AnotherMustangMan

Haha, sorry dude. I was venting. lol.

MSP

I'm quite sure Road&Track is feaverously trying to get their hands on a CS6 to do a track testing session for all the non-believers.. If the course is tight, then it will provide some good info.. If there are alot of long straights, you may have a point.. I think SearsPoint, or otherwise called Infineon Raceway would be a good track to test it out on.. Or perhaps Laguna Seca..

I have no idea why you have pitted an 03-04 Cobra up against the Nimble CS6.. Is it that you do somehow come to the conclusion that it may be a worthwhile little Mustang? I just dont understand why you chose an 03-04 Cobra for the job.. What other Mustangs do you think can give the CS6 a run for its money?

AnotherMustangMan

I already said it was a cool idea and therefore substantiating it as "worthwhile."

As to what other Mustangs (presumably you mean stock) can give the decidedly not-stock CS6 a run for its money:

I dunno, we havent seen any performance #s on the "Nimble worthwhile little CS6" now have we?


And to Jimp, youre right. The CS6 and tuned Terminator haven't raced, so I shouldn't predict the Terminator victory as fact. Just as I have never arm wrestled the Governator, so I should not assume I would lose.

My prediction was made by something called extrapolation, where empirical evidence is taken into consideration to forecast events or behavioral trends. Not hopes and bs fueled "the CS6 would too beat a Cobra!" claims.

What we need is a Cobra/05 owner in here.

BurntPony

CS6 = Big Joke

MSP

The problem stems from a standpoint of introduction, not intended to, but perceived as threatening.. This means, you injected the Cobra into the discussion of your own free will, when most were content to debate the 3 afformentioned vehicles, based on price, year, and performance..

Your need to do this, stems from an involuntary reaction to that of debate, seek, and attempt to destroy. Most of us, really dont come here to argue.. You on the other hand, advance and target at will a subject you deem worthy of confrontation.. This of course would be me.. This is proven by the fact that you made a very calculated and well thought out plan to engage upon me all this BS, you seem to think I give a rats azz about.. Unfortunately for you my friend, or foe, whichever you prefer, I feel a slight irratation with you, and do not feel the need to engage upon you a discussion, that I distinctly asked you to avoid earlier on.. When you made the reference to me as making retarded statements, this proved to everyone how much you desire my input, and feel a slight rejection, because I chose to ignore your rude and obnoxious style of debate.. Inserting personal attacks once every other paragraph..

Now I will debate with you, if you can refrain from insulting statements against me, hidden in a paragraph of utter nonsese and arrogant speculation..

ManEHawke

care to back this up a bit more. Why do you think the Cobra would outlap/outhandle an S197 with equal power.

Yeah, we win because of our raw power, we would die if those bimmers were at our power level.

lets not get personal, I don't see why this can't be an enjoyable discussion. It was to me until that statement. I am well aware of the Cobra's well balanced setup, but we can't ignore the ridgid and stiff shell on the S197. I am not against the Cobra, we are in the same team, but acknowledging that a Fox platform with loads of suspension goodies are on par with the S197 isn't a hard concept to believe. But it is a fact that the S197 is the best handling mass production Mustang to date.

That makes it far superior than ANY SN95 (gotta love it), but now onto the S197 playing field. Let's look at it that way.


Dave, I don't need enemy's online, I am pretty leniant. Now we can end this discussion if more "venting or anger" is shown. Doing your part will make TMS a better place

Rampant

I am sorry, but exactly why do you think the CS6 will be so nimble? It's springs/dampers/sways? Or its estimated (by me) roughly 35 pounds of weight savings over a stock GT? (stock difference ~110#, blower typically ~75#, difference ~35#) That is not even talking about the much heavier brakes or wheels. So, uh, well, EVERY '05 GT with similar suspension mods should be right there (especially as the higher torque and higher gears may be able to close the hp gap). And they are ~$6k less.

Just becuase it has a Shelby name on it doesn't mean it is a handling machine. Get over the hype. He derserved it "back in the day," but this is no longer "back in the day." Let his reputation remain where it belongs -- on the old cars.

Now, if they put in an AL block and some cf bits......
it would be even MORE expensive (but darn fun IMHO).

I give them credit for doing somethings controversial as starting with a V6, but I just don't see the rationale behind it. No weight savings and penalties in the driveline, upgradability and reliabilty.

Not to say it isn't cool, but let's keep an honest perspective about things.

AnotherMustangMan

Funny that you complain about "inserting personal attacks once every other paragraph."

I just loved reading your rant about how Mike (from powerhouse) is misleading everyone. By publishing #s from a test, Mike remember, was just being dishonest. I wish he (Mike) would just lay the cards on the table. Give it to us like it is, Mike. Why would Mike turn on the V6 and take sides, that was a bad call, Mike.

Its cool though, I mean were all buddies here. We are just talking.

MSP

Mike never admitted to us any timing chain problems.. But sense you have not kept up, you wouldnt know that..

MSP

Pick up the conversation from here Rampant!! Which begins a few pages back.

