Don't hold your breath.

 

Well, if the market tanks, then there will be a black convertible for someone else waiting :-/

 

I hate to go into an ADM rant but here goes, guys we have seen this time and time again! Who in the hell is stupid enough to pay an A$$hole Dealer Markup on a Shelby GT500 when there are currently 37,949 Shelby GT500 Mustangs produced since 2007 on the road today not including 2013 models! Seriously who shows that absolute sheer amount of stupidity and gullibility!

First off the original Shelby mustangs were far rarer than they are today. The 1967 Shelby GT500 was 1 out of every 230 mustangs produced for that year. Todays numbers are no where near that.

2011 68650 mustangs produced/ 5100 GT500s produced = 1 out of every 13.5 mustangs
2009 46420 mustangs produced/ 4130 GT500\KRs produced = 1 out of every 11.2 mustangs
2008 108767 mustangs produced/ 9583 GT500\KRs produced = 1 out of every 11.3 mustangs
2007 158180 mustangs produced/ 10844 GT500s produced = 1 out of every 14.6 mustangs
1969-70 498063 mustangs produced/ 2024 GT500s produced = 1 out of every 246.1 mustangs
1968 317404 mustangs produced/ 2794 GT500\KRs produced = 1 out of every 113.6 mustangs
1967 472121 mustangs produced/ 2050 Gt500s produced = 1 out of every 230.3 mustangs

Spare me the limited numbers garbage that is fed to you by Ford salesmen in showrooms with absolutely no confirmation by Ford! Then again out of sheer dimwitted thought process since you can't find info on Ford stating production isn't limited you automatically assume Ford is somehow not in the business to make money! Ford is in business to recoup production costs on the new and improved 2013 GT500 plain and simple. The more they sell the faster they recouperate their costs. The March issue of Car and Driver answered this question by Ford specifically. "The 2013 GT500 Production numbers are limited, too as many as consumer will buy!"

Remember the 2010 Shelby production to be limited to 2,000 units? All Bull$h!+ started by a ford dealer with no proof of information from Ford. This hit the web big time due to frenzied and gullible consumers. http://www.autoblog.com/2009/07/09/r...to-2-000-unit/
2010 GT500 numbers turned out to be 4,453 by the way, a bit more than 2,000!

Remember the 2 year limited run starting in 2007? How is that working out for you? The 2015 GT500 is already confirmed! This car is not going to turn into a gold mine in 40 years. There are way too many of them on the road. The baby boomers retired and paid ridiculous prices for the 60's Shelby's because the stock market was fickle and the original Shelby's were so rare. Do not expect the same in 2050, it isn't going to happen! Your 2013 with PP will not be selling for over 2 million dollars in 40 years or sell for 40 times its retail price like the 67 or 68 were at auctions a few years back.

The dealer is easily making $8,000 to 10,000 profit on this car from cost to MSRP. I have a price list from a few years back and a stripped down 2008 GT500 with no options at all the dealer made $5,500 plus if the vehicle was sold at MSRP. Ford makes no money past dealer cost so if you pay an ADM don't blame Ford! That is you being stupid enough to buy the salesman's yacht in the Keys on a vehicle that is anything but limited. Also when you lack ***** or a backbone to prevent consumer price gouging you are letting him know he can screw over more consumers in the process!

Even on this car invoice is more than fair! You are saving some money and he is making some money! Nobody in thier right mind has paid ADM's since 2008 when the initial novelty of the car wore off. People getting 2013's around invoice has been happening since March as a local dealer I frequent sold one for $500 over. Dealers are competitive and they want your business, shop around!

The 2013 Shelby is a fabulous car, but at $55,000 starting price few in todays economy can afford one. Cars are not good investments so if you are looking to make money on something go elsewhere. Drive this car and enjoy it vs. putting it into storage for the next 40 years. Finally anyone being suckered into paying an A$$hole Dealer Markup please contact me, I have some ocean front property in Oklahoma to sell you!

