Ford to discontinue V8
1/15/15, 10:43 AM
#181
Super Boss Lawman Member
This was already posted, and in reality, neither of those sites have a good track record of having true information. I think we should just sit back and see what happens because no one really knows what will happen, outside Ford execs, engineers and suppliers.
On a lighter note, this made me chuckle!
On a lighter note, this made me chuckle!
1/15/15, 11:18 AM
#184
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1/15/15, 11:55 AM
#185
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unless...
*tinfoil hat on*
GM and Chrysler took the bailout money and sold out to the government, Ford did not. There wouldn't be anything different in the future because of that, would there?
*tinfoil hat off*
It is worth noting that each company will solve their issues their own way.
Mercedes Benz bought SmartCar for the sole purple of complying with CAFE.
GM has the Volt, and future versions of it might be their solution to balance out their V8 engines.
Chrysler has Fiat (or rather the other way around), which is perhaps why the 500 was brought here, to balance CAFE.
Ford does have electrics, but do they sell? I don't really see them marketed much, I do see the Volt marketed.
1/15/15, 12:00 PM
#186
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I am reminded of the Crown Vic. It was the default police cruiser in the US and Canada. Ford could have gone right on selling Crown Vics just as they were for years to come because police departments would by them without question and in large numbers. What then killed the Crown Vic? The government. It was dropped because it didn't meet new government regulations and Ford deemed it cost prohibitive to update the chassis. The same could easily happen to the 5.0. Never underestimate the governments ability to ruin a good thing.
Doesn't anyone notice that in one generation the history of the full size car and the station wagon ended, only to be replaced by SUVs and minivans?
One of the reasons that Chrysler developed the minivan was because of CAFE and the gas guzzler tax. The minivan is certified as a light truck, not a car, and thus exempt from the gas guzzler tax.
The Chevy Blazer came out in the mid 80s, as did the minivan. The Suburban really took off in the late 80s as well, and Jeep had the Grand Wagoneer, all exempt from the new taxes.
When I was growing up, we always owned a big full size station wagon, but those are all gone now. Now I own the GMC version of a Suburban, which actually gets much worse MPG than a modern station wagon would get, but the law is the law.
1/15/15, 12:17 PM
#187
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I remember in the 90s, a friend of mine recently bought a new car, minus anti-lock brakes... My new one had them...
This of course started a conversation about them... His feeling was that he wanted control over the braking, he could pulse them and pump them as he saw fit. He was from the north, so he was used to driving on snow and ice without them.
My reply of course was that the computer could pump them much faster than he could, react nearly perfectly every time, and it also could do something that was impossible for him to do, as he had only one brake pedel. It could apply DIFFERENT brake pressure to each wheel, depending on what had traction.
As I recall, we never settled that debate, we probably just had another beer.
Fast forward to today, you cannot buy a car in the US or EU without them. In fact, even Electronic Stability Control has become legally required in both countries.
1/15/15, 12:30 PM
#188
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That being said, I'd prefer a 3.5L V8 over a 3.5L V6, just for the sound and feel.
I imagine that the V8 would cost more to making, having more parts to machine, move valves and other parts to put together. I'd pay something extra for it however.
1/15/15, 12:31 PM
#189
Legacy TMS Member
Yes, and big displacement engines might be going away... That being said, I'd prefer a 3.5L V8 over a 3.5L V6, just for the sound and feel. I imagine that the V8 would cost more to making, having more parts to machine, move valves and other parts to put together. I'd pay something extra for it however.
I imagine that the V8 would cost more to making, having more parts to machine, move valves and other parts to put together. I'd pay something extra for it however. 
1/15/15, 12:52 PM
#190
SUPERCHARGED RED ROCKET ------------------Master-Moderator
1/15/15, 12:55 PM
#191
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^ He was from the north, so he was used to driving on snow and ice without them.
My reply of course was that the computer could pump them much faster than he could, react nearly perfectly every time, and it also could do something that was impossible for him to do, as he had only one brake pedel. It could apply DIFFERENT brake pressure to each wheel, depending on what had traction.
As I recall, we never settled that debate, we probably just had another beer.
.
My reply of course was that the computer could pump them much faster than he could, react nearly perfectly every time, and it also could do something that was impossible for him to do, as he had only one brake pedel. It could apply DIFFERENT brake pressure to each wheel, depending on what had traction.
