ColSaulTigh

I'm referring to the dealer logo they stick on the back. Since the car's being transferred in, I don't know what/if the original dealer put anything on there, but at least I know my dealer (AutoNation) won't stick their HUGE badge on the back.

I know the de-badging trick with the dental floss (or fishing line). I prefer to have them not put it on in the first place if I can avoid it. Like I said, unless they pay me to advertise their dealership on my car, it comes off.

As for the screen name - on all the forums I'm on, you're the first to recognize it! That was an excellent show, sad to see it end, but glad it didn't jump the shark on it's way out.

So Say We All.

mikenapoli

BFWD is very runny compared to most other sealants. Nothing to be worried about, it still works just fine and is easier to spread thin. Dawn can be used to strip LSPs in some cases, but with fresh sealants and some waxes it may take several back-to-back Dawn washes to strip the surface. I usually mix APC in my foam cannon along with car wash soap and let that sit on the surface for a while, then wash with Dawn or something strong like Chemical Guys Citrus Wash. Obviously, it helps if you can do this in a garage or early in the morning if you're going to let even diluted APC sit on the surface. Follow that with an IPA wipedown, and you should have a bare surface but always check by flowing water off the car to see how it reacts. If it beads or sheets off....lather, rinse, repeat.

mikenapoli

OptiCoat Pro and OptiCoat 2.0 (the consumer version) are classified as coatings instead of waxes or sealants. It's actually a liquid coating that gets wiped onto bare paint and once cured, it becomes a "semi-permanent" protection for the vehicles paint, glass and plastic trim. The reason they call it semi-permanent is because it won't wear away or degrade over time like waxes and sealants will, but can be abraded off by polishing if you choose to remove it.

Besides it's crazy longevity, the coolest thing about OptiCoat is how well it releases dirt and road film from the surface and how well it protects against etching from bugs, bird bombs, etc. It does add a SLIGHT degree of scratch resistance to the paint, but a lot of detailers overemphasize that point to where some car owners think it's a bulletproof shield over their cars.
It's not a free license to let good maintenance habits go. You still want to get bird bombs, bug remains and hard water spots off your paint ASAP, but the coating gives you a little buffer (haha) compared to waxes and sealants. And since you only need to apply it once, it will save a lot of time constantly waxing or sealing your car. Which for some of us, isn't necessarily a benefit. In fact, I generally don't recommend it to my clients with garage queens or show cars because while it doesn't look bad, it doesn't really add anything to the look of the car.

DarrenGT

My DIB blue is in for vinyl striping this week. She hasn't been waxed yet. after the stripes it has to wait a week before she can even really be washed i am told. what's the best 'next' step towards protecting the paint and stripes?
recommended products?

ColSaulTigh

Thank you for this explanation - it's very helpful. I do have a couple of follow-up questions:

1) Is this a "less-is-more" type product? Meaning, is one coat enough, or if I were just a mad-crazy fool, would 5 coats be better?

2) You mention that it "doesn't really add anything to the look of the car". Would you be able to add a polish on top of this product to "enhance" appearance, or is this a choice of "protection vs. appearance". In other words, are there other products that offer say 80% of the protection value AND better appearance enhancement?

Thanks again!

Ghekk

Hey everyone. Doing my first own wash and clay (first time with clay, I'm nervous) today. I guess the dealer they shipped it from washed it at their facility because it has a some minor scratchs. Not really swirls, more straight lines and you have to look hard and at the right angle to see them. Will something like a Mequires Ultimate Polish take those out? I figured I'd do the whole car to be safe.

Also, this is probably a dumb question but what stripe type comes on California Specials; Glossy or Matte?

03DJ

Make sure you keep the car vehicle moist when doing clay. As for scratches try Meg's Ultimate Compound, then apply Meg's Ultimate Polish. Be sure to wax it afterwards. Do One section at a time when cleaning the vehicle.

As for the stripe...I have no idea. I'm pretty sure it would be glossy. The stripe on my car is gloss.

MarcHarris

I have no idea who you are, weird internet car enthusiast, but you sure as hell ask a lot of very good questions that show you've really done some research and have been carefully thinking about things.

Hope Mike doesn't mind me chiming in to help out.

Yes this is a less is more product. Opti-coat isn't like a normal wax or sealant in application and how it reacts to detailing. It only goes on as a thin film of protection, but it's a much better film (in durability) than a wax or sealant. Some people like to point out that it noticeable slightly darkens paint, and I think I'd agree. At the same time, just as you can't apply 5 layers of a wax and think you're getting 5x the protection (they act as one homogeneous layer of protection, let alone the solvent carrier in the wax are likely to weaken / remove some of the previous layer after a couple of layers go on), you can't apply 2-3 layers of Opti-coat and think you're getting 2-3 times the protection or durability.