 

Hey bud, I totally agree on the ADM rant. Its really silly that dealers are charging from $10K to $20K over MSRP!! They are just asking for negative comments for charging so much. At that inflated price, other cars come into the realm. For me, I've sold both cars at MSRP. Gladly at MSRP. Won't even think of an ADM. MSRP is fair on these cars, considering alot of dealers will be lucky to get 1 or 2 (the big dealers will get more, but most normal dealers one or 2). For a dealer getting 1 or 2, selling it at MSRP helps them out for selling all the invoice and under invoice deals on Focus, Fusion, Escape, etc. You may not like this, but it does help. Remember, a dealer is a business and has a right to make money, and the salespeople have a right to earn a living. To let you know, if I sell a GT500 at invoice, guess how much I make? $100 flat, BEFORE taxes. Does that sound fair? But it is WRONG for a dealer to sell the car at an ADM. I shake my head in disgust at dealers charging ADM!!

I've had many people calling me since I sell at MSRP asking to order them a car. I can't as I only have 2 allocaitons. I won't get more. I know the number Ford will be making, but I cannot tell as I'm sworn to secrecy. But its not the "Ford will make as many as people want" line. There is a cap and its not going to be like the 2007 or 2008 model year. May there be a limited more allocation late in the year? Possibly, but I wouldn't count on it.

One thing I want to mention to you. That report that you posted from Autoblog about the 2,000 unit total in 2010? I posted that info on TeamShelby.com back in the day. My other screen name on there is 06VistaBlueGT (its the name of my car I own). That was posted by me WITH PROOF!! If you go back and find that thread, and click on the pdf I had enclosed, I had a sales sheet from my zone rep that AT THE TIME, showed a limit of 2,000 cars!! So I had proof!! So don't go saying it was BS. It was backed by facts I was given by my zone rep!! Should I have not posted it? Someone else would have.

These cars are not going to be collectible, not in our lifetimes. But to say buying one at invoice is fair, sorry, not going to happen. Why don't you go walk into a Porsche dealer and ask to buy a 911 Turbo at invoice and see what happens? They make more Turbos than GT500s I'm pretty sure. And I can basically guarantee them saying NO!! What is wrong with a dealer (like myself) selling it for what Ford says its worth, because I'm getting one or two? I will sell any car on my lot at invoice, except the GT500 or Boss 302. These cars are not doritos and not able to be gotten like a regular Mustang. Both my customers who ordered their 2013s were totally okay with MSRP and understood why I couldn't discount them. One of them is GWW52, a forum member. He knows how much profit is in the car. I gave him his DORA the next day with the full breakdown, with invoice cost. Most people understand why they are at MSRP. Its the small few who think that everything should be availableb for a huge discount!!

I had someone come in and he asked me the price on a GT500. I told him I had none left, but if I did, they would be MSRP. He balked at the price. In a perfect world, I would ask him a question that pertains to what I see. If I see that they own a business, I ask what he does. If he does home remodeling, I ask him would his company give me their invoice price on a kitchen remodel. I know he would tell me no as he is a business and have to make a profit. What is the difference for me? We all know holdback on pretty much every car on the lot is eaten up for interest payments on the cars and paying for the lights and such. I just get bummed when someone comes on here and says GT500s are a fair price at invoice. Just my $0.02!!

 

I have no issue with anyone paying MSRP on a Shelby and never have. ADM's irratate me obviously. The 2013 Shelby is a fabulous car and much improved over the initial 07-09 models but with a starting MSRP of $14,000 more. Most cars don't go up $14,000 in 6 years, but with the improvements in the Mustang and Shelby in general I believe it to be a fair markup. I simply am not paying $20,000 or $10,000 for that matter over dealer cost. I am shooting for invoice next spring and since I know someone who payed $500 over invoice in March I should easily be able to do it.

 

Why the rant? It's not as though every dealer is going to start marking everything up $5k over invoice if someone pays ADM; Brian has a right to gripe about it because he's a salesman; you, on the other hand, have every right to go look elsewhere if a dealer charges you over MSRP. There's no need to call people names and accuse them of being stupid or weak or lacking ***** or a spine if they don't do things according to how you think they should be done. Hate to say it, but those dealers who charge ADM's are going to keep doing it because there are people out there who are going to pay it. There are dealers who don't, and always will be. Do your homework and find one, like I did, and there's no need to throw a fit on a message board because you won't have to pay an ADM. Frankly, if someone has the money to pay what's asked for a car and does so, you have no right to demean or belittle them; it's their money.

