shwaco1967

We all have been getting information on these wonderful engines and great horsepower boost coming down the line in the 2010-2011 Mustangs. Well with the competition from Chevy and Dodge bringing IRS and great brakes to the table, I began to wonder if Ford will step it up in the handling AND braking department.

Even with the stick axle, I would love to see the 10-11 give them a run for their money. Based upon what I have read when the 05 hit the streets, a better tire set up helped out a lot. What is your take on this and this subject been brought up yet?

stangfoeva

Although I am hopeful, I don't know for sure yet about the 2010 performance wise since many seem to indicate it will carry the carryover 4.6 . I'm sure that the stang will definitely be able to compete and even best the competition if/when the 400hp 5.0L arrives.

As for the camaro and challenger having better brakes, well at around 4000 lbs they definitly need them

bpmurr

The car I'm worried about is the Camaro. It takes the SRT8 Challenger to beat the current Mustang GT. The Challenger is a great looking car though.

shwaco1967

Yeah, the Camaro is my main concern well. Plus the fact that the first dart that most magazines will throw, is the fact the Mustang doesn't have IRS. No IRS debate here. I don't mind whatever the set up is but in my opinion, I hope they beef up handling to include the tires and brakes.

All I see is a freshened face and better motors, which is absolutely not a bad thing by no means.. But the total package would be nice. Here's to hoping. (P.S. Still gonna buy one though.)

97GT03SVT

I have a feeling that the new Mustang will be outperformed by the Camaro, like it did in the last gen. I'm talking 1/4, braking and handling. This performance of the Camaro will come at a great cost though... But, Ford will probably win the bang for the buck category as usual. I'm betting that the next gen Mustang will keep about the same MSRP, perhaps adjust for inflation like they did when Ford switched from the 04' model to the 05'. I'm a Mustang guy 100% but i'm glad to have worthy competition as a bargaining chip when I stroll into the dealership to buy my next Mustang. Maybe even pick up a low mile 07-09 GT500 getting traded in for the new stang!

m05fastbackGT

I think your really onto something there, as GT500's are already being offered at MSRP in my local area. That being said, I'm pretty confident that once current GT500 owners trade in their 07-09 models for the new 2010 makeover. Dealers will then offer the 07-09 models at below MSRP, in order to make room for the new 2010's.

At any rate: IMHO, it would seem you have a very excellent chance in picking up a low mileage 07-09 GT500 at below MSRP

hi5.0

2 words after this: They better...

jsaylor

My take? For all the internet hooplah GM left the door wide open for the Mustang. The Camaro is over-sized and over-weight casting a footprint more in keeping with a new age Chevelle than a Camaro. What we already know about the Mustang tells us that Ford is stepping up their game in sufficient measure to leave Chevy gasping for breath. The Camaro's 6.2L LS3 will pack more torque than the Mustang's 400+hp, 5.0L V8, but it won't have any more hp (the LS3 may not have as much) and by this point we know that the weight difference is going to be over 300lb with my bet being a solid 400lb weight difference between the two cars.

That same weight problem is also going to hamper any advantage the IRS brings to the table. Live axle debate aside the Mustang rides on a very well developed chassis with a very well executed mac strut IFS and exceptional steering. Throw in better brakes and what is apparently going to be a notable improvement over the best SRA design ever developed and it seems unlikely that the far portlier Camaro is going to be able to make enough of any advantage granted by the IRS to actually best the Mustang in terms of handling. In fact, I think the opposite to be far more likely. I do think the Camaro will have a better ride than the Mustang if not by a huge margin, but it wont be enough to offset what is almost certainly going to be night and day distinction in how nimble these cars are.

I think the Mustang GT is virtually assured to hold a notable performance advantage over the Mustang in every aspect of performance with the possible exception of braking. If Ford gets this one right it could be lights out for the Camaro all over again.....possibly on a permanent basis.

shwaco1967

Agreed jsaylor. Personally, I think Ford should step it up a bit in the brake department. Other than that, our ride through out the years up til 2002 has always been able to hold it's own. That ain't changing when the once again "new jacks" hit the streets.

