sam strano

Some good basic information there. But a lot that's not, and a lot of opinion. And here is my rub with that. When you read something like "autocross secrets" you'd hope they would be from someone with a lot of success. Not the case with that author. He won on championship in a class he got created, very early on (before anyone did any real development) and running ProSolo's in an AWD car that had a big launch advantage over everything else. As the class progressed, his results went the wrong way (as the others got quicker).

Also, I had taught this person in a school. The purpose of a school is to teach, not to beat the crap out of someone or their car. Where he launched the car, I rolled away, which in a turbo car isn't fast. Shockingly instead of looking at the information about the course/driving the car, he got hung up on beating me and then I guess thought it'd be funny to tell the world that I shifted like a Grandma...... No good deed goes unpunished. This turkey also proclaimed when the Evo 8 showed up that it *would not go faster than it was stock*

Bear these things in mind as you read. Please.

Some folks talk a good game, some just understand the game and play it well. One of us has a lot more success than the other...........

CO_VaporGT_09

Interesting points, Sam -- this is a rather old site, and his 'success' is rather old as well.

However, I think the info on the shocks (which is mostly what I read) is likely all valid. Shock dynos don't lie, and the particular shocks he talks about (Bilstein, Koni, Penske, Ohlins, etc) are all acknowledged quality leaders. I like the way he explains WHY they're the quality ones out there, and points out the lack of repeatability in the various adjustment ***** we all like. I know the Tokico's **** was essentially meaningless -- wouldn't even 'reset' to the same number of turns from zero. Wouldn't be surprised if the Koni isn't as repeatable off the shelf as we all like, either, and the limits of its travel does either give way too much or too little damping.

Problem is, without a shock dyno or someone willing to dyno them, hard to know if you have a set that match up well or not.

Would be nice to see some discussion on the AST and KW as they're bolt-on for the S197s, as opposed to Penske, Sachs, Ohlins, etc.

jacostang

I agree, he talked to me personally for about 30 mins...

sam strano

It's all relative. I can't say I agree that the D-spec's know were meaningless. I used a set for a year, and found them to be much better than I had expected. And even after I changed to Koni's when I drove cars properly setup on D-specs they weren't exactly slow. That said the adjustment setup is a little less precise than say a Koni. Anything with out a stop at one end would be like that.

There is variation in EVERYTHING, even the high-zoot shocks. There are in engines, in cars, in tires, etc. etc. etc. In the end, what feels right is right. I don't much care where a shock is set as long the car behaves the way I want.

Back on point about shocks mattering. Anyone catch the Car and Driver article a month or two ago that showed the 2011 GT/Brembo with the worse damping index of the cars tested (others being a Miata, GTI, EvoX, Mini Cooper S). Body roll was shown to the be least on the Mustang stock, which bolsters my argument that the roll itself isn't that bad (though can be improved), but the roll rate is poor. In fact they mention something to that effect in the article too.

Secondhandloser

sam-- If I'm not ready to pony up for yellows, are d-specs the way to go?

sam strano

If you want adjustables, yes. They are $120 or so less per set (and available as I have a few sets in stock right now) and they don't suck. I had a set myself, the Koni's are a little better overall, but they aren't 15% better considering the 15% price difference.

Don't get me wrong, my car will have Koni's on it (and it does). But I'm picky.

CO_VaporGT_09

No doubt the D-Specs are a step up from the stock shocks -- I did see that article and was very interesting, given we all know that the stock Mustang shocks are extremely cheap (quality, and even replacement price) and one of the first areas to upgrade.

So you've said before the Boss is the older Tokico Illumina design, any idea what the difference from those to the D-specs are? The Boss definitely didn't get the same poor damping review the base GT has. I also wonder exactly what valving difference there is to the LS adjustables compared to the standard Boss.

The repeatability of the adjustments is a bigger deal for me as I like to stiffen them up a bit for track work, and softer for the street and ride home. The D-specs just never seemed to go back to the same setting, both in feel and in the precision of the adjustment screw itself. Don't know if the Koni's are that much better in that regard, but they do seem to damp better (put a set on the rear already, not sure what I'll do with the front though).

Secondhandloser

OK--I'm mostly just interested in getting rid of the floaty feeling from the rear at high speeds, not necessarily planning on keeping the car forever or driving it competitively (I'm definitely still the weak link). Most of the use will be street or occasional autoX. D specs with steeda's the way to go then? Or any other damper/spring options that are worth looking into?

psipher

So it's 1.Koni yellows
2.D.specs
3.Koni str.t
with or without springs

sam strano

Well, you want to consider if you really want or need springs. Often that's a yes, but I find a lot of folks do them because they think they have to, or because they think they are responsible for things that are really fault of the OEM dampers.

