Brake upgrades for the track after reviews
12/22/11, 11:58 AM
#381
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Wow Shaun what a response! Are different OPINIONS not allowed to be expressed here? Or is it one-size-fits all, and if you don’t like the opinion try to just castigate the poster with acrimonious comments? I have “first-hand” knowledge of how I drive my car. And I shared that firsthand knowledge with others who may be seeking advice in a similar operating regime.
You claim in your avatar you are “the STIG” and in your post #72 “I am glad that I go to the track now with the team, the extra hands make everything go so much faster”. Not everyone on this Forum can rise to that level of self acclimation or have a team working for/with them. Many of us are novice owners who bought into the dream of a Racecar with a License Plate and are learning to drive this highly capable vehicle without your STIG level of experience. (Some may not even know what that means) So while your pad/rotor opinions have equal merit, they may selectively apply.
Pages 36 and 37 of the Boss owner’s manual supplement covers recommendations by Ford Motor Company to prepare the Boss vehicle for track use. Nowhere does it state or recommend using a dedicated brake pad (or rotor/pad) for track use.
And I very much (spoken as honestly as possible) appreciate the feedback both you and Jason provide. You have not commented in this tread for over 9 months now while 267 comments have been made during your absence. I did not see any negative responses (flak) to your comments, and my experience opinions certainly were not directed at anything you specifically said all those months ago. I am sorry if you took it that way and feel like you are being “driven” away from this Forum. The more opinions shared the more balanced the information for all.
Again although probably a good idea, the Ford Boss supplement does not specifically make this statement and certainly they are very aware of what constitutes a “truely (sic) safe solution”. My comments on this topic are finished. Owners are free to assess and choose what they want based on their particular needs.
12/22/11, 12:26 PM
#382
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I really dont know what your attitude problem is but it sure isnt productive. You made this personal, instead of discussing the merits of either "opinion" you make personal attacks commenting on Stig etc.
The way I went from a novice to a more advanded user and later employeed in the industry is because I listened to those with more experience and learned. Being open minded is a really good thing, hell you might even learn a thing or two.......
Opinions are great, but when someone's "opinion" runs in the opposite direction of saftey there is a point where an opinion is wrong.
If you think the Boss suppliment guide is the word of God, thats fine, good luck. (there are 50 million reasons why that a manual cant tell you to change parts and track the car. If it did FoMoCo did they would have to test and certify every modification for compatiblity or face legal liability. They also cant tell you to go to the track and run flat out for the same reason).
If you dont belive me (which is fine) why dont you call the Ford Racing tech line and ask their formal recomendations to tracking your Boss properly and safely? The answers will suprise you.
Enjoy your DTC-30's, your opinions and your attitude problem. Have a good day and a safe holiday
The way I went from a novice to a more advanded user and later employeed in the industry is because I listened to those with more experience and learned. Being open minded is a really good thing, hell you might even learn a thing or two.......
Opinions are great, but when someone's "opinion" runs in the opposite direction of saftey there is a point where an opinion is wrong.
If you think the Boss suppliment guide is the word of God, thats fine, good luck. (there are 50 million reasons why that a manual cant tell you to change parts and track the car. If it did FoMoCo did they would have to test and certify every modification for compatiblity or face legal liability. They also cant tell you to go to the track and run flat out for the same reason).
If you dont belive me (which is fine) why dont you call the Ford Racing tech line and ask their formal recomendations to tracking your Boss properly and safely? The answers will suprise you.
Enjoy your DTC-30's, your opinions and your attitude problem. Have a good day and a safe holiday
Last edited by Stinger1982; 12/22/11 at 12:27 PM.
12/22/11, 12:32 PM
#383
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As far as adjusting my braking......that would mean going slower.....can't do it.
12/22/11, 12:34 PM
#384
FWIW, if you want the best braking performance, you need dedicated track rotors and pads. That's the only way the friction material is going to interact properly. Re-bedding pads on rotors used with other pads is possible, but not optimal.
Ford's manuals are stated the way they are to get the best performance out of what they gave you from the factory, which is always a compromise between performance, cost, and the needs of the guy that will only drive to car shows needing brakes that make no noise whatsoever, and the track driver that wants to car to stop reasonably well from the factory. The factory setup is a great blend of performance for what it is, but it's not the last word.
I run DTC70s and separate track rotors up front for every event. It takes less than an hour to swap the pads and rotors over.
DTC30s are designed for dirt-track cars, I'm not sure why Hawk is recommending them for heavy cars like ours with high friction/traction levels; but the real-world feedback is that they aren't working.
Ford's manuals are stated the way they are to get the best performance out of what they gave you from the factory, which is always a compromise between performance, cost, and the needs of the guy that will only drive to car shows needing brakes that make no noise whatsoever, and the track driver that wants to car to stop reasonably well from the factory. The factory setup is a great blend of performance for what it is, but it's not the last word.
I run DTC70s and separate track rotors up front for every event. It takes less than an hour to swap the pads and rotors over.
