Brake upgrades for the track after reviews
3/9/11, 09:04 AM
#44
I am Shauny Clause
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Sorry for the extreme delay in my posting, it turns out that two jobs, an MBA program, buying a house that needs work and moving in all at once is a bit crazy.
ok everything that has been said by cloud9 and 06GT is golden advice.
The new 5.0 is easily capable of overwhelming its factory brake setup on a road course with good tires. I run Hoosier R6, A6 and Grand Am take off tires depending on what I am doing (competition or open track day for fun). With the A6 and R6 ABS getting to ABS engagement can be a struggle so the brakes are being fully utilized. My car has run in the low 150mph range on the back straight at Mid Ohio (psycho speed for a full weight street car) and weighs a staggering 3,910 with me in it in race trim with ½ tank of gas. That is a **** load of energy to be absorbed by the brakes. Now my car isn’t stock both power and suspension/tires so my speeds are not the same as a normal 5.0 plus I am a decent driver so I get onto the straight carrying good speed but you get the point of me bringing this up.
So my advice is as follows:
1. Don’t track with the stock pads and fluid PERIOD. (Great fluid = Brembo LCF 600 or equivalent)
One Brake pad (for the front) that hasn’t been mentioned and is a great pad is Performance Friction PFC-01. This has the stopping power of a DTC-70 but is easier on the rotor and I personally prefer the initial bite of the PFC over the Hawk (splitting hairs). We run PFC-01's on our Grand Am and NASA Race cars.
2. Don’t use the same rotors for the street that you use at the track. When you go to a more aggressive pad it is easy for that pad to bed into the rotor. HOWEVER when you go back to street pads its EXTREMLY hard for those pads to get a bite on the rotor since they are a wussier compound. Its amazing how badly your ability to panic stop is compromised on street pads after you have had track pads on the car, it borders on dangerous! (I almost learned the hard way some time ago).
3. Stock rotors are fine for open track days (they wont last as long as a 2 piece) if your only going to track less then say 5 times a year save your money and use factory rotors they are way cheaper (but have a dedicated track set and a dedicated street set). If you’re a track rat like me (actually competing not just open track days and 15-18 track “days” a year) step up to a two piece dedicated race rotor. To a point you get what you pay for. I recommend Brembo race rotors. We have used cheaper alternatives in the past and it’s just not worth the savings (life of rotor, stopping power, heat dissipation). Also more vanes = good. Remember brake rotor cooling vanes are directional (not applicable to stock rotors).
4. Remove all dust shields on all four corners, no exceptions (if you want to put them back after that’s up to you)
5. Cooling ducts are a good idea and for the extremely casual track guy can be done very cheaply and not permanently. Buy brake cooling hose (do NOT use house drier ducting it cant take the heat, I have seen fires because someone’s drier ducting which was plastic caught fire, dur) and zip tie it to the tie rod ends as close to the rotor as possible (its not the best solution but its better then nothing) and then zip tie them to the car all the way to the front fascia (be sure to leave slack so the ducting can turn with the wheels of course). Then remove them after the track day. If your serious about this invest in a proper setup (see my thread about fabbing in a setup to my Roush fascia or buy a FRPP or similar kit, the new FRPP Boss cooling kit = very good). Cooling ducts directed to the center of the rotor (hub area) also help to extend the life of the hub under track conditions (hubs are a wear item for road race cars and are replaced at intervals that are fractions of what a street car sees and heat is a part of the reason).
6. The factory Brembo calipers will discolor (no big deal) with track use.
7. To the really serious track guys if your budget and race (or TT in my case) class allow, stepping up to a more serious front caliper is a good idea (be aware that street compound pads are very hard to find for some race calipers). In my and Rehagen Racing's opinion the best brake kit for the money is a Brembo Pro Kit (yes it is very expensive) but its worth more then double what they charge, but there are plenty of options.
8. Stainless brake lines are not needed for the guy who might track the car a couple of times a year, but keep a close eye on them. Check for bulges and squishiness. Stainless lines are ALWAYS a good idea for everyone and must for track rats.
If any TMS member has specific questions they are always welcome to PM me and if I cant answer the question I can get it answered by someone at the shop or even contact venders if needed and would be happy to do so.
