JessicaRabbitt

Ed, are you SERIOUS??? If I got paid at all it would be a raise, we do this because of our love of Mustangs, and this site. Ill take that transformer! Thank you, we just do what we can. Makes it easier when you all arent PMSing the same week.

Hey, Ben... I know there are times when you all can work stuff out. I just have gotten fairly adept at seeing the future of certian threads. When its going south with no hopes of resurrection, it gets closed. I saw hope in this one, glad to see you boys and girls playing nicely! LOL

I got into it with Tony, thinking my law school backround, and debating trophies on my shelf were going to do me some good. Yeh, I thought wrong! LOL There are few that can verbally battle like Tony. Glad to see him back in the frey.

See, now *I* am off topic! LOL :: Bad Jessica:: (I need smilie like that)

Purple Hayz

Many have been at odds with the truth. Just ask Galileo. Fortunately, our Bill of Rights allows you to hold any position you like, even a ridiculous one Ha Ha just playin with ya, Jess (good to see you again too, btw).

You ARE correct on the speed/health hazard relationship. Given the limited biological tolerances of the human body, we are pretty much screwed in any unrestrained collision above 30 mph, and it's certainly the case that the health risk increases with greater speeds. That said, the issue on the table here is not about automobile speed as a health risk, but about regulated speed limits as a social good/safety benefit. Here the evidence tends to lean the other way (see the federal D.O.T. report and the Montana summary from my previous posts).

It's also important to clarify where speed limits are in fact appropriate: ANY place where pedestrian safety is an issue, for example. Potentially hazardous curves, for another. Aside from that, posted speed limits exist for two reasons: To pay cops' salaries, and to kill citizens . I know it sounds ridiculous, but the evidence is overwhelming on both of these points (again, see my previous posts). Consider:

-Speeding tickets generate 13 billion dollars in annual revenue when fees and traffic schools are included
-In some small towns, entire departments are sustained by ticket revenue
-Nearly every credible study of speed regulation has found that reducing speed limits increases collisions, increasing (or even eliminating) speed limits reduces collisions. Given the obvious correlation between collisions and traffic fatalities, the link between speed limits and highway deaths is a given. B)

Again the key determinant is traffic flow. Just ask our German friends B) Highway speed limits are at best irrelevant and in all likelihood, harmful. Traffic engineers have argued this point for 50 years. The scientific community has reached the same (nearly unanimous) conclusion.

idobson

Oh I beg to differ, in my GT Probe a while back I was on cruise control on the freeway doing 101Kph and I was pulled over and given a ticket by a french canadian ***** from chilliwack RCMP
I said but I was only doing 101, he confirmed and agreed with me but said that I was doing 101 which is more than 100 so you are getting a ticket.

I went to court on this one, and it didn't seem to matter to the ***** judge either.

I know they say they are supposed to give you like 5% or so, but he didn't and I still got a fine and 3 points on my license because I was the one in the line of 10 cars all doing the same speed that was driving the red sports car.
RCMP Highway cops stink hiney
I'm not bitter about it anymore though, it was like 10 years ago..

GottaHaveIt

Yes I'm serious pm me the where but I'll ship it COD ups if thats ok I do appreciate the Policing that you do ! thats good enough for me!

poldrv

So how about those Oilers?

OBleedingMe

No chest thumping here, my friend. Just a proud Capitalist. Seems like ya might be a little mad that Capitalism has worked out so well. I see no one here has dared to rebut the fact that Europe can only rival America's output by collectively pooling the efforts of their entire continent. 20 skinny punks can beat up that green beret soldier I mentioned in my previous post. It takes the power of dozens of Socialist countries to equal the power of one Capitalist country. That is a hard, bleak fact. You can scoff and call it "chest thumping." I call your scoffs "living in denial."

As far as China, the only reason they are growing stronger is because they are becoming MORE CAPITALISTIC. They have allowed independent businesses to grow, business entrapenuers more opportunities, etc. I hope they continue down this track, because their official philosophy of Communism does not work. It killed/maimed/deformed tens of millions in the former USSR (starvation, cannibalism, secret police, radiation leakage, etc)... and 20 years later they STILL don't have 1/10th of the freedoms that the rest of the civilized world enjoys.

Purple Haze - GREAT ARTICLE about the Montana study... improving lane courtesy would be something I would LOVE to experience. I think a lack of lane courtesy accounts for many cases of highway road rage, and road rage can create some NASTY accidents/after accident violence. Saw one myself back in October.

smitty

People are going to drive the speed they are comfortable driving...Period! This came home to me when I took a driving trip with my father after I had been driving for many years. He absolutely refused to drive faster than 65mph (the posted limit at the time in Ohio). This was not because he had a problem with speeding (he would do 40 in a 35), but because he was uncomfortable going faster. He also stayed to the right, so he had no problems with traffic that wanted to go faster (just about everyone else). I was uncomfortable riding with him in charge of the car because I typically drive faster than that. I find myself not paying attention to what I'm doing if I just get in line and follow the leader. I also happen to have a perfect driving record in 26 years of driving. When I say that, what I mean is that I have no accidents...I have plenty of tickets. Personally, I'll take accident free driving and the occasional "surcharge."