Take into consideration, your clear-coat is the ultimate coating. It comes already installed, resists dirt, bird-bombs, UV rays / fading, and is truly permanent. When clear-coat started to be used on cars in the 80's, it was marketed and promised you'd never have to wax your car anymore. That's technically correct too. The majority of people don't wax their cars enough or at all, and their paint isn't falling off in 3-4 years, nor are their red cars turning pink.

The real reason to keep your car waxed is so that it stays cleaner longer, and when you do wash it, it washes easier without scrubbing. This means you're clear-coat can stay defect free much easier rather than being hazy with swirls that make the finish more translucent.

The problem with Opti-coat being so hardcore, is that it truly is like another thin layer of clear-coat. It can become impregnated with debris that need to be removed with clay, and it can become lightly damaged and need light polishing. IME, Opti-coat isn't much fun to polish (acts very gummy), and because it's so thin, you run the risk of going through it which means you need to remove it completely from the panel in question and reapply.


I hope this helps to answer some questions.

ColSaulTigh

Marc,

Thanks for the compliment! I try to do my homework before asking questions - I've found over the years that Google is your friend, and the Junkman has taught me much over the past year! In fact, I've asked him to come join our discussions - he's started a 'fix your swirls' thread already

So to clarify, Opti-coat (and products of it's ilk - Nano-coat, CQuartz, etc.) is essentially an artificial clear coat, correct? It acts as a "sacrificial layer", but it's more of a semi-permanent solution. Should it need correction, it will require more work to do so, but it's "protection quality" is higher than a sealant/wax solution, right?

The thought process being - if I start with a good foundation (clean, swirl/scratch/defect-free paint), it would be adding an additional protection layer without really adding much else ("shine", "brightness", "depth", "insert-descriptive adjective here"). The protection will last longer, but not give me anything else in the way of "visual enhancements". A sealant/wax combo can be 'tweaked' to provide appearance enhancements, but at the cost of protection quality/durability/longevity, right?

My specific goal is protection - bugs are a problem here (anyone who's experienced "Love Bug" season knows what I'm talking about...), and while I will be garage storing the car, it will be my DD, so I need to take things like weather (Florida sun, rain) and flying rats (birds) into consideration, too. Based on this, it sounds like the Opti-coat-type products would be the better choice, right? Am I missing a factor I haven't considered here?

While we're on the subject - do y'all recommend any one brand over another for any particular reason? The interwebs is rampant with claims of "Super-Ultra-Mega Protection 5000" formulas that will do everything from restore your 50-year old faded paint to cure cancer...

Thanks again for your feedback and help!

MarcHarris

Long response coming:

Couple of comments to clarify from the start.
You can consider anything to be an artificial clear-coat as far as protection products, so keep in mind they all are super thin films, but Opti-Coat doesn't break down and go away like the others. That being said...
The overwhelming majority of how your car looks comes from the car, not things you can add. Think of it like a beautiful woman: the little make-up you add might enhance, but when you have a perfect base, ANYTHING will look good on it. Opti-Coat can have an affect on how the finish looks, but it is as minor as any other product's "look." 99% of how your car looks comes from the actual condition of the vehicle. Your Mustang likely has 40-60 microns of clear-coat while any coating, wax, or sealant will be less than 1 micron thick. They all go on so thick, that neither of my paint thickness gauges can measure a difference.
Wax and sealants don't change the look of paint at the expense of durability, rather their look and durability are functions of what they are. To better understand this, here's a short crash-course:

Wax get's its name from actual waxes that are in it. Things like beeswax, montan wax, and the world's hardest natural wax: carnauba wax. Why wax was first used on cars goes back to Meguiar's original purpose: they made wax to be used on wooden furniture. Back in the day, urethane / polyurethane didn't exist and wood was bare / raw. It could rot and deteriorate, and the easiest and cheapest way to keep it around was to coat it with a wax which protected it from water as well as bugs. At the turn of the 20th century, the automobile became popular. What body panel material did some of these early cars use? Wood. Meguiar's was selling wax that was popular to protect your automobile. Even as things moved to metal and single-stage urethane paint which lasted MUCH longer than wood, they'd still wear out let alone oxidize.
They didn't use wax to change the look, rather to protect what the wax was being applied to. Any change in look is minor and a side-result. If you want to out-sell the other's guys product that's just as durable (or fragile) as your wax, one way is to market your wax as having a better or more high-end look. The same can be said about women's make-up...

So you see, wax doesn't lack modern day durability because it looks better, rather it lacks durability compared to man-made/man-engineered polymer based sealants or resin coatings because it's just wax. If carnauba and other waxes were super durable, carnauba trees wouldn't continuously produce it, and beehives would last forever.

MarcHarris

Part 2!

Protection is important, especially for your environment. Rather than looking at man-made clear-coat or cool products like Opti-Coat, I like to look to nature to see the shortfalls of our capabilities.
Some of the most durable things in nature are durable not because they last forever, but rather they're designed to be replaced. This is the shortfall of modern paint jobs.