Rampant

Sorry, by bad. This board moves much to quick for me.

scrming

Not to go off topic... but... I don't think there is a timing chain problem... talking with another former Ford engineer this week.... he estimates the 4.0L good for 400 to 450 HP... that's a far cry from the naysayers who think the 4.0L will self destruct with the slighest tweak in power... and of course the fact that you get a warranty with your new CS6 tend to back that up in my mind...

MSP

Me either.. I mean, unless Mike did have some problems which were not mentioned, I have not seen any 2005 Mustang owners with any problems.. Now most of the power-adders are just coming to market within the last 3 months.. But that should be enough time for timing chain issues to trickle dowwn.. Also, I am quite sure all the manufacturers of the power-adders have done their homework on the 2005 Mustang SOHC 4.0 design.. If such issues did arise, then most likley you would see aftermarket parts which addressed this issue, and are parts which are also upgraded along with adding the blowers..

As you know Scrming, my belief has always been from a stand point of a capable 400RWHP to the SOHC 4.0.. Your statement gets me closer to that belief.. We are probaby 1 or 2 years off from this being more common place..

Thomas S

I think you are absolutely correct MSP. Even though the power adders are fairly new to the market, they have been in development for some time. Most of the manufacturers are going to push the 4.0 for all it's worth, just to see what they can get. I'm feeling better all the time about the 4.0.

rygenstormlocke

Wow, look what I miss when I am gone for a majority of 24 hours. It took me quite awhile just to catch up on the posts!

About the timing chain problem, I asked my mechanic the same thing and he said he doubts they will be an issue. Even under stress Ford wouldn't put them in that way unless it was reliable. Also, just thinking about it, wouldn't the guys at supersixmotorsports catch this one? When it comes to pushing a V6 mustang for all it's worth, they are one of the best. I would imagine they would have published something about it so they can come up with some parts to sell to make up for it, like they do everything else. So, to me it seems the chains are a complication…but not a problem. And I have dealt with enough auto mechanics that if it is a complication, they will stay away from it or say it will not work properly.

The 2005 V6 is a controversial automobile, though most do not want to accept it; it is true. I say this because I have a forum membership on about 6 mustang boards, and the V6/V8 debates erupt most in the 05 section. Reason being, because the 4.0 has real performance potential. So does the 3.8, but with the 4.0 you don’t have to do nearly as much to get it there. Also combine this with the fact that it is faster or in the same class as a significant number of 5.0’s out there and then the testosterone wars begin! My research also shows that the 4.0 is a cast iron block, so my guess is it is possible to reach 400RWHP. Isn’t the 05 GT a aluminum block??????

Sooo, we were on the topic of handling of the CS6, while we don’t have the exact specifics, we do have this from the Shelby web site:

“What we have created is an intercooled, supercharged V6 Mustang that will eat up any stock V8 Mustang GT on the road today in the areas of raw acceleration, top speed, quarter-mile ET, cornering, and braking, and look fantastic doing it. We are scheduled to start upgrading customers' V6 Mustangs on March 1, 2006. Check our website for an order form soon, and let the new legend begin!�

We know the stock 05 GT handles very well, arguably the best handling late model Mustang to date. So, what we need is the specifics of what they did to the CS6 to make it out handle a stock GT. They must have done road tests to back up this statement; we just need the meat and potatoes of it to continue our review.

So really, we are in a waiting game at this point.

Rampant

I wouldn't count on it. Marketing people never need facts to make blanket statements like "our car will outhandle stock cars." That really isn't saying much anyway. Now, outhandle any aftermarket car, that might be a different story.

It will be interesting to see what they final specs are, but I wouldn't expect anything beyond the standard springs/dampers/sways/optional brakes though (maybe bushings). We will see.....

Man, I can't wait for the CS6 vs. Saleen vs. Steeda vs. Roush showdown. 1/4's AND road course. Some mag has got to put this together soon.

AnotherMustangMan

Sweet, another guy with a brain!

JK everyone, I meant that as a joke...

But really Rampant, Its good to see someone else who thinks.

MSP

Atleast you have an open mind to the entire subject Rampant, which should be respected..

@Raginstormlock

In regards to the timing chains, I was thinking of a situation where some aftermarket company created a Gear-Drive system for the SOHC 4.0 engine.. Even though there isnt anything to worry about in regards to them, more of a topic of discussion between SOHC 4.0 owners.. But I really think this would be an awsome aftermarket upgrade..

Can you imagine the awsome sound it would create?

MSP

Spoke with Tom from SuperSix Motorsports about a possible gear drive setup, and he says this issue is no longer a problem in the 2005 Mustangs version of the SOHC 4.0, because timing chain tensioners have been improved.. So this means an end to the discussion about these timing chains..

So feel free to allow your SOHC 4.0 to pump out 400RWHP @ high rpm..

For guys like Scrming, this means increase the dosage to 150SHOT, without worry, and shift it at 6000RPM if this gets you down the track within 12.3 to 12.5Sec while squeezin a 150shot of bullet proof Vodka! LOL!