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Old Aug 14, 2012 | 06:32 AM
  #101  
Brewman's Avatar
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From: Maryland
Originally Posted by bob
Yes, with synthetic oils, water cooling, and better engineering reliability is much improved compared to earlier factory efforts.

Seems to me cooked bearings were the big problem back in the 80's attributable to using dino oil and non-water cooled turbos that baked the oil causing a coking problem in the bearings plus heat-exchangers were fancy stuff back then when it came to the pressure side of things.
Intercoolers have made a big difference. Also you really need to treat a Turbo differently if they are tuned for Performance and not just a little boost. A performance Turbo needs to cool down and recirculate the oil before you Shut it off, this is why turbo Timers exist.
Turbo also use/consume more oil than normal engines. Many people think that just because a car is new it does not consume oil. This is not true and low oil can KILL a turbo quick.
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Old Aug 15, 2012 | 04:57 PM
  #102  
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Originally Posted by Overboost
Yeah, displacement. Doesn't mean you couldn't aim for a higher hp/L figure on a smaller V8 to keep things interesting.
I really hope that Ford does not change the displacement for the entry level V8 if it’s naturally aspired.
I not particular fond of the idea of a small displacement engine, sure it sound cool (hp/L), but these type of engines are tapped out from the factory. It takes a good amount of effort and money to increase power NA in a small cubed engine yielding minimal performance beyond what the factory intended them to produce. I think many enthusiast would be turned off by a move like this if ford where to implement it.
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Old Aug 15, 2012 | 06:06 PM
  #103  
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Originally Posted by TTS197

I really hope that Ford does not change the displacement for the entry level V8 if it’s naturally aspired.
I not particular fond of the idea of a small displacement engine, sure it sound cool (hp/L), but these type of engines are tapped out from the factory. It takes a good amount of effort and money to increase power NA in a small cubed engine yielding minimal performance beyond what the factory intended them to produce. I think many enthusiast would be turned off by a move like this if ford where to implement it.
I agree as long as the MPG is where the feds say it needs to be. As far as I'm concerned the 5.0 is small enough GM and Chrysler have had more cubes this whole time with similar mpg numbers. I think with direct injection and some more refinement we will see the 5.0 in 30mpg range, more than enough for the foreseeable future.
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Old Aug 15, 2012 | 06:55 PM
  #104  
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Originally Posted by TTS197

I really hope that Ford does not change the displacement for the entry level V8 if it’s naturally aspired.
I not particular fond of the idea of a small displacement engine, sure it sound cool (hp/L), but these type of engines are tapped out from the factory. It takes a good amount of effort and money to increase power NA in a small cubed engine yielding minimal performance beyond what the factory intended them to produce. I think many enthusiast would be turned off by a move like this if ford where to implement it.
I doubt the Coyote is going to change much between now and 2015. I don't even expect DI to be added for the new car.
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Old Aug 15, 2012 | 09:43 PM
  #105  
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When Coyote appeared on the scene insiders were saying it would be around for "a long time" and I've not seen any contradicting statements since. CAFE standards will allow the V8 to stick around a a niche offering as long as there are efficient models to balance them out.
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Old Aug 16, 2012 | 09:18 AM
  #106  
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Originally Posted by Moosetang
When Coyote appeared on the scene insiders were saying it would be around for "a long time" and I've not seen any contradicting statements since. CAFE standards will allow the V8 to stick around a a niche offering as long as there are efficient models to balance them out.
Yup, and another reason why the base model will likely go to a Ecoboost engine.
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Old Aug 16, 2012 | 10:36 AM
  #107  
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Originally Posted by jedikd
Yup, and another reason why the base model will likely go to a Ecoboost engine.

