What are some improvements you want to see in the NEXT GEN redesign?
11/5/13, 12:59 PM
#821
Cobra Member
Right you are. I'm sure there is a logical, financially sound reason they don't offer this, but could there be a semi-reasonable number which makes it a winner for everyone? It might actually be a loss leader kind of thing, but it would get a lot of press in the enthusiast world which might spill over into excitment for the entire brand.
11/5/13, 10:42 PM
#823
Cobra Member
But, NO I don't think it's likely, nor did I say that I felt it was likely. I think that I was pretty clear about that. My FIRST sentence was. "Right you are. I'm sure there is a logical, financially sound reason they don't offer this," Then I asked a question, "but could there be a semi-reasonable number which makes it a winner for everyone? "
I ended by suggesting that it MIGHT happen as a loss leader. No where in my post did I suggest that I HONESTLY THINK this is going to happen. But, I totally appreciate you pointing out that this isn't Best Buy or Black Friday. I have never understood the need for uncessary sarcastic and condescending tone from people who don't even read or understand a pretty straight forward post. I'm especially surprised at this from a moderator who has in the past been more than reasonable. C'est la vie!
11/6/13, 07:05 AM
#824
You can look at those halo vehicles a number of ways. They certainly are a loss leader, especially when you factor in the massive R&D budgets associated with them. In the instance of the LFA, that car was designed, then scrapped, and re-designed with a new direction, hence the long wait from concept to production. I believe the first car was aluminum, but deemed too heavy, so a new car was built using carbon fiber. Things like a loom (one of two I believe) designed to make the A-pillar cost exorbitant amounts of money and are limited in scope of application.
In the case of a forged internal option, the cost between a cast piston and forged is significant. The costs between the Coyote components, even to the manufacturer from their suppliers, is huge. It's a magnitude of several times more. I can't speak on behalf of any manufacturing differences between a cast and forged piston, but suffice to say, the costs would be passed on to the consumer at a large amount ($4000-5000 maybe?), creating a very small take rate, and ultimately making an option like that not viable for a production environment.
In the case of the '13-14 Track Pack cars, it appears the only difference between a standard GT and a TP car was the addition of the oil cooler and upgraded cooling, as well as the addition of a different weight oil, and the tune required to properly run that weight of oil for the Ti-VCT timing. Both the radiator and oil cooler were developed during the Boss 302 project (and/or F150 for the oil cooler), which costs substantially less than the R&D for an engine component design.
In the case of a forged internal option, the cost between a cast piston and forged is significant. The costs between the Coyote components, even to the manufacturer from their suppliers, is huge. It's a magnitude of several times more. I can't speak on behalf of any manufacturing differences between a cast and forged piston, but suffice to say, the costs would be passed on to the consumer at a large amount ($4000-5000 maybe?), creating a very small take rate, and ultimately making an option like that not viable for a production environment.
In the case of the '13-14 Track Pack cars, it appears the only difference between a standard GT and a TP car was the addition of the oil cooler and upgraded cooling, as well as the addition of a different weight oil, and the tune required to properly run that weight of oil for the Ti-VCT timing. Both the radiator and oil cooler were developed during the Boss 302 project (and/or F150 for the oil cooler), which costs substantially less than the R&D for an engine component design.
11/6/13, 09:57 AM
#825
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I think I have to label most of this "Wish List" items completely STUPID. Everyone complains about how expensive the cars are and how bloated they are becoming, yet you only want to add more items that will cost much more and add un-necessary weight???? Look, if you need a toaster for your tail feathers, a steering wheel that messages your palms, a Info center that tells you how wonderfully you are every time you turn it on or a rear view mirror that is always positioned just right to stare at yourself....then fine get another car that has those features and leave the Mustang alone. I'm sorry to cause a stir, but 90% of these wants are plain fairy dust. The Ford mustang will not have a Dual Clutch transmission any time soon, if ever, so get over it. For those that think paddle shifters are so cool, you will have a 6 speed auto with those. How, I can not see how they are anything but un-necessary, something you will use once or twice then forget it exist.
