Does anyone think Ford will step it up a bit??
I Have No Life
Joined: January 30, 2004
Posts: 10,446
Likes: 12
From: Canada
Why would they do that if it gets better fuel economy than its previous iteration and still attains 400hp?
(just sayin)
And what I was refering to is your dates are wrong... its not 2 years out.
(just sayin)
And what I was refering to is your dates are wrong... its not 2 years out.
Shelby GT500 Member
Joined: September 2, 2004
Posts: 2,594
Likes: 0
From: Chicago
i think too many people put the faith/thought in anything tuned at the ring.
Its a publicity/look at the size of my **** - stunt.
Here's why.
It's a public track that is a true test of a cars capabilities, that I'm not disagreeing with....
... but it is a public 'what can YOUR car do around this track' pissing match.
And while us on the internet LOVE to throw around any number that shows that 'our brand/car' is better than the next guy... all it really proves in the public eye is how fast that car can do around THAT track.
Who's to say that other manufacturer's don't have their top secret test track that is more grueling test of abilities and better? You don't know because...its ... wait for it.. top....secret.... (not saying they are.. just trying to make a point)
I can see why Ford doesn't get involved in such a pissing match...even though its fun to watch on a consumer side (moreso enthusiast side than anything)
I don't see when they sell a car exactly flaunting how well the car does at one specific track.... cause no one outside a very small community really cares and understands its mean.
It's a good tool for testing/tuning, but in the end, it doesn't have as much clout as people think.
It's a publicity stunt more than anything.
Its a publicity/look at the size of my **** - stunt.
Here's why.
It's a public track that is a true test of a cars capabilities, that I'm not disagreeing with....
... but it is a public 'what can YOUR car do around this track' pissing match.
And while us on the internet LOVE to throw around any number that shows that 'our brand/car' is better than the next guy... all it really proves in the public eye is how fast that car can do around THAT track.
Who's to say that other manufacturer's don't have their top secret test track that is more grueling test of abilities and better? You don't know because...its ... wait for it.. top....secret.... (not saying they are.. just trying to make a point)
I can see why Ford doesn't get involved in such a pissing match...even though its fun to watch on a consumer side (moreso enthusiast side than anything)
I don't see when they sell a car exactly flaunting how well the car does at one specific track.... cause no one outside a very small community really cares and understands its mean.
It's a good tool for testing/tuning, but in the end, it doesn't have as much clout as people think.
It's a publicity stunt more than anything.
Closet American
Joined: July 17, 2005
Posts: 5,851
Likes: 1
From: Vancouver, BC (Hollywood North)
i think too many people put the faith/thought in anything tuned at the ring.
Its a publicity/look at the size of my **** - stunt.
Here's why.
It's a public track that is a true test of a cars capabilities, that I'm not disagreeing with....
... but it is a public 'what can YOUR car do around this track' pissing match.
And while us on the internet LOVE to throw around any number that shows that 'our brand/car' is better than the next guy... all it really proves in the public eye is how fast that car can do around THAT track.
Who's to say that other manufacturer's don't have their top secret test track that is more grueling test of abilities and better? You don't know because...its ... wait for it.. top....secret.... (not saying they are.. just trying to make a point)
I can see why Ford doesn't get involved in such a pissing match...even though its fun to watch on a consumer side (moreso enthusiast side than anything)
I don't see when they sell a car exactly flaunting how well the car does at one specific track.... cause no one outside a very small community really cares and understands its mean.
It's a good tool for testing/tuning, but in the end, it doesn't have as much clout as people think.
It's a publicity stunt more than anything.
Its a publicity/look at the size of my **** - stunt.
Here's why.
It's a public track that is a true test of a cars capabilities, that I'm not disagreeing with....
... but it is a public 'what can YOUR car do around this track' pissing match.
And while us on the internet LOVE to throw around any number that shows that 'our brand/car' is better than the next guy... all it really proves in the public eye is how fast that car can do around THAT track.
Who's to say that other manufacturer's don't have their top secret test track that is more grueling test of abilities and better? You don't know because...its ... wait for it.. top....secret.... (not saying they are.. just trying to make a point)
I can see why Ford doesn't get involved in such a pissing match...even though its fun to watch on a consumer side (moreso enthusiast side than anything)
I don't see when they sell a car exactly flaunting how well the car does at one specific track.... cause no one outside a very small community really cares and understands its mean.
It's a good tool for testing/tuning, but in the end, it doesn't have as much clout as people think.
