Boss 302 vs Camaro ZL-1 in Motor Trend
1/30/12, 04:40 PM
#181
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It`s no different with sportbikes, they can praise a sportbike saying it had the best handling, best power and brakes and then the same bike 6 months down the road against the newest from another brand will say the same bikes doesn`t feel as good at the track, power has dips and brakes feel wooden. Your only on top until the newest kid on the block comes along, that`s just the way it is.
Think about it.. the competition isn`t gonna bench mark and come out with a slower less capable model. If the ZL1 is all that then so be it, your only on top for limited time. I`m sure the 13 Gt500 will wipe the floor with the boss on the track and they would say the boss feels dated against it.
Think about it.. the competition isn`t gonna bench mark and come out with a slower less capable model. If the ZL1 is all that then so be it, your only on top for limited time. I`m sure the 13 Gt500 will wipe the floor with the boss on the track and they would say the boss feels dated against it.
2/1/12, 10:15 PM
#182
Cobra Member
The March newstand issue of Motor Trend has a red ZL1 on the cover with the phrase ZL1 TELLS BOSS:SHOVE IT ! The subsriber March issue has a picture of a red 2013 Fusion with much smaller letters saying ZL1 tells boss:shove it ! Motor Trend is playing the ZL1 card to the max.
Last edited by 2 Go Snake; 2/1/12 at 10:18 PM.
2/1/12, 11:50 PM
#183
That's OK, Ford will have it's retribution when the '13 GT500 hits the streets.
2/2/12, 06:39 AM
#185
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The March newstand issue of Motor Trend has a red ZL1 on the cover with the phrase ZL1 TELLS BOSS:SHOVE IT ! The subsriber March issue has a picture of a red 2013 Fusion with much smaller letters saying ZL1 tells boss:shove it ! Motor Trend is playing the ZL1 card to the max.
2/2/12, 06:24 PM
#186
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"Chevrolet was not about to let Ford run away with this new market. Within two years of the Mustang's launch, GM had its own ponycar headed to showrooms and eventually racetracks. The Camaro was bigger and heavier and had more powerfulengine options than the lithe Ford. The trend of bigger and faster would continue until the gas crunch of the '70s, and, even then, the quest for power continued as expectations for comfort and convenience were rising."
Translates to being able to see whatthe other guy did, waited 2-1/2 years and produced something a little bit better.
"
Jump forward to more recent events. The Mustang has remained in continuous production, while the Camaro took a little time off to regroup in the early part of this century. The return of GM's ponycar for 2010 saw the gap widen even more with Chevy's big engine coming in at 6.2 liters while the Mustang GT's displaced a smallish 4.6 liters. The Camaro was also bigger and heavier than the Mustang by a considerable margin. It was a little more comfortable, and hidden beneath the retro-nostalgic body panels was an independent rear suspension."
Translates to GM hurting for money because Camaro sales sucked and still needting a bigger motor to compete. More comfortable?....opinion.......can't used be a widebrushed statement.
"For 2012, Chevy aims to redefine the ponycar completely in one electronically optimized fell swoop. The 2012 Chevrolet Camaro ZL1 takes the once-simple formula for all-American performance and reworks it into a recipe for a modern cyborg warhorse. Literally leaning on suspension technology originally developed for Cadillacs and Corvettes, the Camaro achieves better-than-Boss levels of handling with the highway ride quality of a CTS-V. The active exhaust system sounds nearly as quiet as a familysedan at part throttle, but opens up its big, angry pipes when you stand on it. Like the ZL1, the 2012 Ford Mustang Boss 302 Laguna Seca does allow for ride quality and handling adjustment, but the big difference is the Camaro is adjusted by a smarter-and-faster-than-you computer -- different performance modes are summoned with an index finger through a console-mounted button -- while the Mustang is dialed in using a screwdriver and your spare time."
Translates to Camaro frankensteining parts from its other cars to make another....although more sophisticated, much more exspensive.
"The Boss requires a trip to the pit lane to adjust its damping rates. The process isn't terribly involved, but the rears do require removing trim pieces for access. Ford recommended using a setting of 5 or full stiff, both front and rear. On the smooth sections of the track, the stiff damping worked fairly well for the Boss, delivering slight understeer in braking and neutral throttle. When picking up the throttle, the live-axle was surprisingly planted, but still allowed a bit of right-foot steering."
Translates to yes needing to pull over...........but I have adjust mine by just pulling back on the panel.......no removal........small price to pay rather than a super expensive system that if fails what do you do?........i can change a shock in minutes.
"The ZL1 doesn't transition like the Boss; it seems to have a much higher moment of inertia. Ham-footing the throttle in the Camaro, which provides nearly 140 horsepower more than the Mustang, will result in more sideways action but the horseplay is still very controllable. It is also worth noting that flooring the Camaro means dealing with almost 140 horsepower more than the Mustang.....