The cylinder deactivation is not going to happen ither....That is a Dodge/Mercedes patent and they are not working together at this moment. Ford and GM are developing a joint venture transmission, a 10 speed that will make it's way into the Mustang, but not till about 2017.
I do not want head-up display, more electronic stupid gadgets, or a more complicated Infotainment system. Sorry, I HOPE Ford has learned their lesson with the miserable system they have now, since it has cost them many sales and most from bad reviews/consumer reports. I here the new system will come out with both electronic and old fashioned ***** for control....thank God.
The whole I deal of this new platform was to push Ford and the Mustang back into the future, a place they should have already been, had it not been for the retro theme they got stuck in for the last 8-10 years. The term Cash Cow comes to mind...
Originally, the new S550, as they call it, was to be even more like the Eoss concept car, more rounded, thinner and lower. Apparently Ford conducted much consumer surveys and found that most Mustang buyer would not purchase such a car, so they changed direction, and Americanized it up a bit, which is where we are now and why the car is late. Sorry, I never think going with a half hearted ideal is right...So we now will have a IRS rear axle....big deal, I never disliked the solid rear axle. We also have a car 15" shorter and some 6" narrower. So be ready to have less room. The car looks as though it was shorten in the front by about 1/2 and in the back by the other half. If you thought the 4.6L engine was stuffed in the last model, then imagine this one. The 5.8L engine was suppose to be dropped, and so was the Shelby name plate. The 4 cyl engine was to be the standard offering, with a v-6 engine optional, and the only v-8 available in the new special vehicles. Now I think they will continue with the Coyote for a few years, and slowly drop it from the options list. Making the Mustang un-available in normal conditions for the V-8, maybe a return of the Mach1 or Boss 302 as a special V-8 available offering.
Times are changing, and the cars are going to have to change also. This temporary drop in gas prices, will no doubt prolong this change, but it has to happen. Ford want a World car, to go along with the new Ford World car strategy. This means the Mustang has to become smaller, lighter and available with less cylinders. In Europe, gas is always at a premium, about 8-9 dollars a gallon, so people can not afford to purchase a gas hog and feed it at those prices, nor could they do it over hear!! We had a fit when things got to 4.00 a gallon, try 9 or 10 dollars a gallon...now what would you buy?
I'm a fan, I have always like the Mustang body. I have become a really huge fan of the Ford modular engine, as I feel it represents a world class engine with huge potential and power. It may strike a nerve to us, but what would be very acceptable in Europe would be a small Turbo Diesel engine option. Eco-boost is really a misleading name, as Ford probably intended it to be. The Eco-boost does not get very good fuel economy at all, in fact it is terrible. But what it does is two fold: One. It takes a small displacement engine and by pressurizing the intake track, makes much more power then expected. Two Fools people into thinking they have a small, but efficient fuel sipping engine. They do not, as it takes fuel to make power, and you can not get around that. A 2.3L engine by itself, with direct injection and the right gearing, and yes you would have a great fuel sipping engine, but that same engine would be a dog, and that is only made worse by the fact that you stuck a slow, underpowered engine in a car that looks fast. Expectations not meeting the real world performance.
I hope Ford continues to improve the small things. Better materials inside, more soft touch materials, and better fit and finish. I do think Ford has a really good paint program...many new cars, such as GM, have large unsightly " Orange Peel" in the paint. Ford in contrast, is very good in that department. Open up the Ford Racing parts catalog to more items. This valuable resource has been raided in the past years, and we have lost many, many Ford Modular engine parts. Please help with the lack of a source for new modular 4.6 and 5.4L blocks. These are all but gone and un-available. Same for the 4-Valve heads. The sport can not continue to grow, without a source for parts. This is just as important as selling new cars.
I trust Ford to do the right thing with the new body style, they have done so for over 50 years now.
The cylinder deactivation is not going to happen ither....That is a Dodge/Mercedes patent and they are not working together at this moment. Ford and GM are developing a joint venture transmission, a 10 speed that will make it's way into the Mustang, but not till about 2017.