It's a publicity stunt more than anything.
I'm not saying performance manufacturers don't use the publicity to their advantage when marketing a car, but of course, that's ONLY effective if the car does WELL around the 'Ring. And if it does, then it's hard to argue with numbers.
MOTM Committee Member
Joined: April 17, 2006
Posts: 9,201
Likes: 2
From: SoCal
i think too many people put the faith/thought in anything tuned at the ring.
Its a publicity/look at the size of my **** - stunt.
Here's why.
It's a public track that is a true test of a cars capabilities, that I'm not disagreeing with....
... but it is a public 'what can YOUR car do around this track' pissing match.
And while us on the internet LOVE to throw around any number that shows that 'our brand/car' is better than the next guy... all it really proves in the public eye is how fast that car can do around THAT track.
Who's to say that other manufacturer's don't have their top secret test track that is more grueling test of abilities and better? You don't know because...its ... wait for it.. top....secret.... (not saying they are.. just trying to make a point)
I can see why Ford doesn't get involved in such a pissing match...even though its fun to watch on a consumer side (moreso enthusiast side than anything)
I don't see when they sell a car exactly flaunting how well the car does at one specific track.... cause no one outside a very small community really cares and understands its mean.
It's a good tool for testing/tuning, but in the end, it doesn't have as much clout as people think.
It's a publicity stunt more than anything.
Its a publicity/look at the size of my **** - stunt.
Here's why.
It's a public track that is a true test of a cars capabilities, that I'm not disagreeing with....
... but it is a public 'what can YOUR car do around this track' pissing match.
And while us on the internet LOVE to throw around any number that shows that 'our brand/car' is better than the next guy... all it really proves in the public eye is how fast that car can do around THAT track.
Who's to say that other manufacturer's don't have their top secret test track that is more grueling test of abilities and better? You don't know because...its ... wait for it.. top....secret.... (not saying they are.. just trying to make a point)
I can see why Ford doesn't get involved in such a pissing match...even though its fun to watch on a consumer side (moreso enthusiast side than anything)
I don't see when they sell a car exactly flaunting how well the car does at one specific track.... cause no one outside a very small community really cares and understands its mean.
It's a good tool for testing/tuning, but in the end, it doesn't have as much clout as people think.
It's a publicity stunt more than anything.
For example GM's battle with Nissan right now is stupid. The stock GTR went around faster than a Z06, but which would you rather own? The V-spec will probably beat the ZR1 too, but again which would you rather own/drive? Not to knock the GTR (its a great car), but it just goes to show that Nurburgring times have little real life meaning.
Bottom line is, the data is more than skewed and unreliable.
Hollywood North and max2000 have been missing my point all along. Of course under most situations IRS is a superior suspension. BUT, and this is a big but, given that the MAJORITY of mustang ENTHUSIAST buyers (not including the majority of buyers who just buy it for looks, style, etc) buy mustangs for their STRAIGHT LINE SPEED, and most importantly their relatively cheap price.
So the logical choice is to pick a cheaper to make lighter weight sra setup. It may not be better overall, but it takes care of what most buyers are looking for. And thats why mustang sales are still strong.
I'm sorry if its not what you guys are looking for, but the camaro and challenger will both have irs....so be my guest.
I'll say it again, if Ford can give me a '10 GT with 400hp 5.0L V8, six speed, at 3600lbs for $27k and i wont mind the stick axle
Closet American
Joined: July 17, 2005
Posts: 5,851
Likes: 1
From: Vancouver, BC (Hollywood North)
THANK YOU BOOMER. Finally some logic on this board! People love to quote Nurburgring times like its the greatest accomplishment in the world. Any company can test their car there for months and fine tune it specifically for that track, and then publish its fastest time over a 6 month testing period. I am personally glad Ford doesn't go into childish games like that.
For example GM's battle with Nissan right now is stupid. The stock GTR went around faster than a Z06, but which would you rather own? The V-spec will probably beat the ZR1 too, but again which would you rather own/drive? Not to knock the GTR (its a great car), but it just goes to show that Nurburgring times have little real life meaning.
Bottom line is, the data is more than skewed and unreliable.
Hollywood North and max2000 have been missing my point all along. Of course under most situations IRS is a superior suspension. BUT, and this is a big but, given that the MAJORITY of mustang ENTHUSIAST buyers (not including the majority of buyers who just buy it for looks, style, etc) buy mustangs for their STRAIGHT LINE SPEED, and most importantly their relatively cheap price.