I won't say don't do springs, you likely will want them, many do. Just sayin' that they aren't required to make the car settle down a lot.

sam strano

Personally that's how they stack up for me. Bilstein being tied for 3 with the Koni, on performance and build but the STR.T's getting the nod due to less cost/better value.

Secondhandloser

I want to get rid of some wheel gap. I'm well aware that from a performance standpoint they are probably not needed, but I'm just a little vain.

Any other thoughts on which springs/dampers to go with?

sam strano

What you seem to want is exactly what the Koni STR.T/Steeda Sport combination is meant to be. A good solid foundations where the dampers are good, match and control the springs well for street drivers who aren't after and don't want adjustable shocks.


You'll find it listed as a HP1 kit on my site here: http://www.stranoparts.com/partdetai...205&ModelID=35

Glenn

thats what I am running and I'm lovin it.

flashpasta

to strano's comment about the 3.73 gears used has a hype play, I kind of agree. But maybe ford used the 3.73 to force more gear shifting to allow the perception of going faster or more driver engagement. they prolly even think that if the body rolls more your going through corners faster to! lol!

M3hunter

Hi Seconhandloser,

I went with Sam's recommendation of the Koni STRT and Steeda Sport,
for the same reasons that you are looking on how to improve your Mustang, and it solved all the issues that you mentioned, gone the floating feeling, it feels like a better car with improved handling, better looks, and personally I was not looking to make any adjustments to the shocks (Koni Sport's should be great, if you need to make frequent adjustments for your driving), that is why I went with the STRT and Steeda Sport Springs. I'm just waiting to have some time to go to the track to test it. On my point of view that is the first thing that you need to do to the Mustang to improve it. I had Bilstein HD on my prior '02 Porsche Carrera. I feel that the shocks & struts are on the same level of perdormance, and at a much better price did not miss the bilsteins. Thanks Sam!

m4a1mustang

I have had my Koni Yellows sitting in my garage for about 10 months now. I am going to install them in the spring (3-4 months out). I am the definition of lazy. I am the 99%.

VTXFrank

I must be the 1% then. When a part shows up, unless something HUGE is going on in life, it's installed within a day or two! When my STR.T's got here, they were installed within 1.5 hours of being dropped off.

sam strano

By the way, I've heard that some are having issues finding STR.T's. Not sure why as I have a bunch, and Koni NA has some in stock too. But if you've been looking, you can stop because I've got 'em.

And here's what I've been searching for with regard to the Car and Driver test and the damping.
http://www.caranddriver.com/features...andling-page-8
Check it out, the Mustang has what they determined to have the worse damping control (shocking! Yes, pun intended) of any of those cars, by quite a bit.

Also note that the body roll in degrees per G is LOWEST in the Brembo Mustang. This just tells you even more how poor the shocks are. Because shocks control roll rate. The car doesn't roll that much, but it generates the roll really, really fast which makes it feel like a lot more than is real.

Can you make it roll less? Yes, but remember the car has really big sway bars on it stock. I go bigger in front, stay in the ball-park or *smaller* in the rear (trust me, it's better) and add adjustment to both bars so you can really dial in the balance you want. Also springs will make it roll less, and when teamed with good shocks (see the above posts) the ride is quite good, and in some important ways like impact harshness, is improved.

But you see, this is why I'm such a shock picky guy. It's the foundation. Some laugh, but clearly it matters

VTXFrank

I know that after I went with your recommendations, I can now corner so hard that my *** will slide right out of the leather seat in my car! I need a MUCH more laterally supportive drivers seat now thanks to you Sam! LOL!

Seriously though, my car will reach the cornering limit of the tires I have on it way before I reach the limit of the suspension. And even then, I'm being laterally pushed out of my seat if I do corner that hard. The car stays very flat through out corners now. It was, and is, simply amazing how much of a difference the STR.T's make.

Doing just the springs first and leaving the stock dampers in, much of the nose dive and excessive squat was cured. But I was still not able to go around this one sweeping curve at more than 75mph due to the rear end feeling like it was kicking out/floating around over some small undulations in the road surface. Also, the body roll had been reduced by the springs, but I still had what I considered excessive body roll. Having come from a Honda Civic SI Coupe that felt like it was riding on rails with a full after-market suspension, the floatiness of the Mustang was really irritating.

Once I installed the STR.T's, it was a whole different experience. I could take that same sweeping curve faster than my seat could keep me in control of the car. Prior to the new dampers, I couldn't pull more than .89g in that curve. After the dampers, I was suddenly able to pull 1.175g and had to let off the gas, well into triple digit speeds, because my *** wouldn't stay in the seat.

So while the STR.T's aren't adjustable, Koni has done one hell of a nice job in valving them.