I do not want head-up display, more electronic stupid gadgets, or a more complicated Infotainment system. Sorry, I HOPE Ford has learned their lesson with the miserable system they have now, since it has cost them many sales and most from bad reviews/consumer reports. I here the new system will come out with both electronic and old fashioned ***** for control....thank God.
The whole I deal of this new platform was to push Ford and the Mustang back into the future, a place they should have already been, had it not been for the retro theme they got stuck in for the last 8-10 years. The term Cash Cow comes to mind...
Originally, the new S550, as they call it, was to be even more like the Eoss concept car, more rounded, thinner and lower. Apparently Ford conducted much consumer surveys and found that most Mustang buyer would not purchase such a car, so they changed direction, and Americanized it up a bit, which is where we are now and why the car is late. Sorry, I never think going with a half hearted ideal is right...So we now will have a IRS rear axle....big deal, I never disliked the solid rear axle. We also have a car 15" shorter and some 6" narrower. So be ready to have less room. The car looks as though it was shorten in the front by about 1/2 and in the back by the other half. If you thought the 4.6L engine was stuffed in the last model, then imagine this one. The 5.8L engine was suppose to be dropped, and so was the Shelby name plate. The 4 cyl engine was to be the standard offering, with a v-6 engine optional, and the only v-8 available in the new special vehicles. Now I think they will continue with the Coyote for a few years, and slowly drop it from the options list. Making the Mustang un-available in normal conditions for the V-8, maybe a return of the Mach1 or Boss 302 as a special V-8 available offering.
Times are changing, and the cars are going to have to change also. This temporary drop in gas prices, will no doubt prolong this change, but it has to happen. Ford want a World car, to go along with the new Ford World car strategy. This means the Mustang has to become smaller, lighter and available with less cylinders. In Europe, gas is always at a premium, about 8-9 dollars a gallon, so people can not afford to purchase a gas hog and feed it at those prices, nor could they do it over hear!! We had a fit when things got to 4.00 a gallon, try 9 or 10 dollars a gallon...now what would you buy?
I'm a fan, I have always like the Mustang body. I have become a really huge fan of the Ford modular engine, as I feel it represents a world class engine with huge potential and power. It may strike a nerve to us, but what would be very acceptable in Europe would be a small Turbo Diesel engine option. Eco-boost is really a misleading name, as Ford probably intended it to be. The Eco-boost does not get very good fuel economy at all, in fact it is terrible. But what it does is two fold: One. It takes a small displacement engine and by pressurizing the intake track, makes much more power then expected. Two Fools people into thinking they have a small, but efficient fuel sipping engine. They do not, as it takes fuel to make power, and you can not get around that. A 2.3L engine by itself, with direct injection and the right gearing, and yes you would have a great fuel sipping engine, but that same engine would be a dog, and that is only made worse by the fact that you stuck a slow, underpowered engine in a car that looks fast. Expectations not meeting the real world performance.
I hope Ford continues to improve the small things. Better materials inside, more soft touch materials, and better fit and finish. I do think Ford has a really good paint program...many new cars, such as GM, have large unsightly " Orange Peel" in the paint. Ford in contrast, is very good in that department. Open up the Ford Racing parts catalog to more items. This valuable resource has been raided in the past years, and we have lost many, many Ford Modular engine parts. Please help with the lack of a source for new modular 4.6 and 5.4L blocks. These are all but gone and un-available. Same for the 4-Valve heads. The sport can not continue to grow, without a source for parts. This is just as important as selling new cars.
I trust Ford to do the right thing with the new body style, they have done so for over 50 years now.
11/6/13, 10:22 AM
#826
Mach 1 Member
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I think I have to label most of this "Wish List" items completely STUPID. Everyone complains about how expensive the cars are and how bloated they are becoming, yet you only want to add more items that will cost much more and add un-necessary weight???? Look, if you need a toaster for your tail feathers, a steering wheel that messages your palms, a Info center that tells you how wonderfully you are every time you turn it on or a rear view mirror that is always positioned just right to stare at yourself....then fine get another car that has those features and leave the Mustang alone. I'm sorry to cause a stir, but 90% of these wants are plain fairy dust. The Ford mustang will not have a Dual Clutch transmission any time soon, if ever, so get over it. For those that think paddle shifters are so cool, you will have a 6 speed auto with those. How, I can not see how they are anything but un-necessary, something you will use once or twice then forget it exist.