I should mention that we sell not only off the shelf brake kits and pads for Mustangs but also Kits that we manufacturer in house (or have made just for us) and most are listed on our website, just saying
This year we have fought heat issues in my car and the theme of the year was brake failure, first we thought it was rear caliper fluid, then pad temp issues and we now believe that my car has a defective master cylinder (new one is in hand and will be swapped out before the first event). After 8-9 laps at 10/10ths the brake pedal goes to the floor and the car does not slow down at all. I can’t even stop in the pits (the brake pedal seriously does nothing at all to stop the car). If the fluid in the front was boiling I would still have back brakes to stop the car and visa versa, so it’s not boiling fluid (plus when the fluid is bled there are no bubbles and when allowed to fully cool if not bled the brakes return to 100%). If it was pad temps you could still stop in the pits from sub 5mph, and none of those scenarios explain the completely free traveling pedal and the fact that the E-brake still stops the car (in the pits) just fine. I have spoken at great length to the Ford, Brembo and TRW engineers who developed this system and everyone is convinced that this is an isolated problem. The Ford guys have flogged the Boss’s just as hard for way longer and NEVER seen a failure like this (so don’t panic about your car, its fine).
The reason I mention this is, if you start to get a spongy pedal on track BACK OFF NOW. That is a general rule of track driving anyway, but just in case you experience an issue like me, back off early.
ok everything that has been said by cloud9 and 06GT is golden advice.
The new 5.0 is easily capable of overwhelming its factory brake setup on a road course with good tires. I run Hoosier R6, A6 and Grand Am take off tires depending on what I am doing (competition or open track day for fun). With the A6 and R6 ABS getting to ABS engagement can be a struggle so the brakes are being fully utilized. My car has run in the low 150mph range on the back straight at Mid Ohio (psycho speed for a full weight street car) and weighs a staggering 3,910 with me in it in race trim with ½ tank of gas. That is a **** load of energy to be absorbed by the brakes. Now my car isn’t stock both power and suspension/tires so my speeds are not the same as a normal 5.0 plus I am a decent driver so I get onto the straight carrying good speed but you get the point of me bringing this up.
So my advice is as follows:
1. Don’t track with the stock pads and fluid PERIOD. (Great fluid = Brembo LCF 600 or equivalent)
One Brake pad (for the front) that hasn’t been mentioned and is a great pad is Performance Friction PFC-01. This has the stopping power of a DTC-70 but is easier on the rotor and I personally prefer the initial bite of the PFC over the Hawk (splitting hairs). We run PFC-01's on our Grand Am and NASA Race cars.
2. Don’t use the same rotors for the street that you use at the track. When you go to a more aggressive pad it is easy for that pad to bed into the rotor. HOWEVER when you go back to street pads its EXTREMLY hard for those pads to get a bite on the rotor since they are a wussier compound. Its amazing how badly your ability to panic stop is compromised on street pads after you have had track pads on the car, it borders on dangerous! (I almost learned the hard way some time ago).
3. Stock rotors are fine for open track days (they wont last as long as a 2 piece) if your only going to track less then say 5 times a year save your money and use factory rotors they are way cheaper (but have a dedicated track set and a dedicated street set). If you’re a track rat like me (actually competing not just open track days and 15-18 track “days” a year) step up to a two piece dedicated race rotor. To a point you get what you pay for. I recommend Brembo race rotors. We have used cheaper alternatives in the past and it’s just not worth the savings (life of rotor, stopping power, heat dissipation). Also more vanes = good. Remember brake rotor cooling vanes are directional (not applicable to stock rotors).
4. Remove all dust shields on all four corners, no exceptions (if you want to put them back after that’s up to you)
5. Cooling ducts are a good idea and for the extremely casual track guy can be done very cheaply and not permanently. Buy brake cooling hose (do NOT use house drier ducting it cant take the heat, I have seen fires because someone’s drier ducting which was plastic caught fire, dur) and zip tie it to the tie rod ends as close to the rotor as possible (its not the best solution but its better then nothing) and then zip tie them to the car all the way to the front fascia (be sure to leave slack so the ducting can turn with the wheels of course). Then remove them after the track day. If your serious about this invest in a proper setup (see my thread about fabbing in a setup to my Roush fascia or buy a FRPP or similar kit, the new FRPP Boss cooling kit = very good). Cooling ducts directed to the center of the rotor (hub area) also help to extend the life of the hub under track conditions (hubs are a wear item for road race cars and are replaced at intervals that are fractions of what a street car sees and heat is a part of the reason).
6. The factory Brembo calipers will discolor (no big deal) with track use.
7. To the really serious track guys if your budget and race (or TT in my case) class allow, stepping up to a more serious front caliper is a good idea (be aware that street compound pads are very hard to find for some race calipers). In my and Rehagen Racing's opinion the best brake kit for the money is a Brembo Pro Kit (yes it is very expensive) but its worth more then double what they charge, but there are plenty of options.