 

The key is consumers set the market! So when they agree to consumer price gouging it screws over every single other consumer wanting to get this vehicle at a decent price. How do you think the people that paid $25,000 over MSRP for a 2007 GT500 are feeling about the ADM they paid now? They got taken to the cleaners plain and simple and are far less likely to buy a Ford product in the future do to the poor and uninformed decision they made, but were fed the rhetorique by the dealer and were gullible and bought into it. Whether it is entirely their fault or not, the sour taste in their mouth left by the Ford dealer beyond the shadow of a doubt will hurt Ford sales in the long run. Trust me I have read more than enough posts by disgruntled GT500 owners to prove my point. Mainly around the limited 2 year run 07-08 time frame and they all regretted their decisions about paying ADM's after the fact. Ford Canada at least has a law preventing ADM's on vehicles.

 

As a matter of fact I am the one that called you out on the info from the original thread and I was dead on in the end. My point is it came from a zone rep, not the Ford Motor Company! There was no validity in the limited production of only 2,000 vehicles as proven by actual numbers and Ford confirmed this within weeks of the consumer panic spreading from a document that never came from Ford itself. Unless I see something posted on the Ford media Site I give it no validity.

 

I don't know specifically what you make, but the dealer as a whole makes far more than $100 if sold at invoice.

2008 GT500 Dealer Price $36,340 MSRP $41,930
D&D $745 $745
GG $1300 $1300
Ambient Lighting $248 $295
HID Headlamps $441 $525
Premium Interior Trim $500 $595
GT500 Vehicle Cover $315 $375
Navigation System $1676 $1995
Sirius Satellite $164 $195
Shaker 1000 $1088 $1295
Total Cost $42817 $49250

So for a stripped vehicle $5,590 profit and loaded $6,433 and that is on an 08 so profits have obviously gone up since then. I would guess easily $7,500 plus profit on the 2013 Shelby if sold at MSRP compared to dealer cost.

 

I am taking my source over yours. http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...pe-ride-review

" Production is “limited” to how many the company can sell—Ford would be happy with 10,000 a year—and there will be no effort to cap the run at a certain number."

The bottom line is Ford is in business to make money, end of story! It cost alot of money to improve the 2013 Shelby and to recoup the costs of production and development. The more they sell the faster they recoup those costs. I am sure if the information in Car and Driver is not factual Ford would not have allowed them to post it. Ford media is fully aware of every word that has been written in that article prior to it ever being printed and Ford gave them the info and we know from the past Ford is quick to dispell misinformation.

The 2013 mustang is selling, I wouldn't be surprised with sales north of 80,000 units. How many people can afford a $55,000-$70,000 mustang? That number diminishes exponentially as the price goes up, but I would guess 6,000-8,000 or higher depending on consumer demand.

 

Are you actually going to sit there and say that it's FORD's responsibility to do the consumers' homework, research, etc., for them?! PLEASE tell me you're not that ignorant. You're assuming everyone who bought one did so solely because it was a limited run vehicle--not because it was something they wanted to drive. Again, if a consumer overpays for something, it's on THEM--not the people who sell the products. how do you know they're upset with ford? Have you spoken with every GT500 owner that has bought one of the modern productions? I claim that you haven't and you have the red *** because these cars cost more than you think they should--and have yet to provide any reason other than "it's the dealers' fault I mean it's the consumers who have more money than me I mean it's ford's fault!!!1!!11!" I must say, if ford is suffering because of the GT500s sold with ADM attached to it, they're hiding it REALLY well. If your point is that there are people with buyer's remorse, congratulations, you've proven something that would take a grade-schooler five minutes to accomplish. Your intention, however, is that everyone who paid more than invoice for a GT500 is foaming at the mouth and has their lawyer's phone ringing off the hook because somehow ford is responsible for FORCING these people to take their wallet or checkbook out of their pocket and, against their will, sign a check or credit card receipt for payment of the car. That just isn't the case. There are plenty of people on this forum alone who are very happy with their Shelbys.