DTC30s are designed for dirt-track cars, I'm not sure why Hawk is recommending them for heavy cars like ours with high friction/traction levels; but the real-world feedback is that they aren't working.
12/22/11, 12:39 PM
#385
You'd be surprised that you might actually pick up time with a longer, lighter brake.
12/22/11, 12:46 PM
#386
Someone explain this for me: what does length of time and number of comments between posts have to do with anything?
The way I see this, someone presented an idea, but others with specialized knowledge in said area are suggesting it's a bad idea, and present a "better" solution. You then negate their thoughts, belittle them, and go back to your original idea. Seems a bit close-minded, no?
Shaun, Jason, and several others in this thread "get it". You can't really argue with physics and science. Those DTC30's might work great for now, but don't come on here complaining if they fail from repeated use and you put your car into the wall/gravel trap/etc. While the opinions on this forum are not the word of God, taking the time to decipher who has a clue and who doesn't are important. Not everything on the Internet you read is true.
The way I see this, someone presented an idea, but others with specialized knowledge in said area are suggesting it's a bad idea, and present a "better" solution. You then negate their thoughts, belittle them, and go back to your original idea. Seems a bit close-minded, no?
Shaun, Jason, and several others in this thread "get it". You can't really argue with physics and science. Those DTC30's might work great for now, but don't come on here complaining if they fail from repeated use and you put your car into the wall/gravel trap/etc. While the opinions on this forum are not the word of God, taking the time to decipher who has a clue and who doesn't are important. Not everything on the Internet you read is true.
12/22/11, 01:05 PM
#387
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hire a Pro Coach for a day and see what he does. A friend drove my M3 at RA as his GT3RS was down for a clutch. He managed something I had never done which was boil RBF600 going into 10a. After riding with him I got him to adj his braking technique he was faster and didn't boil fluid again. I also am a fan of if you are going to track your car get full race pads and don't mess around with anything less. I also run race pads on the street with 0 issues except a lot of dust
Peter
12/22/11, 01:09 PM
#388
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Adj braking doesn't necessarily mean going slower. hire a Pro Coach for a day and see what he does. A friend drove my M3 at RA as his GT3RS was down for a clutch. He managed something I had never done which was boil RBF600 going into 10a. After riding with him I got him to adj his braking technique he was faster and didn't boil fluid again.
hire a Pro Coach for a day and see what he does. A friend drove my M3 at RA as his GT3RS was down for a clutch. He managed something I had never done which was boil RBF600 going into 10a. After riding with him I got him to adj his braking technique he was faster and didn't boil fluid again.
12/22/11, 01:24 PM
#390
a
12/22/11, 01:25 PM
#391
12/22/11, 01:40 PM
#393
Interesting mental image there...
12/22/11, 02:25 PM
#394
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Originally Posted by OLOABoss
Adj braking doesn't necessarily mean going slower.
hire a Pro Coach for a day and see what he does. A friend drove my M3 at RA as his GT3RS was down for a clutch. He managed something I had never done which was boil RBF600 going into 10a. After riding with him I got him to adj his braking technique he was faster and didn't boil fluid again.I also am a fan of if you are going to track your car get full race pads and don't mess around with anything less. I also run race pads on the street with 0 issues except a lot of dust
Peter
12/22/11, 02:47 PM
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I think the reason this has become a somewhat heated topic is there are a few opposing (or at least competing) principles people seem to be considering: cost and safety.
The experienced track rats on here know what it's like when the pedal goes to the floor, and there's a wall ahead. Not fun, to watch or be a part of. Cars that are supposedly designed to take track abuse (read: certain 350Zs) have been known to have very sudden brake failure on factory components on the track, and people are lucky to walk away from the resultant crashes.
Not saying it's already happened, but the potential is there for cars like the Boss as well, cars that can go very fast as delivered from the maker, but in the right hands (or even wrong hands), they can easily outperform certain stock components, like the brakes (or radiator, etc etc).
So for those that have seen brake failure happen (whatever the source, boiled fluid, pad temp exceeded, cracked rotors, etc) or even worse experienced it, they never want to see or experience it again, so will plead or scold or cajole whoever they can to not take these things for granted.
On the other hand, there are those out there that are just wanting to have a little track fun here and there, and can't imagine pushing themselves or their cars hard enough to need the top of the line pad or rotor or whatever, and are looking to not break the bank on their track excursions.
So if you wanna tick off one camp, ask how many times those more expensive brake pads have put a new trophy on the shelf or plaque on the wall.
Or, ask the other guys how much they'd be willing to pay so that their daughter's don't have to go to daddy's funeral.
OR, ask both groups why they're not wearing full fire suits, using HANS devices, and have halo seats in every car they track...
Not that I'm promoting that at all...
Just saying it's just a matter of perspective, and shouldn't be construed as personal attacks if you don't fall into that same perspective. It's your life, your car, use it (or lose it) as you like.
