rhumb

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2011 Kona Blue

Let's face it. Ford will never make 100% mustang fans happy on this redesign. Ford will loose some Mustang customers after this redesign and Ford will gain some new buyers. Ford has to keep with the times and broaden there customer buyer basis. I suspect it will have a euro look but Mustang soul and semi American Muscle feel. The stang needs a new fresh look like GM did for the Camaro in order to take back lead sales on the pony car war.

True dis^.

At every significant and semi-significant remodel, there is always a die-hard lump of curmudgeons bemoaning the passing of the previous variant and how that represents all that's evil in this mortal coil. However, lest the Stang be seen solely in the parking lots of the local senior centers, it does need to keep young and fresh, which is far more at the core of what a Stang is than any particular yesteryear stylistic shtick.

Think of the Mustang when it was released way back yonder in '64 and what it represented in the context of the market at the time. It was hardly some golden-age muscle car through which 60-somethings could reminisce their glory days of their youth and days gone by. Rather, it was a fresh, modern sport coupe aimed at a young, hip and vibrant clientele.

It's styling was rather international for its day and the biggest engine wasn't some hulking big-block huffing out 400+ horse powers and torques at the first inch of throttle tip in but some small, highish tech (for an American V8) high winder. Trim and tidy size and weight made for handling that if not quite Euro agile, at least was far better than the typical cloddish musclecar embarrassment.

Do bear in mind that the current motors readily meet and generally blow away all but a few of the strongest big blocks from the later '60's/early '70's should a few knuckle-draggers still demand a muscle car behemoth, at least in terms of straight line performance. There's nothing that would remotely touch the current GT500 at the strip and even the 5.0 will soundly trounce any of the stock 427/428/429s of the day. Even the 3.7 V6 will outrun the vast majority of V8 Stangs of the first 40 years.

That firepower will likely continue with the 2015 though one may have to accept ride and handling excellence too. Oh well, guess one can strap on a set of Mileage Master bias plies, some bargain-basement brake pads and blown out shocks, along with some doughy-soft suspension bushings, for that true muscle-car experience.)

The '64 Mustang was an adept blend of contemporary Euro and Amur'can traits will be a clear return to these very qualities that distinguished to Mustang, creating the iconic standard of the pony car. I think this return to its roots is overdue and will both refresh and strengthen the Mustang and its long-term viability into the future.

Twin Turbo

rhumb, you are correct, of course. However, when Ford launched the Mustang back in '64, it created the pony car market, so it really didn't have any competition.

Move forwards 50 years and almost every manufacturer has a pony car of sorts, even if that's a FWD 4-cylinder coupe, it still represents what a pony car was all about.....style and just enough substance. Problem is though, the majority of the current day pony cars (and I use the term lightly, but think anything from the new Toyota/Subaru twins, to BMW 3 series coupes, and lots in between).....the majority of them just don't stand out from the crowd. That's where retro (if you want to call it that) came into its own as the new Mustang, Camaro and Challenger looked like....well, a Mustang, Camaro and Challenger! Strong identities that reflected 40-odd years of great cars.

My fear is that an Evos/European styled Mustang will just blend into the pony car crowd just a little too much.

Still, I'm sure (at least hope) Ford knows what they are doing and I'm not going to write the car off until I've seen the real thing

rhumb

I don't think a reression to retro styling, essentially living off past glories, is the sole avenue to unique, distinctive and compelling sport coupe/Pony Car design. That many sport coupe designs today are somewhat generic is a concern, but that seems to be the case with a lot of contemporary design in general and not limited to sport coupes.

I think the Evos is a great melding of very modern design yet also incorporates some traditional Mustang design cues (hips, lights for example) and could readily incorporate fully modern interpretations of more without becoming a quasi-recreation of some bygone Stang.

The trick is how to be avant garde and different without coming off with awkwardly executed designs that seem to be different simply for difference's sake in some contrarian vain, Bangle-era BMW's being a prime example of this.

As I've mentioned before, if Ford takes the Evos, stretches the nose to house a big V8, add a bigger mouth, side scallops and tri-lens-tail lights, I think you would have a perfect and perfectly modern Mustang that would look like nothing else but a Mustang fully of today.

Wolfsburg

I agree completely and in this aspect, I think the S550 could be more "retro" than some think, if not in styling then in philosophy.

UnrealFord

I agree..

Dave07997S

Don't know if it sheds anything new though..

http://www.motorauthority.com/news/1...mill-cranks-up

Twin Turbo

Nothing new, but nicely captures the most recent rumours

AWmustang

This article mentioned the Nano engine but said it would likely not be a turbo. Another article I read referenced the Nano as a new small V6 (3.0L) with eco-boost. I can't seem to find where that other reference was. Anyone have any other references to Nano and whether it will be NA or Turbo?