It's hard to argue with "common sense." For example, at first blush, you would think that having an airbag deploy faster and with more force would save more people's lives, but it turns out the opposite is true. Automobile manufacturers told government regulators this when airbags were mandated, but they didn't listen until we killed a few too many folks with those more powerful airbags. Anytime you start killing infants, you really get people's attention fast and they become more willing to listen to the scientific evidence...especially if it means they'll lose their job if they keep arguing the "common sense" line.

Unfortunately, when it comes to speed limits, we are going to have to kill alot more infants by going too slow before anything will change. There are too many vested interests who are profitting by keeping speed limits artificially low. Purple hayz mentions law enforcement, but insurance companies can charge you more for insurance with a couple speeding tickets. Then, magnanimously, they are willing to send a dangerous driver like you back out there to cause more carnage. After all, if you weren't out there speeding, how would law enforcement get their cut? And then there are the elected officials with the"speed kills" common sense retoric. That way the insurance company can kick back some money to their campaign...all "legally" of course. I'm certain I've left other groups out...for that, I apologize to those groups.

Anyway, exc911ence, my common sense tells me that the ticket you received falls into the "revenue generation" catagory. It certainly doesn't sound as if you were endangering human life going 75mph on an empty highway, but I could be wrong. I wasn't there and that Mountie was, and afterall, he's the expert on stuff like that. You should probably accept his judgement, pay the ticket, and stop whining. Oh, and stop trying to think for yourself, ok? It really makes all us people who just want to follow the rules without thinking or protesting very uncomfortable. And even if it isn't making us uncomfortable, it's wasting our time. Instead of reading your time wasting post, we could be reading some other time wasting post. Oh, just nevermind. If I had any common sense, I wouldn't have even responded to this post.

smitty

No chest thumping here, my friend. Just a proud Capitalist. Seems like ya might be a little mad that Capitalism has worked out so well. I see no one here has dared to rebut the fact that Europe can only rival America's output by collectively pooling the efforts of their entire continent. 20 skinny punks can beat up that green beret soldier I mentioned in my previous post. It takes the power of dozens of Socialist countries to equal the power of one Capitalist country. That is a hard, bleak fact. You can scoff and call it "chest thumping." I call your scoffs "living in denial."

As far as China, the only reason they are growing stronger is because they are becoming MORE CAPITALISTIC. They have allowed independent businesses to grow, business entrapenuers more opportunities, etc. I hope they continue down this track, because their official philosophy of Communism does not work. It killed/maimed/deformed tens of millions in the former USSR (starvation, cannibalism, secret police, radiation leakage, etc)... and 20 years later they STILL don't have 1/10th of the freedoms that the rest of the civilized world enjoys.

Purple Haze - GREAT ARTICLE about the Montana study... improving lane courtesy would be something I would LOVE to experience. I think a lack of lane courtesy accounts for many cases of highway road rage, and road rage can create some NASTY accidents/after accident violence. Saw one myself back in October.
[/b][/quote]

To this particular point of view, I would respond that capitalism is a good basic way of life, but that there are many things in life alot more important than profit...a viewpoint lost on many in this country. And by the way, my dad can beat up your dad.

Montrose

I don't remember mentioning the terms 'capitalism', 'socialism' or 'communism' in my post. I was simply commenting on the fact that jingoism is fine, but the reality is, China is overtaking all other countries (or unions of countries) in terms of economics, and will soon be the dominant world power.

Have a nice day.

Barricade

Ok...lets talk about plumbers now.
Who got ripped off from a clog??

holderca1

Hmm, So I guess I will start driving my car 70 mph everywhere I go, I am still in control of it. Yeah, 70 mph through a school zone sounds good, since I am still in control of the car. Think before you post. I don't think you meant what you just posted.

holderca1

The point he is making is appallingly simple. How and/or why you are failing to grasp it is beyond me. Cause precedes effect; it does not VALIDATE effect. This is a basic paradigm of causal inference. If no stimuli is provided, no response occurs. Period. Applying this logic to the aforementioned scenario, the stimuli (i.e. some form of infraction, like speeding) must be established PRIOR to the response (running his plates). If no such cause has been established, then no effect can follow.

Now pay attention. You cannot use evidence of the cause discovered AFTER the fact as an a priori justification for executing a response in the first place. :nono: Doing so is a classic example of circular reasoning. If the point is still lost on you, consider the following vignette:

Cop: Tell us why you shot your wife, Bob.

Bob: She was cheating on me.

Cop: And how did you know that, Bob.

Bob: She admitted it to me…….right after I shot her!
[/b][/quote]
Uhh, the part I don't understand is that someone can steal a car, but a law enforement won't do anything until the person commits a traffic violation? I don't think you are thinking about the scenario. Oh, and a leo posted earlier that he doesn't need a reason to run tags.

holderca1

Your point would be far more relevant if it were true (and believe me, I wish it were!). I am unaware of any state other than Vermont that does not permit cops to run plates for any reason whatsoever, even no reason at all.
[/b][/quote]
Okay, now I am confused, now you are arguing in favor of me?

poldrv

So what about those oilers, do you think there might be a hockey season next year?

Montrose

Go Leafs!

holderca1

They left Houston years ago.

Barricade

Cthulhu

Thats a painful oversimplification of what the argument was over. We weren't arguing that the speed limit should be 70 MPH everywhere, holder - its that you can often go significantly (10MPH+ over) faster than the posted speed limit, while still being well in control of the car, and drive very safely.