So the logical choice is to pick a cheaper to make lighter weight sra setup. It may not be better overall, but it takes care of what most buyers are looking for. And thats why mustang sales are still strong.
I'm sorry if its not what you guys are looking for, but the camaro and challenger will both have irs....so be my guest.
I'll say it again, if Ford can give me a '10 GT with 400hp 5.0L V8, six speed, at 3600lbs for $27k and i wont mind the stick axle
For example GM's battle with Nissan right now is stupid. The stock GTR went around faster than a Z06, but which would you rather own? The V-spec will probably beat the ZR1 too, but again which would you rather own/drive? Not to knock the GTR (its a great car), but it just goes to show that Nurburgring times have little real life meaning.
Bottom line is, the data is more than skewed and unreliable.
Hollywood North and max2000 have been missing my point all along. Of course under most situations IRS is a superior suspension. BUT, and this is a big but, given that the MAJORITY of mustang ENTHUSIAST buyers (not including the majority of buyers who just buy it for looks, style, etc) buy mustangs for their STRAIGHT LINE SPEED, and most importantly their relatively cheap price.
So the logical choice is to pick a cheaper to make lighter weight sra setup. It may not be better overall, but it takes care of what most buyers are looking for. And thats why mustang sales are still strong.
I'm sorry if its not what you guys are looking for, but the camaro and challenger will both have irs....so be my guest.
I'll say it again, if Ford can give me a '10 GT with 400hp 5.0L V8, six speed, at 3600lbs for $27k and i wont mind the stick axle
1) Ferrari, Porsche, Aston Martin, Nissan, Chevy, Cadillac, etc are hardly companies playing "childish games" by testing their cars on the toughest circuit in the world.
2) No one is saying that one car is "better" than another because it goes 'round the 'Ring faster. But it IS definitive proof of better performance. Period. End of story.
3) Where is your empirical data to back up your assertion that the majority of buyers buy Mustangs for straight line performance? Have you done a survey to prove this? Otherwise, you're basing your argument on "urban legend," nothing more.
4) Revealed by their last Mustang survey, Ford could have easily offered the IRS suspension in the S197 for very little more than what we're paying right now. We're basically paying IRS prices but getting a spruce log suspension. So the public ain't saving much - if any - money here.
Again, ask yourself this fundamental question: Why does NO other performance car IN THE WORLD use a girder for a rear suspension? Probably for the same reason that you wouldn't go running down the street as fast as you could with your shoelaces tied together.
Shelby GT500 Member
Joined: September 2, 2004
Posts: 2,594
Likes: 0
From: Chicago
Hollywood North and max2000 have been missing my point all along. Of course under most situations IRS is a superior suspension. BUT, and this is a big but, given that the MAJORITY of mustang ENTHUSIAST buyers (not including the majority of buyers who just buy it for looks, style, etc) buy mustangs for their STRAIGHT LINE SPEED, and most importantly their relatively cheap price.
So the logical choice is to pick a cheaper to make lighter weight sra setup. It may not be better
So the logical choice is to pick a cheaper to make lighter weight sra setup. It may not be better
I Have No Life
Joined: January 30, 2004
Posts: 10,446
Likes: 12
From: Canada
What do you honestly think people would ask if Ford tested the mustang there and chevy the camaro? 'who won and what was the time' and a lot of them would soley base their thought process on who posted the better time, not taking ANYTHING else into consideration.
____ car is better, because it went faster around the track.
From a manufacturer's standpoint, to gauge tuning, improvements and how well they are doing with a car, absolutely...
Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying they shouldn't test there or anything....
but people get way too hung up on times.
(specifically when the manufacturer in question isn't using 100% stock spec cars... that is my biggest beef)
Just 2 people work out at different gyms, one being public, one being in their basement....doesn't mean they can't accomplish the same set OR similar set of goals.
MOTM Committee Member
Joined: April 17, 2006
Posts: 9,201
Likes: 2
From: SoCal
You're missing OUR points, entirely, which are as follows >>
1) Ferrari, Porsche, Aston Martin, Nissan, Chevy, Cadillac, etc are hardly companies playing "childish games" by testing their cars on the toughest circuit in the world.
2) No one is saying that one car is "better" than another because it goes 'round the 'Ring faster. But it IS definitive proof of better performance. Period. End of story.
3) Where is your empirical data to back up your assertion that the majority of buyers buy Mustangs for straight line performance? Have you done a survey to prove this? Otherwise, you're basing your argument on "urban legend," nothing more.