Topnotch

Ford is said to be working on two all-new six-cylinder engines under a program codenamed “Nano.”
The Nano mills are expected to continue Ford’s efforts to shrink engine displacement while using turbocharging to boost power levels and return superior mileage. They are said to have displacements of approximately 2.6 or 2.7 liters and 3.0 liters and are expected to find their way into the next-gen Mustang as well as the F-150. Other Ford vehicles are likely to host these engines, as well.
The 3.0-liter V-6 is said to have a power target of approximately 300 to 315 horsepower, almost the same as today’s entry-level naturally aspirated 305-hp, 3.7-liter V-6. Instead of twin turbos, the Nano engines are expected to use so-called dual-stage turbocharging, where two different-sized turbos work independently or in tandem. One turbo is used at low speeds for drivability and fuel economy, while the second turbo spools up at high speeds to deliver extra power.

rhumb

I think that the Nano will be a family of "small block" V6s to slot in below the current "big block" Duratec family. I imagine, as with the Duratecs, there will be both NA and FI versions.

I like the idea of smaller V6s for a couple of reasons:

Big V6s, above 3.5 liters or so, can get a bit coarse and rough with their NVH, at least without additional balancers. They current 3.7 is on the edge here and Nissan's 3.7 is sort of known for being less than euphonious when revved, even if they both make good power.

Small V6s are smoother and compact enough to fit into smaller cars to give them a much more sophisticated feel than any four banger. While this might not be so important in, say, a Focus, should Lincoln decide to offer some small yet upmarket cars, this may indeed be a critical selling point, i.e., you Lincoln doesn't sound/feel like its powered by a crude economotor. Likewise, they can provide a more economical yet still very refined option for larger and higher end cars too.

I4s, while inherently a bit rough (second order imbalance), get really raucous at much above 2.3 liters without additional (weight, complexity) balance shafts. While the balance shafts can subdue the 2nd order cacophony, a four banger still does not puree its power/torque pulses as finely and smoothly as a six nor do they sound as melodic on the ears.

I had a Probe GT for many years and simply loved its modest sized 2.5 liter V6. It was smooth as cream, even at 7K rpm, sonorous as a Ferrari Dino (once Borla exhaust was installed) and simply elevated to feeling like a premium piece of machinery with its burbles, snarls and sophisticated operation. Most cars in its class did have four bangers and the little six really distinguished the Probe (and its littermate Mazda MX-6).


Sure, four bangers can be coerced in many ways to make similar objective numbers of power and perhaps better efficiency, but they do feel coerced at elevated power/rpm ranges and never produce nearly the same subjective experience.

PTRocks

Check out this crazy **** V6 block. Two large parts nestled on inside the other.

There are also a number of other patent applications for exhaust manifolds INSIDE the cylinder head, etc.

block1.pdf
block2.pdf
block3.pdf

montreal ponies

Interesting find Chris, thanks.

Gakman727

A wealth of Knowledge - Very Interesting, Thanks.....

Liquid

Are you referring to manifolds integrated into the head, or manifolds that dump into the valley between heads? Maybe both?

RandyW

Is it the total displacement that makes these engines buzzier as they get larger or is it specifically the stroke or bore? For instance if you had two different 2.5 inline 4's and one had a big bore/short stroke and the other was small bore/long stroke, would they be equally buzzy or would one be worse?

908ssp

Typically the longer stroke would have more torque and the larger bore more hp. Piston speed is generally considered to be a maximum at 4000 feet per minute therefore the shorter stroke can have a higher maximum rpm and the long stroke a lower rpm. Buzzier to me means higher rpm motor in that you have to rev the **** out of it to get it to work so the big bore would be buzzier. You can see this is a mater of semantics what you mean by buzzy. Also the technology has advanced to a point where some of the previous rules are being stretched.

fmstang68

I believe most Mustang fans like the car because the design is uniquely American. There are many European looking cars to go around without designing the Mustang to look the same.

There have been years where the Mustang design was timeless (mid-late 60's) and there were years where it was awful (mid 70's-JMO).

Long after the Boomers are gone, there will be their children who enjoyed the Mustang for what it is: an uniquely American experience.

Five.Point.Oh

For the last time! The original Mustang has European-influenced design! And, your S197 was influenced by that Mustang, therefore your Mustang has European-influenced design! And, yeah, the 2015 Mustang will have European design, whether you like it or not! There is no doubt that the general public will think it looks good, as you have seen their reactions to the 2013 Fusion. Ford knows what they're doing. They're creating a global car here and a uniquely-american styled car will not sale much anywhere else. The important part is that it keeps the pony-car formula: long hood, short deck, rwd, and V8 opt.

Boomer

Yes it WILL sell over there, and no it won't have to look Euro.

Why is this so hard for people to get?
It's a mustang, it will stay Mustang, and we all get the Mustang.

tbi0904

Because for some it's more fun to speculate that the sky is falling.