Skylar

This may not pertain to detailing, but why do so many people try to keep their car from being rained on? I've seen people say that their car has never seen rain. Does this have to do with protecting the paint, or is it more of something to boast about?

CCTking

Some like to keep their vehicles in pristine condition. Rain water can have mineral deposits or standing water can be full of dirt and grime. When this comes into contact with the paint it has the chance to leave behind trace amounts of whatever was in the water and leave small scratches or marring.
Although personally i think rain is fun to watch as it beads and rolls off the surface, i can understand having a garage queen in areas with bad roads or crazy weather. Snow, ice, road salt, and even acid rain are common all over the place and all of these can potentially be very harmful to paint condition.

hwm3

All of that plus it takes longer to get the car back to show ready shape after being driven in the rain. Rain helps dirt get in places it otherwise wouldn't.

Also, I will do a waterless wash/quick detailer wipe down if the car just has light dust from being driven. Once driven in the rain it's time to break out the buckets for a full wash.

CCTking

I also do waterless when i get the chance. The weather down here in south texas is all over the place though so im waiting for a nice clear few days so i can do a new detail job on the car. Shes dirty and needs a day at the spa!

ColSaulTigh

I have a follow-up question about wax:

What's the difference between a $10 "carnauba" wax, a $100 one, and a $1,000 one?

I understand the difference between a "cleaning wax" and a "finishing wax" (at least I THINK I do), but I don't quite understand what makes a $1,000 wax (ok, $850 wax, close enough) worth $1,000.

Thanks!

mikenapoli

I'm way too cynical to answer this one....hopefully Mr. Harris can field this question!

ColSaulTigh

Actually, I'd appreciate your thoughts! My guess is that the ultra-expensive waxes are a way to separate morons from their money. Aside for perhaps a higher percentage of Carnauba concentrate in them, and perhaps the quality of the other ingredients (oils, etc. I'm assuming), they're probably going to be a law of diminishing returns....So a $10 wax is mostly filler (say 30% quality/70% filler), a $100 wax is 80% quality/20% filler, and a premium wax is as good as the best you could possibly do (95% wax/5% filler). This is simply a guess on my part - please enlighten me.

DaGonz

I'll take a stab at it. Two things make the costs so radically different

One has to do with the amount of carnauba actually in the wax. Carnauba comes from the leaves of a tree in the rain forest. when it is processed, it comes in blocks that are rock hard. There are many grades of carnauba. These blocks have to be processed using petroleum distillates and other chemical compounds to make them useable. The difference in costs are the grade of carnauba in the wax and the amount.

The other is marketing.

MarcHarris

To add...

The number one reason is because they can. T1 carnauba (medical grade / the highest quality) is ridiculously cheap. The stuff is used in gummy bears, medicine (pill coating), and many other things.

More carnauba does not equate to the better wax. It'll equate to a harder, less user friendly, harder to apply to your car wax. Add that to what I've already typed about wax being a thin film and degrading quite rapidly from the sun, and you'll realize it doesn't really matter how much wax you have on the car: it matters how often you replenish it.

Because it's so cheap to make a good wax, companies try to market things in tricky ways to make you feel like you're getting something special. Dodo Juice came out against all of these gimmicks 5 or so years ago and exposed the truth about carnauba percentages. They even came out with a product to show you how much of a gimmick it really is. Scroll to the bottom of this link:

http://www.dodojuice.com/dodo-juice-...car-waxes.html

Dodo Juice Flat Earth is a 70% carnauba paper weight to prove how bogus %'s really are.

The only thing that truly makes a wax worth more is your desire to buy it and use it. The same thing can be said about wine, cars, and cigars.

ColSaulTigh

So for all practical purposes, there's no difference between Turtle Wax and Zaino...gotcha.

hwm3

I wouldn't go that far. Zaino and Turtle Wax are different products.

Find a wax you like, that is easy to use and stick with it.

The thing to keep in mind is that having a properly polished, defect free finish will make a much bigger impact than which wax you top it with.

MarcHarris

Not true...
Many over the counter products now a days are sealants, but are labeled as wax, polish, nano-wax, tech-wax, etc. It's all just marketing really. One of the biggest differences that over the counter products compared to the stuff you find online is that OTC products usually have cleaners, abrasives, fillers, or all of them.

Additionally, Zaino makes sealant while Turtle Wax makes all kinds of stuff.


This x 1,000

ColSaulTigh

Perhaps I overgeneralized....

I meant that there's no significant difference between an OTC carnauba wax and an online one that costs 10x as much. If we're comparing apples to apples - caranuba wax made by Meguiars (THIS for example) vs. Chemical Guys (THIS for example) are basically the same.

I understand that the key is to begin with a quality paint prep to begin with (garbage in, garbage out), and I understand the difference between Carnauba (natural plant wax) vs. polymer/synthetic waxes, polishes, glazes, etc. and I also get the fact that a wax is essentially a protective barrier. I just wanted to make sure that there wasn't a direct correlation between price and quality. I equate it this way - you can have cheap, or you can have good, but rarely can you have both. In this case, however, there's no benefit to spending 85x the price of the Meguiars vs. the fancy-schmancy jar from CG (or whomever's favorite boutique wax) you pick.

If this is the case then, why the love for Dodo Juice over say Meguiars? Wouldn't the argument be if there's essentially no major difference, why not go the cheaper route?

MarcHarris

The Meguiar's product linked is a hybird wax+sealant.

