, keep it coming.

CO_VaporGT_09

That is one way to do it, though ultimately will result in greater/quicker rotor wear, as the pads go into abrasive mode, and if you leave the track pads on too long will ruin the rotor. Also involves lots of bedding/rebedding, separate rotors avoids this.

I've done the same, waiting to get a chance to work on one piece or another.

I've found (as suggested by several here) that taking the first track session fairly easy will allow the bedding then, and hopefully long enough cooling between sessions (mine are minimum 1-2 hours between 20 minute sessions).
If you're running for competitive TT sessions that's not always the best strategy, of course, though usually your best time won't be in the first session.

68asedan

I like the manner in which the Kenny Brown cooling duct plate discharges into the eye of the rotor vs. blasting on one side of the rotor as shown in the Full Tilt Boogie and Ford designs. This seems to force air flow through the cooliing slots in the rotor. I fabricated the same type of system on my 68 Asedan road racer, and it works well. I have seen rotor warpage and cracking on one side of the rotor from uneven cooling.

meanmud

Having seperate rotors and pads is THE best and safest way to do it - I have seen catastrophic things with bedding techniques at the track. It really is a process correctly bedding for optimum braking and safety. You can't get the correct transfer, nor are you getting enough time, allowing the rotors to completely cool, but....we do what we have to

JScottGT

I've been using Hawk compounds at the track for many years now and here is my experience with the compounds I've used:

HPS: These are a street pad, not a race pad! They can (usually) handle more heat than OEM pads, but are not up to the task of stopping a 3800 lb car from high speed over and over as in a 20 minute track session.

HP+: These are a great beginner track pad. They are good for installing them at home, driving to the track, running all day, and driving home. A few caviats though: When cold, they will wear the rotors quickly. They squeal like a school bus. When at the track, they are great! They come up to temperature quickly, and have a good initial bite. As long as you don't push your car to the limits on R compound tires, these will perform great all day without fade.

DTC60: Not for the feint of heart! These pads are simply awesome on track. The downside is you cannot install them at home and drive to the track on them. They need to be at least 200-deg to start working. Once there, they bite HARD! It is also best to have a dedicated set of rotors for these pads.

My typical track setup is to use the DTC60 on the front, and the HP+ on the rear. This has worked great at getting my car slowed down from speed every time. I have even noticed a reduced wear rate on this setup because I can go harder on the brakes for a shorter duration to get the car slowed down.
The step up from this is to use the DTC70 on the front, and DTC60 on the rear. I have not tried this myself, but know of a lot of Corvette racers that use this setup and it works great for W2W competition.

CO_VaporGT_09

That's what I'm doing now with separate pads/rotors for street/track, at least for the fronts. The rear are a bear to change out (30-45 minutes each side).

cloud9

I agree with all this from my experience. I do run the 70/60 combo and if you think the 60s up front stop hard, try the 70s! They are amazing as long as you're using R-compound tires. On streets I'm sure you'd be engaging ABS regularly. I rarely if ever have had ABS go off, but man do they stop the car! The only downside is you have to increase your rotor budget because they do eat them up.