The 3.7 is just as new as the 5.0 and equally impressive for what it is. Why would Ford keep the 5.0 and scrap the 3.7? I think with a lighter platform and a few tweaks the 3.7 would be just as efficient as a turbo 4. The Ecoboost is also probably more expensive to build than the established 3.7.
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Old Aug 16, 2012 | 10:40 AM
  #108  
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From another forum:

The red text is updated info from the site. It's claimed this info comes from 2 Ford employees..........



http://www.mustang6g.com/forums/showthread.php?t=58

-The new Mustang is slated to come out for the 2015 MY. It will be riding on the current S197 platform, albeit highly modified. The project is believed to be named S550.

-IRS (independent rear suspension) will be gained.

-Weight will be lost. Ford's goal is to shed 200-300 LBS off the car depending on trim. Since it is riding on the current platform, the weight rumors may be off.

-Retro will be out, and Evos Concept's Kinetic design language will be in, but it will keep all of the traditional Mustang bits: long hood, short deck, RWD, and affordable.

-EcoBoost will be seen in this generation, most likely as a four-pot. Displacement is still unknown.

-The fate of the V6 is still unknown, but recent spy pix have given the wonderful Duratec hope.

-V8 is not going anywhere.

-Based on recent spy pix of an early mule, we will be seeing a new exhaust resonator that Ford has patented.

-An all-new interior is going to debut, obviously with MFT.

-A RWD Lincoln will spawn from this platform, supposedly replacing the MKS. Expect it to release in the 2015-2016 MY.

Last edited by Twin Turbo; Aug 16, 2012 at 10:41 AM.
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Old Aug 16, 2012 | 11:32 AM
  #109  
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If weight is not shed from this car, count me out. Mustang is too fracking huge.
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Old Aug 16, 2012 | 11:35 AM
  #110  
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Originally Posted by Twin Turbo
From another forum:

The red text is updated info from the site. It's claimed this info comes from 2 Ford employees..........

http://www.mustang6g.com/forums/showthread.php?t=58

-The new Mustang is slated to come out for the 2015 MY. It will be riding on the current S197 platform, albeit highly modified. The project is believed to be named S550.

-IRS (independent rear suspension) will be gained.

-Weight will be lost. Ford's goal is to shed 200-300 LBS off the car depending on trim. Since it is riding on the current platform, the weight rumors may be off.

-Retro will be out, and Evos Concept's Kinetic design language will be in, but it will keep all of the traditional Mustang bits: long hood, short deck, RWD, and affordable.

-EcoBoost will be seen in this generation, most likely as a four-pot. Displacement is still unknown.

-The fate of the V6 is still unknown, but recent spy pix have given the wonderful Duratec hope.

-V8 is not going anywhere.

-Based on recent spy pix of an early mule, we will be seeing a new exhaust resonator that Ford has patented.

-An all-new interior is going to debut, obviously with MFT.

-A RWD Lincoln will spawn from this platform, supposedly replacing the MKS. Expect it to release in the 2015-2016 MY.
I still foresee Ford dropping the weight. Just do what the M3 GTS did. Carbon fiber hood, roof and trunk lid. That will help.
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Old Aug 16, 2012 | 01:51 PM
  #111  
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A highly modified S197 chassis explains how we're seeing the new IRS tested with the current body.
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Old Aug 16, 2012 | 02:12 PM
  #112  
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Originally Posted by Liquid
If weight is not shed from this car, count me out. Mustang is too fracking huge.
Agreed.

The S550 has to shed some weight because the Alpha camaro is going to be light as hell.
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Old Aug 16, 2012 | 05:45 PM
  #113  
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Originally Posted by elbowz11

Agreed.