Look at the amazing natural coating / protection we have: human skin. It gets damaged, gets loaded with contaminates, get's scratched. It then sheds off and is discarded in place of brand new skin! We don't have to clay or polish our skin, yet we're not full of debris or swirls because we ALWAYS have a fresh coating on.
That's what you're missing. The same down-fall of clear-coat is the same down-fall of Opti-coat. This is in part of why I feel like the only thing better than Opti-coat is a steady care regiment that includes constant waxing/sealing.

Wax doesn't last long? That's fine; let it come off along with some otherwise stuck on debris with it.


Brands, as you've likely found, mean much less than how you use products, and how often you use products. If you look at some of my personal history as well as articles I've written ( http://www.detailedimage.com/Ask-a-P...r/marc-harris/ ) you'll see I do have some biased towards the UK company Dodo Juice. Mainly I appreciate their honesty and their goal of putting out the best product they can come up with for it's intended purpose. Find things you like, and use them often. Don't get caught up in the hype of the latest greatest product that makes your car look awesome while curing cancer.

ColSaulTigh

Thanks for such a well-crafted, educational response! Explained this way, it makes perfect sense to me now. I was getting so hung up on the "protection" portion that I didn't think about the long-term effects of leaving a product like Opti-Coat on vs. simply "refreshing" a sealant/wax job. Also, the 1-micron depth layer description was an eye opener! My brain had me trained to think that since wax is thick-ish, then the layer left behind when applied must also be thick. I never really considered it before.

I have also seen the Dodo juice products in my research, and think I will give them a try once I've used up my CG stuff (BlackLight/v7), unless you think I'd be better served to just abandon them altogether (since I don't have the car yet, neither have been opened...).

Again, thanks for the education - well worth the read, all!

Skylar

I'm not sure if anyone's asked this question yet, but does vinegar really help get water spots off windows?

Paris MkVI

I am realizing that I am only vicariously detailing my car by following this thread.

The reality is my hood looks like alligators sleep on it. I also love a black Mustang, but it is a constant fight, or a losing battle.

MarcHarris

Water spots occur because there are dissolved minerals in your water, and when water landed on your windows and dried, the water dried fast enough that it left the minerals behind.
Vinegar is an acid that can help to dissolve the minerals into the liquid so that they can be effectively removed.

So yes, it CAN work, or at least help. It doesn't always work 100%, but is cheap and probably worth trying. Now that you better understand how and why it works, you can imagine that lightly soaking a towel / paper towel and leaving it against the surface to let the vinegar do it's thing could help even more.

Don't give up. Black is a tough color, but a beautiful color. Not other color does more to show you what you did well or poorly than black. For that reason, it's the easiest color to learn on. Keep fighting the good fight!

DaGonz

Black is the easiest color to learn on, it can also be considered the "final exam" for detailing.

DarrenGT

if black is the best color to learn on then i'm going to learn how to clay bar and wax on my black fx4 before going onto my 5.0. It's a supercrew so that means LOTS of practice lol.

DaGonz

That is a lot of real estate to cover!

CCTking

Detailing cars is one thing, full size trucks and suv's are a whole 'nother animal altogether. Imagine doin a two (or three even) bucket wash method, clay, polish, then wax/seal.
Ive done it but lawd is it tedious!

Marc (and other resident "experts") you've taught me alot on detailing just by reading your posts throughout the forum. I remember when i had my first car (and first mustang) and i was a lil intimidated by the black paint because i knew it was gonna be a real challenge keeping it lookin new. But as i read along and gained a deeper understanding of how detailing really works, it made my life so much easier.

Yea i ended up spending 2-3 hours washing and detailing my car, but only once a month here in the south texas climate. The compliments never fell short either and that always kept me goin. Now with my white paint it all seems even easier because imperfections are much harder to spot. I keep to the same process though and white is one of the few colors that run up near black for how good it looks properly taken care for.

In fact my interest in detailing even got me to start my own mobile detailing run here in my city. Not much work being done there since my job kills alot of time but its nice to have as a sode option. I pass on what ive learned to my friends and because of that its easy to pick us apart from the crowd. A good wash can make any car look good but even a simple detail with polish and wax just adds that extra bit of clean.

I would like to personally thank you (and all others, FromZto5, Junkman, others) for answering our many questions and enlightening us wth your passion for automobile care. Heres to many more years of shiny cars and Mustang domination!

MarcHarris

And that's really what it's all about.

That's how I started as well: not in it to make money, or have anyone asking me questions, or anything else. It was all about trying to get my baby looking as good as possible. It's because we're car enthusiasts.

Now, I just look at all of this as giving back in the same way I read and learned a lot from others. I used to ask a lot of questions, or at least research a lot of questions others have asked, and over time and with experience I got to the point of being pretty knowledgeable about certain things. There is still a lot to learn, and just like all of you; I'm constantly trying to improve me knowledge and skills.

So I thank you all for posting great questions, your personal results and opinions, and adding to The Mustang Source's detailing knowledge base in order to help fellow enthusiasts. Keep up the great work