The cylinder deactivation is not going to happen ither....That is a Dodge/Mercedes patent and they are not working together at this moment. Ford and GM are developing a joint venture transmission, a 10 speed that will make it's way into the Mustang, but not till about 2017.
I do not want head-up display, more electronic stupid gadgets, or a more complicated Infotainment system. Sorry, I HOPE Ford has learned their lesson with the miserable system they have now, since it has cost them many sales and most from bad reviews/consumer reports. I here the new system will come out with both electronic and old fashioned ***** for control....thank God.
The whole I deal of this new platform was to push Ford and the Mustang back into the future, a place they should have already been, had it not been for the retro theme they got stuck in for the last 8-10 years. The term Cash Cow comes to mind...
Originally, the new S550, as they call it, was to be even more like the Eoss concept car, more rounded, thinner and lower. Apparently Ford conducted much consumer surveys and found that most Mustang buyer would not purchase such a car, so they changed direction, and Americanized it up a bit, which is where we are now and why the car is late. Sorry, I never think going with a half hearted ideal is right...So we now will have a IRS rear axle....big deal, I never disliked the solid rear axle. We also have a car 15" shorter and some 6" narrower. So be ready to have less room. The car looks as though it was shorten in the front by about 1/2 and in the back by the other half. If you thought the 4.6L engine was stuffed in the last model, then imagine this one. The 5.8L engine was suppose to be dropped, and so was the Shelby name plate. The 4 cyl engine was to be the standard offering, with a v-6 engine optional, and the only v-8 available in the new special vehicles. Now I think they will continue with the Coyote for a few years, and slowly drop it from the options list. Making the Mustang un-available in normal conditions for the V-8, maybe a return of the Mach1 or Boss 302 as a special V-8 available offering.
Times are changing, and the cars are going to have to change also. This temporary drop in gas prices, will no doubt prolong this change, but it has to happen. Ford want a World car, to go along with the new Ford World car strategy. This means the Mustang has to become smaller, lighter and available with less cylinders. In Europe, gas is always at a premium, about 8-9 dollars a gallon, so people can not afford to purchase a gas hog and feed it at those prices, nor could they do it over hear!! We had a fit when things got to 4.00 a gallon, try 9 or 10 dollars a gallon...now what would you buy?
I'm a fan, I have always like the Mustang body. I have become a really huge fan of the Ford modular engine, as I feel it represents a world class engine with huge potential and power. It may strike a nerve to us, but what would be very acceptable in Europe would be a small Turbo Diesel engine option. Eco-boost is really a misleading name, as Ford probably intended it to be. The Eco-boost does not get very good fuel economy at all, in fact it is terrible. But what it does is two fold: One. It takes a small displacement engine and by pressurizing the intake track, makes much more power then expected. Two Fools people into thinking they have a small, but efficient fuel sipping engine. They do not, as it takes fuel to make power, and you can not get around that. A 2.3L engine by itself, with direct injection and the right gearing, and yes you would have a great fuel sipping engine, but that same engine would be a dog, and that is only made worse by the fact that you stuck a slow, underpowered engine in a car that looks fast. Expectations not meeting the real world performance.
I hope Ford continues to improve the small things. Better materials inside, more soft touch materials, and better fit and finish. I do think Ford has a really good paint program...many new cars, such as GM, have large unsightly " Orange Peel" in the paint. Ford in contrast, is very good in that department. Open up the Ford Racing parts catalog to more items. This valuable resource has been raided in the past years, and we have lost many, many Ford Modular engine parts. Please help with the lack of a source for new modular 4.6 and 5.4L blocks. These are all but gone and un-available. Same for the 4-Valve heads. The sport can not continue to grow, without a source for parts. This is just as important as selling new cars.
I trust Ford to do the right thing with the new body style, they have done so for over 50 years now.
The cylinder deactivation is not going to happen ither....That is a Dodge/Mercedes patent and they are not working together at this moment. Ford and GM are developing a joint venture transmission, a 10 speed that will make it's way into the Mustang, but not till about 2017.
