You're a big silly.

 

Thanks, I'll take that as a compliment

 

As it was intended, sir.

 

It's funny, having seen both the "new" Camaro and the "new"Challenger, I don't think much of either design. They both have the look of "OMG the mustang is killing us we got to do something...quick!" Either that or the parents of both design team were once scared by Popeye the Sailor. So far the Ford boys have been able to keep a decent front end profile, which the others lack... Maybe it was Kirk Douglas they were scared of?

 

I think both the new Camaro and Challenger are very impressive efforts, actually. The Challenger looks fantastic, though it is a bit too big.

The new Camaro is the best looking one since 1969.

All of which is, of course, just my 2 cents.

No doubt, however, that neither would exist were it not for the S197 Stang.

 

And it's such an honor and privilege, to know you as a fellow Mustang enthusiast

 

Check out this thread: http://forums.bradbarnett.net/showthread.php?t=471671

to see how much the 2010 Mustang needs to "step up" to beat the '09 Challenger R/T

 

That is awesome! The 2010 will AT LEAST be running bullitt numbers, and the 2011 with the 5.0 will absolutely destroy the R/T and maybe even the SRT8! I also love how the V6 SE limps through the quarter mile in 16.1

I don't think we have much to worry about.

 

As I've said all along, the real competitor for the Mustang will be the Camaro, not the Challenger. The latter is simply too big and unwieldy to compete with the 2010 Mustang.

 

I don’t understand why the Ford “loyal” are afraid of change and competition. In the end, competition makes a better end product. Ford has had the “muscle car” market to itself for too long and has become complacent. That same type of arrogance is the reason why the stock and company is in the toilet.

I work hard for my money and am going to buy the best product. The badge or brand means nothing to me

 

A. I've yet to see anyone here "afraid" of competition, I see alot of people standing up for th 'Stang because they like it and they don't think the 2010 Camaro is the quantum leap you seem to think it is. In your opinion the new Camaro may have it all over the Mustang, but plenty of us think the 2010 or 2011 Mustang will be right there, showing its taillights to the new kid.

B. There's plenty to find fault with in Ford but I find it completely absurd to accuse them of becoming complacent with the 'Stang. Not only did they bring the best Mustangs in decades to market AFTER everyone else had abandoned the segment, not only have they rolled out a bevy of SE cars despite having almost no competition, but now they're rolling out a mid-life update that will have some pretty epic updates when all is said and done. The Bowtie and Ram think they can rely on overweight hand-me-down engines and platforms to just out-number the Blue Oval, but we've already seen how one of those two has come up short against the current 'Stang and I wouldn't bet that the other's going to fare as well as you seem to think.

 

I don't see many praising the competition on this board. Instead, they find the faults. I admit that the Camaro is a bit heavy for my tastes, but GM is backing it up with a great engine. Ford currently doesn't have anything to match GM, so we need to sitback and see if the rumors are true. I am skeptical and will wait until Ford publicly publishes the SAE J2723 numbers.

I was more refering to the complacent attitude within the Ford organization. Ford has done very poorly in planning for the future. This is the reason why Ford is in dire straights internally. Catering the Mustang to the Ford faithful works, but building a better car will ultimately move the bar higher in terms of sales. You've got plenty of competition that will be out there attempting to erode the Mustang's market share. Heck, even Hyundai has a competitive RWD car coming out.

 

I was thinking abut that car, Renesis, I think it is called. Will have a 300 hp v6.

 

max, what's to praise? You may like the new camaro and challenger, but I am personally not impressed. While the challenger looks good, it is slower and has worse handling than the CURRENT mustang at EVERY trim level. And that is with the "almighty IRS", put simply it just weighs too much. And if it can't compete with the current mustang, then I can only imagine what the new one will do...

As for the camaro, all of my beefs with the car are based on my personal tastes. So I will wait until GM releases official pricing info before I give them credit for doing anything right. And from what GM has stated already, it'll be pretty expensive and probably not worth the extra cash over a mustang


If anyone wants to buy a Hyundai Genisis over a Mustang they can be my guest

 

Thank you sir and well said!GM and Dodge are on that same bandwagon, so apparent as they too thought, Ford must be on to something with the Mustang and that's why they had to scramble back. Like I said; Here today, gone tomorrow... Again, just like the GTO.. NO FEAR!

 

I have yet to see them both tested on a road course. Do you have a link of such a test?

In real world handling, the Mustang suffers due to its dated rear suspension. The mag tests that I've read state this. In the end, the Challenger is too heavy. I agree with that 100%.

 

Yeah Hyundai is coming out with a rear drive competitor to "jump on the bandwagon"... Hey, why don't WE get a piece of the "affordable muscle" rock?? And they should. Do you see what the Mustang is doing my friend? This car is a flat out phenomenon It's bringing out the competition.. It's an affordable standard bearer Max. Us bringing out the short comings of the car we love may keep the Ford engineers on they toes. If we don't, the competition will and you know doggone well they read these Mustang forums. I don't believe Ford will sit back and let the competition snuff them out. They been at this game too long. Don't sweat it cause we got something for the 6.1 AND 6.2... It's call a 5.0 and it's gonna be on big-time! Like the old 1970 Mercury Cyclone advertisement says: "We made it hot. (Ford) You can make it scream."(us) And that's exactly what we do.

 

No road course test yet. But the Bullit slalomed 5mph faster than a Challenger R/T and about 1 mph faster than a SRT-8.

Check Edmunds InsideLine for the review

 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but this is a MUSTANG forum. People who are generally on here are biased towards...MUSTANGS because they really like...MUSTANGS. Why is this such a hard thing to understand? There has been a lot of BS about some people being biased or too "brand loyal" but the point of a MUSTANG forum is to share your passions about MUSTANGS. If you want a more objective viewpoint, go to a Motor Trend/Edmunds/Car and Driver (ie a more general automobile forum). That's not to say that the MUSTANG doesn't have it's shortcomings or that the Camaro or whatever isn't better in some ways, it's just that people here tend to like MUSTANGS better. Sometimes for the same reasons they like pepperoni over Hawaiian, or New York over L.A. simply because it's their personal opinion. You are not going to find a very objective opinion in a MUSTANG FORUM.

I'm pretty sure the 05-09 is leaps and bounds ahead of the previous car...and HAS sold more, probably to a lot of people who are not "Ford faithful".

 

Jason, first let me start out by saying. I have nothing personal against the new Challenger, and upcoming 2010 Camaro, nor am I afraid of change.

The fact, is I've always loved Mustangs ever since I was a kid growing up back in the mid sixties. In addition, I've also owned 4 Mustangs prior to my current 05 GT, and although I realize the S-197 isn't perfect, it's definitely light years ahead of the previous SN-95 generation, with of course the exception of the 03-04 SVT Cobra, which had an IRS.


As for the current S-197, is concerned. Well of course I'd prefer if it had an available IRS, for I'd be complete a fool, if I had claimed otherwise. However, I'm also not going to abandon the Mustang, just because it still has an SRA.


The bottom line, is this. I've waited this long without having an IRS, so just waiting another 4-5 years, surely isn't going to kill me lol.

At any rate, yes I'll fully admit that I'm a loyal Mustang enthusiast, in which I've hopefully explained my reasons clearly. For it's truly because I just love Mustangs, and don't really need anything better.


In the meantime, I hope this clears up any misinterpretations on my part.