8. Stainless brake lines are not needed for the guy who might track the car a couple of times a year, but keep a close eye on them. Check for bulges and squishiness. Stainless lines are ALWAYS a good idea for everyone and must for track rats.
If any TMS member has specific questions they are always welcome to PM me and if I cant answer the question I can get it answered by someone at the shop or even contact venders if needed and would be happy to do so.
I should mention that we sell not only off the shelf brake kits and pads for Mustangs but also Kits that we manufacturer in house (or have made just for us) and most are listed on our website, just saying
This year we have fought heat issues in my car and the theme of the year was brake failure, first we thought it was rear caliper fluid, then pad temp issues and we now believe that my car has a defective master cylinder (new one is in hand and will be swapped out before the first event). After 8-9 laps at 10/10ths the brake pedal goes to the floor and the car does not slow down at all. I can’t even stop in the pits (the brake pedal seriously does nothing at all to stop the car). If the fluid in the front was boiling I would still have back brakes to stop the car and visa versa, so it’s not boiling fluid (plus when the fluid is bled there are no bubbles and when allowed to fully cool if not bled the brakes return to 100%). If it was pad temps you could still stop in the pits from sub 5mph, and none of those scenarios explain the completely free traveling pedal and the fact that the E-brake still stops the car (in the pits) just fine. I have spoken at great length to the Ford, Brembo and TRW engineers who developed this system and everyone is convinced that this is an isolated problem. The Ford guys have flogged the Boss’s just as hard for way longer and NEVER seen a failure like this (so don’t panic about your car, its fine).
The reason I mention this is, if you start to get a spongy pedal on track BACK OFF NOW. That is a general rule of track driving anyway, but just in case you experience an issue like me, back off early.
Last edited by Stinger1982; 3/9/11 at 09:09 AM.
3/9/11, 09:31 AM
#45
Excellent thread here! 
subscribed!
I was only going to add for anyone who doesn't track much, and/or this is your first track experience... If you're planning on running the stock brake pads and "taking it easy" out on the track, MAKE SURE you have an extra set of brake pads!!
When you get into your 3rd or 4th session on the track you will probably be going a lot faster than you "planned" on going and your stock pads will NOT be happy. As my one friend said, "They will turn into peanut-butter!" 
An extra set of pads will get you home safely.
At least one bottle of extra brake fluid might be a good idea, too.
subscribed!I was only going to add for anyone who doesn't track much, and/or this is your first track experience... If you're planning on running the stock brake pads and "taking it easy" out on the track, MAKE SURE you have an extra set of brake pads!!
When you get into your 3rd or 4th session on the track you will probably be going a lot faster than you "planned" on going and your stock pads will NOT be happy. As my one friend said, "They will turn into peanut-butter!" An extra set of pads will get you home safely.At least one bottle of extra brake fluid might be a good idea, too.
3/9/11, 09:37 AM
#46
Separate question on pads-
Has anyone tried any of the EBC pads on these cars? Yellow or Blue? I used the Yellowstuff pads on my '07 Charger (running about 7/10's) and they worked very well for me. It was an AWD, V6, so my top speeds weren't even close to some of the speeds the V8 cars could hit. (I topped out at 115 mph on the back straight of Mid Ohio, for example. Best lap was 1:58) I left them on for street use and they did pretty well there also.
I used Wilwood 570 fluid and stock rotors, with Sumitomo HTR ZIII tires. This worked well FOR ME.
Has anyone tried any of the EBC pads on these cars? Yellow or Blue? I used the Yellowstuff pads on my '07 Charger (running about 7/10's) and they worked very well for me. It was an AWD, V6, so my top speeds weren't even close to some of the speeds the V8 cars could hit. (I topped out at 115 mph on the back straight of Mid Ohio, for example. Best lap was 1:58) I left them on for street use and they did pretty well there also.
I used Wilwood 570 fluid and stock rotors, with Sumitomo HTR ZIII tires. This worked well FOR ME.
3/9/11, 10:03 AM
#47
I've run EBC Yellowstuff before, I'd say they're comparable to Hawk HP+. They dust a LOT, but not noisy on the street like HP+.
I was using them when I was running considerably slower laptimes and on street tires, so I'd not recommend them for advanced drivers. Should be fine for beginners.
Their Bluestuff pad is supposed to be a race-only compound, but it's new and I'm not aware of anyone that has firsthand experience that could comment. I'm also very happy with DTC60s/HT10s, so I'm not going to be the guinea pig for the Bluestuff pads
I was using them when I was running considerably slower laptimes and on street tires, so I'd not recommend them for advanced drivers. Should be fine for beginners.