I do not want head-up display, more electronic stupid gadgets, or a more complicated Infotainment system. Sorry, I HOPE Ford has learned their lesson with the miserable system they have now, since it has cost them many sales and most from bad reviews/consumer reports. I here the new system will come out with both electronic and old fashioned ***** for control....thank God.
The whole I deal of this new platform was to push Ford and the Mustang back into the future, a place they should have already been, had it not been for the retro theme they got stuck in for the last 8-10 years. The term Cash Cow comes to mind...
Originally, the new S550, as they call it, was to be even more like the Eoss concept car, more rounded, thinner and lower. Apparently Ford conducted much consumer surveys and found that most Mustang buyer would not purchase such a car, so they changed direction, and Americanized it up a bit, which is where we are now and why the car is late. Sorry, I never think going with a half hearted ideal is right...So we now will have a IRS rear axle....big deal, I never disliked the solid rear axle. We also have a car 15" shorter and some 6" narrower. So be ready to have less room. The car looks as though it was shorten in the front by about 1/2 and in the back by the other half. If you thought the 4.6L engine was stuffed in the last model, then imagine this one. The 5.8L engine was suppose to be dropped, and so was the Shelby name plate. The 4 cyl engine was to be the standard offering, with a v-6 engine optional, and the only v-8 available in the new special vehicles. Now I think they will continue with the Coyote for a few years, and slowly drop it from the options list. Making the Mustang un-available in normal conditions for the V-8, maybe a return of the Mach1 or Boss 302 as a special V-8 available offering.
Times are changing, and the cars are going to have to change also. This temporary drop in gas prices, will no doubt prolong this change, but it has to happen. Ford want a World car, to go along with the new Ford World car strategy. This means the Mustang has to become smaller, lighter and available with less cylinders. In Europe, gas is always at a premium, about 8-9 dollars a gallon, so people can not afford to purchase a gas hog and feed it at those prices, nor could they do it over hear!! We had a fit when things got to 4.00 a gallon, try 9 or 10 dollars a gallon...now what would you buy?
I'm a fan, I have always like the Mustang body. I have become a really huge fan of the Ford modular engine, as I feel it represents a world class engine with huge potential and power. It may strike a nerve to us, but what would be very acceptable in Europe would be a small Turbo Diesel engine option. Eco-boost is really a misleading name, as Ford probably intended it to be. The Eco-boost does not get very good fuel economy at all, in fact it is terrible. But what it does is two fold: One. It takes a small displacement engine and by pressurizing the intake track, makes much more power then expected. Two Fools people into thinking they have a small, but efficient fuel sipping engine. They do not, as it takes fuel to make power, and you can not get around that. A 2.3L engine by itself, with direct injection and the right gearing, and yes you would have a great fuel sipping engine, but that same engine would be a dog, and that is only made worse by the fact that you stuck a slow, underpowered engine in a car that looks fast. Expectations not meeting the real world performance.
I hope Ford continues to improve the small things. Better materials inside, more soft touch materials, and better fit and finish. I do think Ford has a really good paint program...many new cars, such as GM, have large unsightly " Orange Peel" in the paint. Ford in contrast, is very good in that department. Open up the Ford Racing parts catalog to more items. This valuable resource has been raided in the past years, and we have lost many, many Ford Modular engine parts. Please help with the lack of a source for new modular 4.6 and 5.4L blocks. These are all but gone and un-available. Same for the 4-Valve heads. The sport can not continue to grow, without a source for parts. This is just as important as selling new cars.
I trust Ford to do the right thing with the new body style, they have done so for over 50 years now.
You need to realize that you are a very small faction of the buying public. I'm sure if you took some research data acquisition, you would see that a majority ARE looking for these options. Not necessarily altogether, but in well designed packages.
As far as the Ecoboost engines not being efficient, I totally disagree there. My wife and I have 2014 Escape Titanium that is fabulous on gas in comparison to the non-Ecoboost edition I regularly drive at work. 23 mpg in town is far better than what we have been accustomed to.
