KenB

I'm entitled to my opinion like anyone else. I'm an ethusiast first and a shop owner second.

The pics look good but I prefer headers that are made from a single tube on the primaries. Those are welded.

Faber

I believe the american racing ones are welded also. I will dig up a pic. You are entitled to your opinion, I am not disputing your right to an opinion, but I just felt like you were laying the guilt on a little thick about the market, and playing a little too much violin for some of the companies that obviously could/would not compete.

I just look for the biggest value for my hard earned dollar. There is a company up in phoenix about 100 miles from me that hand build headers, and has a set for about $300 but they are steel, thin walled, and wont be in one piece in 3 years. That is a great price but the value is not there. Then you have the expensive tubes that are basically exactly the same as these OBX headers at almost four times the price when you consider what is included in this kit. that is great quality, but again not a good value.

These OBX headers hit the spot for me, so I want to make sure everybody knows about them.

So what happens whan an American company starts buying OBX stainless headers on a subcontract basis, has them branded with their own tag, and then sells them for $1200.00 claiming they are made in the USA? They will get snapped right up, thats what...

BTW tried a magnet and it didn't stick. posting closeups in a few minutes...

rocket88

subscribing

n8rfastback

these look like a good deal to me....

i would reather spend 300 than 1300 any day.

even if i only got 5 years out of these, 300 would still be worth it.
i could live with that.

im anxious to see some dyno numbers and photos of these in the car

Faber

Here are some pics. Notice the welds are very nice, The walls of the tubes are thick, the cnc'd flanges are nice and perfectly flat. At the point where the primaries come into the collector there is a nicely fabricated spike to avoid eddys in the airflow. the high flow cats are actually just a small race muffler, so no chance of the cat coming apart and blowing up your motor.

I would buy these headers all week long and twice on sundays. Cheap chinese junk my a**...

hiznherponies

Not to be a butt about it, but aren't step headers made from more than one piece of pipe and then welded together, Ken? I've seen and used a CNC tube bender and sometimes, even if you can bend it, its not always the best solution. I've also seen custom headers made by hand, piece by piece, and tig-welded from the flange to the collector by hand, and they look and perform as well, if not better than a pre-made piece. Just b/c something costs alot doesn't always mean its the best value, in fact, if more competition is in the marketplace, then it causes the manufacturers to find lower cost methods to keep up with the competition and who benefits this? The consumers!! And possibly the manufacturers by coming up with better, lower-cost technology. When these cars first came out, I could understand why some parts were so expensive, but now, 4 years later, I don't see how some of these companies can charge what they do. I'm not made of money, and even though I'm a UAW autoworker, my '66 has a number of off-shore repro parts on it (some parts have to be, unless you buy N.O.S.!!) plus, I know that alot of the parts on this car O.E.M. are source from outside the U.S. so, when I buy parts, I look for the best value. Like the CAI that Ken has come up with, its a great piece, but for me, is it worth the money? Well, I think it is, but the JLT is less expensive and it American made too, so which am i going to buy? Not sure yet, gotta see if Ken's tune is comparable to Doug's for the auto. or if he releases the air transfer function so Doug can use his tunes with Ken's piece. Anyway, these headers are going on my car, when I can afford them!! And if someone can prove with real-world testing that these are inferior, I'll still buy them, even though this car will be mine forever!!

hiznherponies

Oh, and Faber, thanks for the great Pictures!!

n00bstang

sounds awesome.

"even if i only got 5 years out of these, 300 would still be worth it.
i could live with that."
they will last you a lifetime. there's a lifetime warranty on it.

can't wait to see the dyno.

70MACH1OWNER

Hey Faber,
I should be the last guy on these forums that thinks those China made headers are a good deal. You see I am a plant manager of a tool and die shop and have 32 years experience of building automotive dies and fixtures. It doesn't take a trained eye like mine to see those OBX headers are not junk. I can see from your pictures that at least the outlet of the header is 16 ga. or heavier. I can also tell the flanges are 3/8 thick as advertised. In addition...who ever welded those is good. I will be the first to admit that we should always buy American..but the truth of the matter is most of our tooling work is going offshore and they are getting better every day. Thanks for the pictures. I will have to look at these a little harder. While I cannot say whether they fit worth a darn or not I can tell you that they are not just thrown together either. And BTW, I only see 1 weld in a primary tube the other are 1 piece of tubing. And I will bet that these are copied from a US manufacturer's headers. That is what the Chinese do. So if there is an issue with them it probably exists with the one it was copied from also.
Ohh... here is a challenge for Ken B. and CR @ Tillman. Since one of you owns his own performance shop and the other seems to have alot of pull at his shop. Instead of posting what you think and suggest is inferior about these OBX headers why not purchase a set yourselves. You can measure wall thickness of the tubing...flange thickness...quaility of the welds... and how well they fit during an install. Your opinions would have alot more credibility if you did this then just offer all the negative unfounded opinions. Just a thought.
Scott

KenB

I have to admit, those close up pics do look nice. I said that a 1 piece tube is what I prefer. I didn't say it was better. We can argue that forever. The reason I prefer a 1 piece tube is a weld is a possible failure point. And on a street car, this is very important due to the use and environments they go through.