Boutique products can be more specialized, hence the market for them.

Part of paying more is for a more specialized product. Whether this is a good reason is up to the individual. Why choose real Cherry or Ebony hardwood floors / furniture when you can just use Oak stained to be more red or black? Do real cherry hardwood floors allow you to walk on them better? They're all just going to have a coat of polyurethane over them anyways, so durability isn't even an issue.

It's a matter of taste, rarity, and quality of living. You have a Ford Mustang, which is a much much much more absurd purchase than $80 carnauba wax. Imagine talking to someone born in 1700, and explaining to them why you chose that car when you could have purchased a car for $1,000 that has just as much room as your Mustang. Do you see the issue here?

Quite frankly, it makes a lot more sense (to me at least) for someone to spend $200 on wax they use all the time than $20 on a "wax" they use once and throw away.

mikenapoli

There are definitely significant differences, and it's not always what you'd imagine them to be. Ease of use, durability, scent, whether or not it stains trim pieces and overall look are just a few of the differences between competing products, regardless of price. One product may excel in one area over another, and it's up to the consumer to prioritize what he expects out of a wax/sealant. A lot of these differences are highly subjective as well, hence the enormous selections available. But to make a blanket statement that a $1000 wax is ALWAYS better than a $100 one.....it's just not true. As Ron and Marc have said, marketing plays a HUGE part in it.

ColSaulTigh

To me, it's not as much about the "cost" of the protectant as it is the "value". Let me try to break my question down in a more granular level:

1) As I've been reading, I've discovered that once you get your paint perfect(ish), you should protect it. The protection layer adds (relatively) nothing to the appearance - the sole purpose is to keep that perfection clean and safe from damage caused by mineral deposits, micro-abrasions, bird droppings (as best you can, anyway), etc. This protective layer is sacrificial. As Marc explained in his excellent thread the other night, just as humans shed dead skin and regenerate new skin, so should this protective layer be shed and 'regenerated' to protect anew.

2) There are essentially three different types of protection:
A) "Natural" Carnauba/Beeswax/Montan/etc. wax mixed with oils. These need to be re-applied on a more frequent basis.
B) "Synthetic" wax/sealant made with polymers (that may or may not also include Carnauba, et. al. These last longer than the "natural" waxes, and offer additional benefits (cleaners, fillers, etc.)
C) Paint Protection such as C Quartz/OptiCoat 2.0, which are "nano coatings" that act like a second clear coat layer (sort-of). These last the longest, however, are harder to remove when re-application is required or damage repair is needed.

Choosing which of these three types of protection seems to be personal preference. There is no logical choice for picking one over the other - it's a question of what the individual end-user sees as the better option given their specific circumstance.

3) Prices in each of these categories can vary widely. Factors that affect price include (but are not limited to) ease of use, longevity, formulation, interaction with plastics, etc. There is no real way of determining quality, as it's subjective. Again, an individual who values protection over ease of use will most likely prefer a different product that someone who wants a wipe-on/wipe-off easy installation, but may have to do this more frequently as it may not last as long. Having said all this, there is no correlation between price and quality (in most cases). If you compare apples-to-apples, it boils down to the individuals needs and which of the thousands of products meet those needs.

So, unless I've missed something, I think I've got it. If my primary concern is Protection value (Maximum protection), and I don't care how often I have to re-apply the product (being single has it's advantages, including extra free time), and removing price from the equation (as it seems to be a non-factor), it appears that a Synthetic of some form is what I should be looking at, correct?

Thanks for putting up with what must appear to be inane questions. I tend to analyze a topic to death, but I'd rather study now than pay the price of poor education later. I learned that the hard way.

Thanks!

MarcHarris

I'd say that post is pretty good.

You'll also now understand how the rise in popularity of sealants has come about.

And remember, if you always got what you paid for, Lambos and Ferraris wouldn't be POS cars

joey8

over the weekend i washed my car with duragloss 902 wash concentrate. Clayed it with meguiars clay and quik detailer as lube. Polished with menzerna sf4000 (first time trying it and was pleasantly surprised with the sleekness and how it removed swirls, very easy on and off no complaints) with a porter cable 7424xp and a white lake country light cutting pad. Topped it with menzerna powerlock sealant (also first time using this sealant. It went on very thin and came off just as easy. No dusting and the sleekness was awesome as well as the glossyness and shine). I just put on another layer of the sealant and just about to take it off. Going to top with zymol carbon wax tomorrow and pictures to follow.

mikenapoli

In for pics. Sounds like a solid gameplan so far!

FromZto5

Both and more. For me, it's a sickness... it's a disease. All my toy cars (except daily drivers) never see rain. Ever. I guess you could say I do it "just because"... or for the principle of it.

For me, a LARGE reason is also about not allowing moisture to interact with brake dust, which results in those rust specks that you see on lower fenders right behind the front wheels, and doors, and also in the back trunk area. This means, that for the most part, my 2x a year claying is very easy, with hardly any embedded contaminants of dirt/debris. This then results in less chances of marring from claying, resulting in less need to lightly correct/polish paint 1x a year.

So you see, everything happens for a reason

Another reason is... without rain, or the car ever being driven in rain, the underside of the car still looks factory, with no worries about rust, dirt, grime, etc.... ever being present.

And the last reason, I just HATE dirty cars. I don't want my ride to ever be dirty or look dirty. I DO have a reputation to uphold you know haha

Sounds like a lot of fun. In for pics as well.