4) Revealed by their last Mustang survey, Ford could have easily offered the IRS suspension in the S197 for very little more than what we're paying right now. We're basically paying IRS prices but getting a spruce log suspension. So the public ain't saving much - if any - money here.
Again, ask yourself this fundamental question: Why does NO other performance car IN THE WORLD use a girder for a rear suspension? Probably for the same reason that you wouldn't go running down the street as fast as you could with your shoelaces tied together.
1) Ferrari, Porsche, Aston Martin, Nissan, Chevy, Cadillac, etc are hardly companies playing "childish games" by testing their cars on the toughest circuit in the world.
2) No one is saying that one car is "better" than another because it goes 'round the 'Ring faster. But it IS definitive proof of better performance. Period. End of story.
3) Where is your empirical data to back up your assertion that the majority of buyers buy Mustangs for straight line performance? Have you done a survey to prove this? Otherwise, you're basing your argument on "urban legend," nothing more.
4) Revealed by their last Mustang survey, Ford could have easily offered the IRS suspension in the S197 for very little more than what we're paying right now. We're basically paying IRS prices but getting a spruce log suspension. So the public ain't saving much - if any - money here.
Again, ask yourself this fundamental question: Why does NO other performance car IN THE WORLD use a girder for a rear suspension? Probably for the same reason that you wouldn't go running down the street as fast as you could with your shoelaces tied together.
2) You said "let ford run a mustang round the ring and we'll see what the better car is"
3) I don't need empirical data, it's common knowledge. We all know you'll see more mustangs at the drag strip then on a road course on any given day. If you don't agree, fine.
4) Got proof? Please provide a link because I remember hearing it would be a lot more expensive
Lastly, true the mustang is the only performance car with a sra. but it is also the cheapest V8 and the most bang for the buck
Really? cause that's what most people do with those times... and what other purpose do those times serve (being published) OTHER than to compare cars? Its what they are there for and the reason they do it. (PUB-LICITY)
What do you honestly think people would ask if Ford tested the mustang there and chevy the camaro? 'who won and what was the time' and a lot of them would soley base their thought process on who posted the better time, not taking ANYTHING else into consideration.
____ car is better, because it went faster around the track.
From a manufacturer's standpoint, to gauge tuning, improvements and how well they are doing with a car, absolutely...
Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying they shouldn't test there or anything....
but people get way too hung up on times.
(specifically when the manufacturer in question isn't using 100% stock spec cars... that is my biggest beef)
Just 2 people work out at different gyms, one being public, one being in their basement....doesn't mean they can't accomplish the same set OR similar set of goals.
What do you honestly think people would ask if Ford tested the mustang there and chevy the camaro? 'who won and what was the time' and a lot of them would soley base their thought process on who posted the better time, not taking ANYTHING else into consideration.
____ car is better, because it went faster around the track.
From a manufacturer's standpoint, to gauge tuning, improvements and how well they are doing with a car, absolutely...
Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying they shouldn't test there or anything....
but people get way too hung up on times.
(specifically when the manufacturer in question isn't using 100% stock spec cars... that is my biggest beef)
Just 2 people work out at different gyms, one being public, one being in their basement....doesn't mean they can't accomplish the same set OR similar set of goals.
Look I'm done arguing with you guys because we are not going to see eye to eye. We all agree IRS is important, I just don't care about it as much as you guys do. Unfortunately it will not be on the '10 mustang. Maybe in '14 or '15.
Shelby GT500 Member
Joined: September 2, 2004
Posts: 2,594
Likes: 0
From: Chicago
The "Mustang Enthusiast" still doesn't care about drag racing. Most Mustang's will never see a drag strip. In reality(the public streets), an IRS is king. With Chevy and Chrysler going to an IRS, Ford will have to follow. I don't understand why there is such an opposition to an IRS rear. Using your same logic, drum brakes are fine or better yet leaf springs. We are in 2008, so Ford should build us a car with modern technolgy!
Post *****
Joined: February 3, 2004
Posts: 14,160
Likes: 73
The "Mustang Enthusiast" still doesn't care about drag racing. Most Mustang's will never see a drag strip. In reality(the public streets), an IRS is king. With Chevy and Chrysler going to an IRS, Ford will have to follow. I don't understand why there is such an opposition to an IRS rear. Using your same logic, drum brakes are fine or better yet leaf springs. We are in 2008, so Ford should build us a car with modern technolgy!