The experienced track rats on here know what it's like when the pedal goes to the floor, and there's a wall ahead. Not fun, to watch or be a part of. Cars that are supposedly designed to take track abuse (read: certain 350Zs) have been known to have very sudden brake failure on factory components on the track, and people are lucky to walk away from the resultant crashes.
Not saying it's already happened, but the potential is there for cars like the Boss as well, cars that can go very fast as delivered from the maker, but in the right hands (or even wrong hands), they can easily outperform certain stock components, like the brakes (or radiator, etc etc).
So for those that have seen brake failure happen (whatever the source, boiled fluid, pad temp exceeded, cracked rotors, etc) or even worse experienced it, they never want to see or experience it again, so will plead or scold or cajole whoever they can to not take these things for granted.
On the other hand, there are those out there that are just wanting to have a little track fun here and there, and can't imagine pushing themselves or their cars hard enough to need the top of the line pad or rotor or whatever, and are looking to not break the bank on their track excursions.
So if you wanna tick off one camp, ask how many times those more expensive brake pads have put a new trophy on the shelf or plaque on the wall.
Or, ask the other guys how much they'd be willing to pay so that their daughter's don't have to go to daddy's funeral.
OR, ask both groups why they're not wearing full fire suits, using HANS devices, and have halo seats in every car they track...
Not that I'm promoting that at all...
Just saying it's just a matter of perspective, and shouldn't be construed as personal attacks if you don't fall into that same perspective. It's your life, your car, use it (or lose it) as you like.
12/22/11, 03:42 PM
#396
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I think the reason this has become a somewhat heated topic is there are a few opposing (or at least competing) principles people seem to be considering: cost and safety.
The experienced track rats on here know what it's like when the pedal goes to the floor, and there's a wall ahead. Not fun, to watch or be a part of. Cars that are supposedly designed to take track abuse (read: certain 350Zs) have been known to have very sudden brake failure on factory components on the track, and people are lucky to walk away from the resultant crashes.
Not saying it's already happened, but the potential is there for cars like the Boss as well, cars that can go very fast as delivered from the maker, but in the right hands (or even wrong hands), they can easily outperform certain stock components, like the brakes (or radiator, etc etc).
So for those that have seen brake failure happen (whatever the source, boiled fluid, pad temp exceeded, cracked rotors, etc) or even worse experienced it, they never want to see or experience it again, so will plead or scold or cajole whoever they can to not take these things for granted.
On the other hand, there are those out there that are just wanting to have a little track fun here and there, and can't imagine pushing themselves or their cars hard enough to need the top of the line pad or rotor or whatever, and are looking to not break the bank on their track excursions.
So if you wanna tick off one camp, ask how many times those more expensive brake pads have put a new trophy on the shelf or plaque on the wall.
Or, ask the other guys how much they'd be willing to pay so that their daughter's don't have to go to daddy's funeral.
OR, ask both groups why they're not wearing full fire suits, using HANS devices, and have halo seats in every car they track...
Not that I'm promoting that at all...
Just saying it's just a matter of perspective, and shouldn't be construed as personal attacks if you don't fall into that same perspective. It's your life, your car, use it (or lose it) as you like.
The experienced track rats on here know what it's like when the pedal goes to the floor, and there's a wall ahead. Not fun, to watch or be a part of. Cars that are supposedly designed to take track abuse (read: certain 350Zs) have been known to have very sudden brake failure on factory components on the track, and people are lucky to walk away from the resultant crashes.
Not saying it's already happened, but the potential is there for cars like the Boss as well, cars that can go very fast as delivered from the maker, but in the right hands (or even wrong hands), they can easily outperform certain stock components, like the brakes (or radiator, etc etc).
So for those that have seen brake failure happen (whatever the source, boiled fluid, pad temp exceeded, cracked rotors, etc) or even worse experienced it, they never want to see or experience it again, so will plead or scold or cajole whoever they can to not take these things for granted.
On the other hand, there are those out there that are just wanting to have a little track fun here and there, and can't imagine pushing themselves or their cars hard enough to need the top of the line pad or rotor or whatever, and are looking to not break the bank on their track excursions.
So if you wanna tick off one camp, ask how many times those more expensive brake pads have put a new trophy on the shelf or plaque on the wall.
Or, ask the other guys how much they'd be willing to pay so that their daughter's don't have to go to daddy's funeral.
OR, ask both groups why they're not wearing full fire suits, using HANS devices, and have halo seats in every car they track...
Not that I'm promoting that at all...
Just saying it's just a matter of perspective, and shouldn't be construed as personal attacks if you don't fall into that same perspective. It's your life, your car, use it (or lose it) as you like.
Great way to explain it, very constructive
Because there has been sarcasim in this thread I want to point out I mean that very seriously this is a great post.
12/22/11, 04:04 PM
#397
12/22/11, 04:06 PM
#398
12/22/11, 05:35 PM
#399
12/22/11, 06:50 PM
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