Here's some advice for you: stop worrying about what everyone else is doing, do your homework, find a dealer which will sell you whatever car you want at whatever price you want--or learn to be happy with second-hand vehicles. Oh, and find a job that makes you more money, because you really seem hung up on prices.

 

Calm down there cochese and take your blood pressure medication lol. I have said nothing at all is Ford's fault! Read my posts, I have defended Ford Motor Company at every turn! The dealer's are another story. Ford actually sent dealer's a memo back in 2007 concerning the ADM's on the GT500's specifically and wanted them to quit getting out of control as Ford felt the MSRP was more than a fair price and it would cost them business long term. It was a fair price back then and that more than certainly applies now with close to 40,000 of these limited production vehicles on the road LOL!!

Also today the GT500 has more competition in the form of the Camaro ZL1, SRT 392 Challenger, Corvettes as usual etc. How many sales is Ford losing as a result of ADM's where they simply go to another company to get a comparable vehicle? In the long term, ADM's beyond the shadow of a doubt will hurt Ford sales as the consumer will go to another brand at a better price if an ADM is attached. Not everyone has unlimited incomes as you apparently do, so the rest of us 99% are wise with our money and live better lives per income bracket due to not being frivilous with income. I also have never paid over retail price for anything in my life and never will even though I make close to 6 figures. Being a Physician Assistant is a plenty good job thank you and its growth and my future are more than secure lol! People that don't worry about prices or what they pay for things are the same people doing reverse mortgages on their homes during retirment. I can also tell you this, there isn't a self made millionare out there that is frivilous with his or her money. Is he was born into it that is another story.

Also a bunch of those 39,000 Shelby's out there were bought at invoice and under as were the SVT Cobra's before them. If someone wants to pay dealer cost to MSRP as stated before I have no issue. Anyone paying a penny over MSRP for a vehicle that will be made for years to come at numbers very representative of the price range offered is simply a fool. As a wise consumer I simply say no to ADM's and consumer price gouging! In the long term all other consumers benefit from my action. Lastly I give you this thread https://themustangsource.com/f727/yo...d-when-463330/
that is when this ADM stuff started to die back in 2008 and you guys are still falling for it lol, wtf! I live in rural Illinois and last fall all 3 of my dealers within 20 miles of home had a 2012 Shelby GT500. The sky is not falling trust me, for the people that can actually afford this vehicle they are very obtainable with no ADM attached and come fall and later under well MSRP with little difficulty.

 

I think you need to take your own advice...lots more !!!!!!'s in your posts than mine...I haven't asked for your life story, your income, your profession, and I never claimed anything about my own in my posts. Those are your assumptions, and you're free to make them, like you have with everything else regarding this discussion--just don't make the mistake of thinking your assumptions are any truer than anyone else's. To wit: you assume Chevy dealers won't add ADM's to Corvettes and/or ZL1's. I guarantee you they are. The SRT 392 is not much of a "challenger" to the GT500 for a number of reasons; its inclusion in this discussion is pointless--but Dodge dealers are adding ADM's to those as well. You asked how many sales Ford is losing as a result of ADM's on GT500's; why don't you answer your own question, and back it up with verifiable numbers? You're the one claiming their customer base is beating down doors to Chevy dealers across the country...And I will stake any amount of money on the fact that the majority of the GT500's that were sold at or below invoice were sold after the succeeding model year GT500 had made its appearance, not during its own MY run. Those cars are as expensive as they are for a reason, whether you believe that or not. Regarding whose numbers are more believable: yours or those from Ford themselves through salesmen who make us as enthusiasts aware of things in places like this, I'm going to listen to people like Jeff and Brian. They're in the industry, and CarandDriver--like every media outlet--publishes what they do to garner readership/viewership and has been known to misquote people and be wrong plenty of times.