And while I will agree most Mustangs will never see a drag strip, Mustangs are high in numbers (if not the majority in areas) at many strips across the nation. That being said I race 2-5 times a year at the strip. Usually 1-2 T-n-T and the others in a series specific to stick-shift cars. I have seriously thought about swapping the Mach's rear to IRS. Maybe I will maybe I won't. If not, a panhard is in my future to compliment my other suspension/chassis mods (front and rear.)
Thread Starter
Bullitt Member
Joined: December 21, 2006
Posts: 424
Likes: 0
Well, I don't care if it has EVER has an IRS or not. They COULD and SHOULD tighten it up a bit on the handling but it's pretty decent for daily use in my opinion. I'm a Mustang enthusiast. If I like it and can afford it, I'm buying it. I just don't want to HAVE to go to the after-market for stopping power. It doesn't even have to be superb.(aka Corvette) Just great... Mustangs have had weak behind brakes since the Foxes and it is past time for Ford to put an end to that.. Just sayin'.
Regardless of any fact or fiction or rumor or poll or survey, Ford is going release a refreshed Mustang in 2009. What they or anyone does with it is their perogative. All though I am impressed at the professionalism of this argument, as most on here get pretty silly pretty quick, I will be buying a Mustang for one reason and one reason alone.
It's a Mustang. That's it. That's the only reason I am buying it. I love Mustangs. Regardless of that they have or don't have or what's better or worse in comparison to this, that or the other things. It's never going to be the top dog, top-o-the-line car because it was never meant to be. I don't care about gas mileage or all the other things that Ford CAN and COULD and SHOULD and HAVEN'T done to the car. It's still a Mustang and as long as there is one to love, I will love it. Simple as that. I thought that is what us enthusiasts were here for? To love the car. Not bash it for what it's lacking. Save that for our competition.
Personally, I can't wait to leave this horrible country so I can get back to America and enjoy SEEING the car I so love. I think everyone over in the States now needs to take a few seconds and be thankful for what they have sitting in their driveways. Go out and take spin for me. It's going to be a while be for I can.
Stangs & Stars 4E
It's a Mustang. That's it. That's the only reason I am buying it. I love Mustangs. Regardless of that they have or don't have or what's better or worse in comparison to this, that or the other things. It's never going to be the top dog, top-o-the-line car because it was never meant to be. I don't care about gas mileage or all the other things that Ford CAN and COULD and SHOULD and HAVEN'T done to the car. It's still a Mustang and as long as there is one to love, I will love it. Simple as that. I thought that is what us enthusiasts were here for? To love the car. Not bash it for what it's lacking. Save that for our competition.
Personally, I can't wait to leave this horrible country so I can get back to America and enjoy SEEING the car I so love. I think everyone over in the States now needs to take a few seconds and be thankful for what they have sitting in their driveways. Go out and take spin for me. It's going to be a while be for I can.
Stangs & Stars 4E
Mach 1 Member
Joined: July 22, 2007
Posts: 704
Likes: 1
From: "SW" Iowa
Got to Agree with Ice on this one!
Well said Bro! And thankyou for serving!! I think my own sons military group Motto says it quite well with. "Semper Fi". Which directly translates to "Always Faithful" No offense to the U.S. Army, as I am a Nam Vet myself! But this could also apply well towards the feelings of a lot of Mustang owners for this great and well loved 45 year old American Pony!! "Carry On". CalStang 
Well said Bro! And thankyou for serving!! I think my own sons military group Motto says it quite well with. "Semper Fi". Which directly translates to "Always Faithful" No offense to the U.S. Army, as I am a Nam Vet myself! But this could also apply well towards the feelings of a lot of Mustang owners for this great and well loved 45 year old American Pony!! "Carry On". CalStang
Until we all get home, go out and have fun for all of us over here. Take a drive for America and her troops. Go US!
Closet American
Joined: July 17, 2005
Posts: 5,851
Likes: 1
From: Vancouver, BC (Hollywood North)
Oh, I can almost guarantee you it'll be on the '14 car.
Closet American
Joined: July 17, 2005
Posts: 5,851
Likes: 1
From: Vancouver, BC (Hollywood North)
I think you forgot a couple of words at the beginning of your sentence. Should look like this >>
"True or false: live axel is much better for launching...street or strip?"
Answer: False.
See BMW M5 for further details.
"True or false: live axel is much better for launching...street or strip?"
Answer: False.
See BMW M5 for further details.