As I recall, we never settled that debate, we probably just had another beer.
.
Manually pumping works perfectly fine for slowing the vehicle down - even down a snowy/icy pass - to ease the vehicle down. The anti-lock won't even come on unless you lock them up - then you hear them chattering. But if you're already to that point, then the anti-lock MAY help... but probably not because you already waited too long to slow down. Once you lose traction you don't always regain it before you hit the ditch - even with the pulsing of anti-lock brakes. Dry pavement of course is a different circumstance.
I have hundreds of thousands of miles on cars and commercial trucks over 5k passes on snow and ice in every direction and never wrecked though I did not have anti-lock brakes. I still pump my brakes coming down the pass and 2 of 3 of my vehicles have anti-lock, but I'm not foolish enough to lock them up on purpose. But its nice having it for a one last shot to let the computer do its thing just in case. But I grew up where RWD on snow and ice was a right of passage - doing donuts in parking lots learning to control the slide. VS today's crew that whines about SRA because they grew up on Mom's FWD and are clueless.
Carry on.
Last edited by cdynaco; 1/15/15 at 12:56 PM.
1/15/15, 01:02 PM
#192
GT Member
This is true, but what is also true is there comes a point of diminishing returns.
For example, I work in the power generation industry. Back in the 70's at the time when the clean air act was passed.. there was a lot of smog and pollutants being placed in the air, the government essentially said clean it up or else....
To put it simply you could say it was like your parents saying, "You see that dirty floor over there? Take a broom and sweep half the dirt off it."
So you take the cheap broom you have in the closet and sweep the floor. It was cheap to do and everyone was the better for it.
Then you parents came back and said, "I want you to sweep up the other half too."
So you take said broom and comply. Still a cheap operation to perform.
Then they say "I want you to get the dirt from beneath the base boards"
This time you can't do it with a broom. you have to buy a vacuum cleaner To get it. Now it’s no longer as cheap to clean, and you are picking up less dirt.
Then they say "We want you to also pick up all the dirt you can’t see that the broom and the vacuum cleaner didn’t pick up"
Now there is no tools around to get it that clean, so you have to spend a lot of money on R&D to create new tools that allow you to detect then remove the dirt that you cannot see. The is extremely expensive and only removes a very small amount of dirt....
Then they come back again and say "Now we want you to remove the dirt that is in the floor itself without disturbing the floor."
Now you are spending unheard of amounts of money to remove almost undetectable amounts of dirt.
This is essentially what is going on. Power companies are spending billions of dollars researching and building scrubbers, baghouses etc to remove trace amounts of pollutants from the air. Its not make the air that much cleaner but it is costing you as a customer a lot more on you power bill.
You can apply this same concept to the car industry as well.
There comes a point (if it hasnt already) when car companies will no longer be able to cheaply comply with CAFE standards. You will end up paying more for your car and not see an significant increase in MPG.
1/15/15, 01:41 PM
#193
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Now there is no tools around to get it that clean, so you have to spend a lot of money on R&D to create new tools that allow you to detect then remove the dirt that you cannot see. The is extremely expensive and only removes a very small amount of dirt....
Then they come back again and say "Now we want you to remove the dirt that is in the floor itself without disturbing the floor."
Now you are spending unheard of amounts of money to remove almost undetectable amounts of dirt.
This is essentially what is going on. Power companies are spending billions of dollars researching and building scrubbers, baghouses etc to remove trace amounts of pollutants from the air. Its not make the air that much cleaner but it is costing you as a customer a lot more on you power bill.
Then they come back again and say "Now we want you to remove the dirt that is in the floor itself without disturbing the floor."
Now you are spending unheard of amounts of money to remove almost undetectable amounts of dirt.
This is essentially what is going on. Power companies are spending billions of dollars researching and building scrubbers, baghouses etc to remove trace amounts of pollutants from the air. Its not make the air that much cleaner but it is costing you as a customer a lot more on you power bill.
"Please get all the spilled Anthrax off the kitchen floor."
If you actually somehow spilled Anthrax on the kitchen floor, would a broom and/or vacuum be enough? Or would you spend any amount of money required to make sure it was completely and 100% gone?