Last edited by FordBlueHeart; 11/6/13 at 10:26 AM.
11/6/13, 12:56 PM
#827
Shelby GT350 Member
But Steve, in this case the parts are already there and built for more than just the Aluminator. No research or engineering effort is involved. Even in aftermarket trim the difference is only $1500. I don't see why this couldn't be a track pack option for $1800 to $2300? On top of a typical TP option. Or stand alone.
I get what you are saying but this is easy. Not like the Boss with new cams, intake, internals, valves, valve springs, etc.
I get what you are saying but this is easy. Not like the Boss with new cams, intake, internals, valves, valve springs, etc.
11/6/13, 01:27 PM
#828
But Steve, in this case the parts are already there and built for more than just the Aluminator. No research or engineering effort is involved. Even in aftermarket trim the difference is only $1500. I don't see why this couldn't be a track pack option for $1800 to $2300? On top of a typical TP option. Or stand alone.
I get what you are saying but this is easy. Not like the Boss with new cams, intake, internals, valves, valve springs, etc.
I get what you are saying but this is easy. Not like the Boss with new cams, intake, internals, valves, valve springs, etc.
11/6/13, 02:29 PM
#829
Shelby GT350 Member
If the Coyote has any sort of internal changes on the upcoming model, then additional R&D money must be spent. Also, how many people are going to shell out $500-1000 more for this option? How would you define it in the available options list? It's more complicated than you think.
It would be a very low number of purchases I'm sure. This the reason it doesn't happen unless in very specific models.
It would have to be like the old 5.0L HO with forged pistons. Something already in the engine and planned.
11/8/13, 12:32 PM
#830
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I would love a Shaker Hood option (not sure if this was mentioned before)! I wish I could have gotten that from Ford as an option on my Boss!
11/12/13, 02:37 AM
#833
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Well the next chally refresh supposedly is bringin shaker hoods back. But i mean the new ones look like a more bloated version of the classic so it works for them. Id rather see functional fender vents or a functional diffuser instead of a shaker.
11/12/13, 10:49 AM
#836
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I pretty much agree, shaker hoods on today's FI cars are archaic at best. Yes, they can be made to be "functional," however awkwardly it is to actually do so. Just look at the last Mustang shaker hood which ended up as some ungainly bump on a lump on a hump thing.
Simply speaking, shaker hoods ceased to make logical sense with the passing of the last carburetor. Better for Ford to make a more sensible, effective cold air intake system suited to the layout and plumbing of the Mustang's fuel injection system, which would not be a shaker hood setup. Retro's fine up to a point, that point being compromising actual functionality today.
Simply speaking, shaker hoods ceased to make logical sense with the passing of the last carburetor. Better for Ford to make a more sensible, effective cold air intake system suited to the layout and plumbing of the Mustang's fuel injection system, which would not be a shaker hood setup. Retro's fine up to a point, that point being compromising actual functionality today.
11/12/13, 05:15 PM
#837
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I pretty much agree, shaker hoods on today's FI cars are archaic at best. Yes, they can be made to be "functional," however awkwardly it is to actually do so. Just look at the last Mustang shaker hood which ended up as some ungainly bump on a lump on a hump thing.
Simply speaking, shaker hoods ceased to make logical sense with the passing of the last carburetor. Better for Ford to make a more sensible, effective cold air intake system suited to the layout and plumbing of the Mustang's fuel injection system, which would not be a shaker hood setup. Retro's fine up to a point, that point being compromising actual functionality today.
Simply speaking, shaker hoods ceased to make logical sense with the passing of the last carburetor. Better for Ford to make a more sensible, effective cold air intake system suited to the layout and plumbing of the Mustang's fuel injection system, which would not be a shaker hood setup. Retro's fine up to a point, that point being compromising actual functionality today.
11/12/13, 05:49 PM
#839
Mach 1 Member
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11/12/13, 05:55 PM
#840
LOL. I'm not happy with the creasing in it. I've tried a number of quality detailing products to restore them as best I can, and they don't look much better. I'd like something a little more robust. I'm not sure what quality control you can provide, but maybe if I'm in TC, you can give it a look.