Their Bluestuff pad is supposed to be a race-only compound, but it's new and I'm not aware of anyone that has firsthand experience that could comment. I'm also very happy with DTC60s/HT10s, so I'm not going to be the guinea pig for the Bluestuff pads
3/9/11, 10:11 AM
#48
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hey, I mentioned the PFC 01's ;-)
sounds like good advice. as I'd posted previously, I've had very good results with PFC rotors and PFC pads. I've used both the 01 and 9 compounds and can't say enough about the quality of their stuff.
3/9/11, 10:28 AM
#49
I am Shauny Clause
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I have used EBC's for street pads (Red Stuff) before and had quality issues with backing plates not being stamped correctly (tapered edges) causing binding in the caliper.
Jscottgt nearly totalled his car running yellow stuff's the pad material just came off the backing plate (tons of material left not their first time out on track) on track at the end of the straightaway. He was very lucky.
I do not recomend EBC pads for street or track.
They seem to have manufacturing quality control issues.
Jscottgt nearly totalled his car running yellow stuff's the pad material just came off the backing plate (tons of material left not their first time out on track) on track at the end of the straightaway. He was very lucky.
I do not recomend EBC pads for street or track.
They seem to have manufacturing quality control issues.
Last edited by Stinger1982; 3/9/11 at 10:32 AM.
3/9/11, 11:35 AM
#50
^ Ouch! I hadn't heard that before! Thanks for the tip.
FYI: a friend of mine used EBC Bluestuff pads for a few track days last year. The Blue is "designed" for large, heavy cars. He has a Chrysler 300 SRT8 and reported that they worked VERY well for his car. Obviously his didn't come apart, though.
FYI: a friend of mine used EBC Bluestuff pads for a few track days last year. The Blue is "designed" for large, heavy cars. He has a Chrysler 300 SRT8 and reported that they worked VERY well for his car. Obviously his didn't come apart, though.
3/9/11, 12:15 PM
#51
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Does anyone make a kit for upgrading the rear brakes? I doubt the rears need better performance but I hate dealing with the screwy mustang rear brakes when you go to change pads. Changing pads for the front with the Brembos should be no problem at the track but the rears with the goofy screw in pistons suck to work on.
3/9/11, 01:17 PM
#52
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Does anyone make a kit for upgrading the rear brakes? I doubt the rears need better performance but I hate dealing with the screwy mustang rear brakes when you go to change pads. Changing pads for the front with the Brembos should be no problem at the track but the rears with the goofy screw in pistons suck to work on.
http://www.harborfreight.com/18-piec...source=linking
3/9/11, 01:24 PM
#53
I am Shauny Clause
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thank you for the link! I have been meaning to buy my own so when I go to events without the team rear pad changes dont become a total PITA
3/9/11, 01:37 PM
#56
I got a kit from Harbor Freight for $20 and it works great. I can't find it on their site anymore, but did find one for $42.99 that is the same thing only it includes two drivers instead of one. It really makes changing the rears almost easier than the Brembos with this tool.
http://www.harborfreight.com/18-piec...source=linking
http://www.harborfreight.com/18-piec...source=linking
3/9/11, 02:12 PM
#57
I DREAD changing rear brake pads. The tool does make it easier, though.
Last edited by 06GT; 3/9/11 at 02:14 PM.
3/9/11, 02:29 PM
#58
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http://www.fulltiltboogieracing.com/...0FT%209000.jpg
3/9/11, 02:35 PM
#59
Are there instructions or manuals posted here anywhere on how to change brakes n' such? I have a 2011 GT. Changing the brake pads on my Charger was one of the easiest I've ever done! The rear brakes on the Miata are kind of a PITA as well...
Or is there a recommended shop manual? Thanks!
The rear brakes on the Miata are kind of a PITA as well...Or is there a recommended shop manual? Thanks!
Last edited by Ronin38; 3/9/11 at 02:36 PM.
3/9/11, 02:55 PM
#60
Really? I don't know. It takes me less time to swap the two pads in the rear with the tool than it does the fronts. I think the front pistons are a PITA to compress because you push in one side then the other goes out and back and forth. I did just get this tool though, so we'll see how that helps on the fronts:
http://www.fulltiltboogieracing.com/...0FT%209000.jpg
http://www.fulltiltboogieracing.com/...0FT%209000.jpg
I'm just glad you didn't post the $240 pad-spreader!