I don't want to get into a debate of the harmfulness of what comes out of power plants, rather I'm suggesting another example of why the government might be making those rules tighter and tighter.
Agree or disagree, if the consensus is that the stuff coming out is unacceptable, then it is unacceptable and must be stopped, no matter the cost.
1/15/15, 01:50 PM
#194
SUPERCHARGED RED ROCKET ------------------Master-Moderator
If I just read and interpreted your post accurately ? This is as ridiculous as it gets yet and here's why.. First of all, just one or even 2 models aren't going to make such a huge impact and second, electric cars are still in the infancy stage which can only travel up to 100 miles on a single charge.. Third, the govt CAFE regulations also apply to GM and Chrysler and not just Ford and finally as I've mentioned this time and time again.. If GM and Mopar are somehow able to continue offering V8 engines in their high performance Camaros and Challengers respectively ? Then just imagine how many of the Mustang faithful will jump ship over to the dark side..
Do you really think Ford is willing to take such a risk by losing so many of their die hard and long time customers over to the competition ?
I think not, as Ford is far from being that stupid, as such a gamble would be committing political suicide by providing the competition with such a huge advantage in just sales alone !
Last edited by m05fastbackGT; 1/15/15 at 01:51 PM.
1/15/15, 01:58 PM
#195
I chose the V6 because it's a better daily driver for me. The GT is a great car. I don't feel the need to insult people over their choice of Mustang. It's childish.
By the way I love a good steak. Nothing like it.
Last edited by 3point7; 1/15/15 at 02:00 PM.
1/15/15, 02:00 PM
#196
Legacy TMS Member
Some people feel like their car grants them some sort of license to insult other people. Usually the people with some kind of inferiority complex. I chose the V6 because it's a better daily driver for me. The GT is a great car. I don't feel the need to insult people over their choice of Mustang. It's childish.
1/15/15, 02:02 PM
#197
Yes, and big displacement engines might be going away...
That being said, I'd prefer a 3.5L V8 over a 3.5L V6, just for the sound and feel.
I imagine that the V8 would cost more to making, having more parts to machine, move valves and other parts to put together. I'd pay something extra for it however.
That being said, I'd prefer a 3.5L V8 over a 3.5L V6, just for the sound and feel.
I imagine that the V8 would cost more to making, having more parts to machine, move valves and other parts to put together. I'd pay something extra for it however.
1/15/15, 02:06 PM
#198
GT Member
While I do not disagree with the general concept of what you say, let me turn it around a bit and see what changes.
"Please get all the spilled Anthrax off the kitchen floor."
If you actually somehow spilled Anthrax on the kitchen floor, would a broom and/or vacuum be enough? Or would you spend any amount of money required to make sure it was completely and 100% gone?
I don't want to get into a debate of the harmfulness of what comes out of power plants, rather I'm suggesting another example of why the government might be making those rules tighter and tighter.
Agree or disagree, if the consensus is that the stuff coming out is unacceptable, then it is unacceptable and must be stopped, no matter the cost.
"Please get all the spilled Anthrax off the kitchen floor."
If you actually somehow spilled Anthrax on the kitchen floor, would a broom and/or vacuum be enough? Or would you spend any amount of money required to make sure it was completely and 100% gone?
I don't want to get into a debate of the harmfulness of what comes out of power plants, rather I'm suggesting another example of why the government might be making those rules tighter and tighter.
Agree or disagree, if the consensus is that the stuff coming out is unacceptable, then it is unacceptable and must be stopped, no matter the cost.
There should come a time when the air is deamed "clean enough" and MPGs are acceptable enough....
Does anyone really think that will happen though? Do we honestly think the EPA and whoever writes the CAFE standards are ever going to be satisfied?
Or will it take an act of congress to say, "Enough already!!"
Until then things are going to get more and more expensive with smaller results
1/15/15, 02:12 PM
#199
SUPERCHARGED RED ROCKET ------------------Master-Moderator
1/15/15, 02:13 PM
#200
I almost got a V6 when I got my GT. It was better all around - mpg, financially, etc...but I couldn't give up the V8 sound. Power, I couldn't care less about. 305 is perfectly fine for me. I wish I had gotten a 2010 GT back then, as it was perfect for me. But this is what was available. 17mpg combined and all