The S550 has to shed some weight because the Alpha camaro is going to be light as hell.
What is your definition of "light as hell"? The ATS is just under 3400. Not shabby but it's no Miata. The Camaro will be around this point. The S550 should easily be able to scrap that much bulk. There are plenty of ways to trim the fat on the new mustangs.
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Old Aug 16, 2012 | 05:51 PM
  #114  
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its possible they could use an aluminum frame like they are experimenting with the truck line, lots of weight savings there..
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Old Aug 16, 2012 | 06:02 PM
  #115  
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From: Columbus
Originally Posted by Automagically

What is your definition of "light as hell"? The ATS is just under 3400. Not shabby but it's no Miata. The Camaro will be around this point. The S550 should easily be able to scrap that much bulk. There are plenty of ways to trim the fat on the new mustangs.
It's a 3400 lb Cadillac! The Alpha Camaro has potential to be very light.
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Old Aug 16, 2012 | 07:15 PM
  #116  
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Originally Posted by Automagically

I still foresee Ford dropping the weight. Just do what the M3 GTS did. Carbon fiber hood, roof and trunk lid. That will help.
Carbon fiber is going to make the already expensive mustang even more so. I'd rather have a physically smaller car than extra aluminum and carbon fiber. I'm afraid that a $50000 GT is just on the horizon considering they already are often in the 40k range
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Old Aug 16, 2012 | 07:18 PM
  #117  
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Originally Posted by Liquid

It's a 3400 lb Cadillac! The Alpha Camaro has potential to be very light.
I don't see the camaro being much lighter, it will probably have heavier cheaper materials to keep it in the Chevy price range or be the same. I think Ford can match that number with some newer lighter materials
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Old Aug 16, 2012 | 08:46 PM
  #118  
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Originally Posted by Automagically
What is your definition of "light as hell"? The ATS is just under 3400. Not shabby but it's no Miata. The Camaro will be around this point. The S550 should easily be able to scrap that much bulk. There are plenty of ways to trim the fat on the new mustangs.
Light as hell compared to the portly 5th gen

Alpha Camaro will no doubt be able to shed a decent amount of weight just due to the fact that it’s not a luxury car. It's allowed to be louder and less refined than the ATS.

This is not to say it is guaranteed to come in significantly lighter than the ATS but the potential is certainly there. Ford is surely aware of this.


Originally Posted by Liquid
It's a 3400 lb Cadillac! The Alpha Camaro has potential to be very light.
Seems were on the same page brotanski

*brofist*

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Old Aug 16, 2012 | 09:01 PM
  #119  
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Originally Posted by 97GT03SVT

Carbon fiber is going to make the already expensive mustang even more so. I'd rather have a physically smaller car than extra aluminum and carbon fiber. I'm afraid that a $50000 GT is just on the horizon considering they already are often in the 40k range
If ford really is working to make cf more available for the masses with their new deal with Dow then I'm all for it. Thats why I suggested it.

I agree, no way it's any lighter than the ATS. The 3400lbs is the lowest weight ATS. So I doubt the Camaro will do better.
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Old Aug 17, 2012 | 12:32 AM
  #120  
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Originally Posted by Twin Turbo
From another forum:

The red text is updated info from the site. It's claimed this info comes from 2 Ford employees..........



http://www.mustang6g.com/forums/showthread.php?t=58

-The new Mustang is slated to come out for the 2015 MY. It will be riding on the current S197 platform, albeit highly modified. The project is believed to be named S550.

-IRS (independent rear suspension) will be gained.

-Weight will be lost. Ford's goal is to shed 200-300 LBS off the car depending on trim. Since it is riding on the current platform, the weight rumors may be off.

-Retro will be out, and Evos Concept's Kinetic design language will be in, but it will keep all of the traditional Mustang bits: long hood, short deck, RWD, and affordable.

-EcoBoost will be seen in this generation, most likely as a four-pot. Displacement is still unknown.

-The fate of the V6 is still unknown, but recent spy pix have given the wonderful Duratec hope.

-V8 is not going anywhere.

-Based on recent spy pix of an early mule, we will be seeing a new exhaust resonator that Ford has patented.

-An all-new interior is going to debut, obviously with MFT.

-A RWD Lincoln will spawn from this platform, supposedly replacing the MKS. Expect it to release in the 2015-2016 MY.
Well this goes along well with what we've seen from the mule. The rear suspension and exhaust appear to be far enough along that they have to be working off a derivative of the S197. From the new muffler setup, it does not look like the car will be losing much length from behind the rear axle.
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