To me, the Camaro and Challenger are here today, gone tomorrow cars: Almost like a novelty;get em while ya can. And the Mustang will once again stand alone... A beautiful thing indeed. None the less your take on this makes sense. Thanks!

steve-o

I have an 07 GT and have always been disappointed with the OEM brakes. That being said, this (along with what has already been mentioned, ie. 5.0) would be a surefire killer for the Camaro. My ideal solution would be to make the mass produced current GT500 brakes as the standard GT setup in 2010. This would be easy to do, and cost efficient since the R&D is already done and the parts have been used in the thousands on the current GT500. And then the next gen GT500 could utilize a beefier 14" Cross-drilled/Slotted setup as it's upgrade from the standard GT. That would do fine, no?

shwaco1967

That would be a sweet and cost effective set up for sure. If my memory serves me correct, I think it was either on this forum or in my latest MM and FF mag, the GT brakes were swapped out for a set of GT 500 brakes. Imagine those binders stopping a car that's 300 or so pounds lighter..

max2000jp

Weight doesn't matter as much as you think. Proper suspension geometry is what counts and Ford will be behind Chevy in that regards. Ford is the only company that builds a sporty car with a SRA and it's due to cost. SRA is an inferior setup, no matter how you spin it. A Watts Link is a step up from the current Panhard setup, but a IRS would be ideal.

stangfoeva

i disagree. weight matters just as much to handling as the suspension setup. put the most sophisticated irs on an expedition and see if it will outhandle a mustang with a sra.

if i had to choose between an overweight car with irs vs a lighter one with an sra, ill take the sra everytime. it just doesnt make sense for ford to offer it when the majority of mustang owners dont care

Knight

2 cars that have proved weight weight doesn't matter as much as one would think is the nissan GTR and the Ferrari 599. Both are very porky but have outstanding handling due to properly done suspension and chassis.

MBK

the toyota AE86 had SRA and its one of the best cars for Auto-X

max2000jp

Quote:

Originally Posted by Knight

2 cars that have proved weight weight doesn't matter as much as one would think is the nissan GTR and the Ferrari 599. Both are very porky but have outstanding handling due to properly done suspension and chassis.

Exactly, on paper a Z06 should smoke a GTR. It’s 500+ lbs lighter. On the racetrack, that assumption is proven wrong. I just wish that Ford would give us some modern technology in the Mustang. It seems like the engine and transmission front will see that in 2011, but the suspension is stuck in the stone-age. It’s sad because the overall platform is stiff, which makes a good foundation. I’d love to see a SLA front/IRS rear Mustang compete with true sports cars, but undercut them by tens of thousands.

MBK

yeah because the dang computer is driving for you in the GTR

max2000jp

It still takes a lot talent to drive the car at the limit. Most people won't come close to the limits of that car on the track because they simply don't have the talent level. Now on the street, people will find that they have more courage than talent

jsaylor

MBK is onto something with his response. Both the Ferrari and the Nissan employ mega-buck computer systems which control every aspect of the cars performance. Further, the Nissan uses AWD and AWS systems while the Ferrari is a quarter million dollar, purpose built sport car which benefits from all the exotic materials and bespoke components that brings to the table. So yes, if throw enough money and tech at a 4000lb car it can handle like a dream but that doesn't downplay the importance of weight. Camaro benefits from none of those.

I am extraordinarily uninterested in revising the IRS versus SRA debate which has been beaten to death by this juncture. The reality is that a slightly lighter, and arguably better sorted, Mustang GT out-handled the GTO by the numbers despite a minimal weight difference compared to what we have coming with the Camaro due to several reasons. Given the now huge weight disparity between the Camaro and Mustang I'll stick by my prediction here.......given what we know the 2011 Mustang GT will beat the **** out of the Camaro on a road course.

max2000jp

The Z06 uses exotic materials and was designed alongside the C6R. Nissan did a hell of a job removing the negatives of the curb weight. Both the Z06 and GTR are in the same price range. Like I mentioned, on paper the Z06 should smoke the GTR.

The Camaro benefits from two things. A more sophisticated suspension and track testing. GM revised the suspension and brakes after their initial trip to the Ring. The SS ran an 8:20, which was faster than an E46 M3.

Speaking of the M3, the new one handles very well for its added curb weight. BMW did a great job tuning the car’s suspension. Hopefully, Ford will learn a thing or two from the competition and apply it to the refresh.