 

You told me to get a better job and quit worrying about prices. Only fools are frivilous about what they pay for something. I was just at a Dodge dealer with 2 SRT 392 Challengers just outside of Chicago, neither one had an ADM. I have yet to see a Corvette on the lot with an ADM either. I haven't seen a ZL1 yet so there could be an ADM on those. You can't count lost sales and too assume a consumer has never been turned away from a product by a markup over retail is extremely foolish to say the least. The more affordable a product is sales will go up exponentially. Adding $8,000 plus ADM's will certainly turn away consumers and for you to think Ford will not lose sales because of this is beyond ignorant. Whether they go to another product or simply do not buy as it is not affordable to them.

If the Car and Driver article is misqouted I have to go no further than autoblog article where Ford quickly dispelled rumours of the limited production of the 2010 GT500's to 2,000 units. That was claimed false info by Ford very quickly after posting. If there is any other misinformation in the Car and Driver article let me know. With the exception of HP and torque as it hadn't been rated yet it looks dead on.

Bottom line is this my educated guess is Ford will sell more GT500's when at MSRP and below than with a $8,000 ADM. End result Ford will sell less GT500's, Ford makes no money off the ADM's so they get less profit to replenish costs for research and development of the 2013 Shelby. In the end consumers and Ford lose. If in this economy a $70,000 Shelby with a ADM is going to sell more units than a $62,000 Shelby let me know where that fantasyland is so I can visit you.

 

You seem to think the dealer needs you to buy the vehicle!

 

I agree with this wholehartedly. To wit, someone in the print media said "6500 only Mach 1s" in 2003, which turned out to be WRONG-O! Someone thought they heard something from an official Ford source, printed it up, and then we had a 2004 model run. It is quite possible that information flows but then later changes, and by the time print media is out, it's invalid.

And regarding ADMs, I remember when they were on PT Cruisers

 

So if I pay MSRP and the dealer makes $7,500 profit on one vehicle sold on the lot the dealer is buying me the vehicle lol? Are you serious? Even if I paid invoice he still would be making at least $3,750 on one vehicle. That is a healthy profit for a couple of hours of transaction. Yes dealer's greed with ADM's and consumer price gouging hurt the consumer and Ford equally, as well as making it far less likely for repeat business at a dealership that has ADM's hurting the dealer in the long run as well.

 

Here's a crazy idea. Tell the dealer that if they want YOU to buy the car, then they will have to drop their ADM. If they don't want YOU to buy it, and expect someone else will, then it is their sale to lose. IMO, I bet dealer's don't much mind having a 2013 Shelby sitting in their showroom for a while, because they might be the only dealer in their area with an allocation, or might not get another one for a while. These cars bring in potentional customers sometimes just wanting to see a GT500, but then get snagged by a salesman who is trained to sell cars, and they might just sell a used Fucus but it is still a sale! It is like an attraction at the Mall, just get people in the doors and they end up buying something. So, wait til excitement dies down, or there is enough competition in the area that you can play dealers against each other. I'm not in sales, I'm not a brilliant guy, I am a blue collar firefighter and this stuff seems common sense to me. Stop whining about price and wait, or buy a cheaper car. Anyone who is going to complain 4 years later about paying too much for their car has no one to blame but themselves. Its called a lesson learned.

 

What I mean is the dealers that have these with ADM are not going to go bust if the car sits for awhile. 95% of their business is made by the other vehicles they sell. Are those nice profits you're talking about, yes, but it probably doesn't matter to them since the business isn't riding on that one sale. They can go fish, throw it in the water and see if someone bites. They're probably in no big hurry.

 

And in the end 16,834 Mach 1's were produced which once again more than proves my point with the limited production hysteria that comes out of nowhere. Quote me one car magazine article where they misqouted an overproduction of vehicles. l remember the 2 year limited run of the GT500 from 2007 to 2008. The $25,000 ADM's paid for them, the $5,000 ADM's paid the the 2005 Mustang GT. At the end of the day I would love to hear from one of those guys that was happy with his or her decision in retrospect.