I will be releasing the transfer function. I'm getting one worked up on a flow bench to verify the one I created on the dyno.


70MACH1OWNER,

I really haven't questioned the quality of the headers. It's more about buying Chinese rip offs. When you see intakes every day that were obviously cast right off an American made manifold, it gets old. Us AMERICANS did all the R&D, then someone who has slave labor(might as well be) comes in and undercuts the people that really do the work to get these products to market. That can be intakes, headers, whatever. What happens when these ripoff products (whether they are good or bad) put the AMERICAN companies out of business? Do you think they will come up with welll designed products for our American V8 cars if they have no one to copy from?

I'll be the first to admit I have a skewed viewpoint being in the business but that doesn't mean I shouldn't voice my opinion.

Boltzman

I agree with everyones point of view. No one wants to see American work taken over by foreigners and everyone wants a good deal

YaoNYC

looks amazing and i guess even if AR and kooks are better...are they better by 400% as shown in their pricing?

im not doubting on AR or KOOKS, im just saying that maybe these are 80-90% as good and produce good results.

how bout this...are the construction of these any worse than the stock short headers???

please show some dyno results. im so curious on what that will bring to the table!

tom281

I agree with both sides....... I really do. I think Ken is a stand-up guy and I have no problem with Tillman either. I don't think either one of them make a killing on selling headers; in fact, what they do make they certainly earn and deserve to keep.

However I do think that the original manufacturer (Kooks, AR, Bassani, etc.) are certainly making more than necessary on these items. You can only cut costs on 1) material and 2) processing and 3) margin. If material is comparable, rule that one out. Sure overseas labor has a huge advantage in wage cost, however some of that is offset in shipping costs. But still I think you'd find that labor (processing) costs are less than 30% of the total sales cost. That leaves alot of room in this particular case for margin.

Look at Steeda as an example- last year I wanted to buy their 18" wheels at regular pricing of $399 each. I called Brenspeed and they had little room to wiggle on pricing. I called Steeda direct and they told me they were gonna have a special in the spring (which they did) at $299 each. Now, they're at $199 each and have been for several weeks. And you know that they're still making something on them at $199. So why sell them at $399 originally? To make more money.

Anyway, back on topic- good luck to all parties.

YaoNYC

oh definitely KenB and tillman are rock solid from all my experiences and talking with them.

its not them making the killing...its AR and KOOKS and such. i know retail mark up is usually very small margin.

i feel if these are good perhaps, kenb and tillman may consider selling them

i would rather buy from them if they include a tune for it

70MACH1OWNER

Hey Ken,
Nobody knows better than me what the Chinese knock off's have done to the manufacturing base of this country. I am 53 and am wondering if I can make it to my retirement in the tool and die trade in this country. Sad to say though most people will not spend 3 times as much for something produced in this country anymore. It is always about price. I was not knocking on you guys. But all I am saying is put up $500 bucks...do your homework...and than post a totally informed opinion with documentation to back up your opinion. My post wasn't a bash at all. I just promote being totally open minded. That's all. Ohh.. for what is worth our own US navy buys the torpedos for our submarines from China also. My wife works for the government contractor that handles that contract. Isn't that a kick in the gut!!
Scott

Faber

AMEN!

btw they fit PERFECTLY! I did not have to remove the steering column. I replaced the motor mounts just because I was in there, but they clear the steering column just fine.

n8rfastback

i have the jlt II intake and sct combo from brenspeed....

with that in mind, how would i install tubes and get new tunes???

just in case i decide to get a set of headers in the future.

n8rfastback

how long did this install take???

level of difficulty?

SlamMan02

Call up Brent and let him know you will be needed your tune adjusted for Headers, and there might be a small cost involved...but Ive seen many people just send the tune for free

Difficulty is not for beginners thats for sure. Look up the American Racing Header install Journal for a guide.

n8rfastback

i dont foresee any problems in the future.... i have done several header installs and a couple tranny swaps, just wondering how tough these are.

thanks for the info. i will have to get a hold of brenspeed and ask when i get a pair of headers