We expected the biggest gap in the two cars' lap times to come from the power discrepancy. The Boss is making do with a mere 444 horsepower and 380 lb-ft from its naturally aspirated 5.0-liter V-8. The ZL1 humiliates the 302's spec sheet by cranking out 580 horsepower and a staggering 556 lb-ft of torque from all 6.2 liters of supercharged V-8. The Camaro has to move 7.0 lb/hp while the Mustang is dealing with 8.2. All these things should add up to the Camaro showing the Mustang its taillights with ease and great frequency. In quarter-mile testing, the Camaro ran through in 12.1 seconds at 117 mph, rather impressive, but the Mustang was only three-tenths of a second and 3 mph behind. Sure, the Camaro has 400 pounds on the Mustang, but we still expected more of a gap."
Translation?.........We barely beat the Boss that has less horsepower (how many times does it need to be mentioned?).......would that be a bragging point?
"The Camaro clearly came out on top of this fight. Although the Boss 302 is probably the best Mustang ever built, it just feels and performs like it's a generation behind. Randy summed it up: "The Mustang Boss 302 Laguna Seca was my favorite American musclecar -- until today." It isn't the lack of power; it isn't the lack of amenities. It's simply a lack of technology. The Camaro is the benchmark for a new class of vehicle. Call it the Power Pony, the Warhorse -- the name isn't important. What is important is ZL1's on-demand attitude. Supercar levels of performance, with the daily driving comfort of a GT, wrapped in a nostalgic package. I bet Lee saw this one coming, too"
Translates to : Camaro disected a car built a year ago and one upped it barely with a car that costs more.
GOD GM SUX and so does motor trend. kiss A$$es
Well said! Instead of GM patting itself on the back (and MT kissing up), it should more reevaluate why it needs superchargers and more cubic inches to 'nose' out a car that is naturally aspirated (hurrah for old school). Back in the day, one would be embarrased to make this comparison, not feature it as an accomplishemt. Ford manufactured horsepower through powerplant technology. GM made theirs with a bolt-on supercharger. Really? Do they (GM and MT) not realize how ludircous it sounds that the supercharged (bigger engined) Camaro ZL1 'barely' beat a Boss 302? It is no wonder that Pobst leaned toward the ZL1 based on the technological advantage, because in reality, it was the only advantage it could be proud of. And wait, shouldn't you only pull the technology card when it is clear that it provided a distinct advantage, as when the Japanese (ok, I will include some European engineering too) started making 4-cylinder cars with tech (super- or turbochargers, gearing, etc.) that could hang with or beat American V8s? Now that is what was meant by a technological advantage (getting more from less)! That is, as opposed to 'hey, let's put a lot of Corvette and Cadillac tech on our big-cubed small block, throw in a supercharger, and see if we can beat a Ford engineered 302 that is a natural breather (and oh yeah, don't forget our independent rearend suspension, and can we do launch control? The Boss has launch control!). At the end of the day, GM and MT saying "wow, we sure showed them!" is shameful. The Boss is a driver's car that was intended to allow the driver to find his/her limits, but it sounds like the ZL-1 makes everyone think they're a driver.
Last edited by CEO_five_0; 2/2/12 at 08:51 PM.
2/2/12, 10:57 PM
#187
Shelby GT350 Member
Originally Posted by ShaneM
i'm not biased against anyone, i think the zl1 is cool and cant wait to see one on the track. this particular mt review just doesn't sit right with me. thinking a car hung the moon one week and then the next suddenly its not controllable to the point that a pro cant go over curbs on the track seems off to me as does not even setting the suspension per mfg recommendations in a review that the mag had to know would be a sparking point to the enthusiast crowd. i think had the results been different and the camaro boys found out that Mt didn't use the sport setting on the ZL1 suspension they would feel the same way. FWIW i meant that last comment a bit tounge in cheek, i guess it needed a
or a 
here is what i do know though. ive been asking my gm contact since the ZL1 was unveiled to be sure and keep me on the list for a review car. if/when they come through one of my texas boss pals needs to bring a stock Boss out to ECR and I'll find out for myself which is fastest on that track with me behind the wheel in a real world track session!
Back to topic. I still am unsure why the comparison was to the Boss. Just because it was the "track oriented" car? I do think the Boss was built with a specific crowd of enthusiast in mind and that kind of enthusiast wouldn't necessarily be in the market for a car like the ZL1 anyway. I still see this cross shopped with the GT500 not any other. Not even an SRT8 unless they actually produced that SRT10 version.
2/3/12, 09:06 AM
#188
Back to topic. I still am unsure why the comparison was to the Boss. Just because it was the "track oriented" car? I do think the Boss was built with a specific crowd of enthusiast in mind and that kind of enthusiast wouldn't necessarily be in the market for a car like the ZL1 anyway. I still see this cross shopped with the GT500 not any other. Not even an SRT8 unless they actually produced that SRT10 version.
2/4/12, 07:59 AM
#189
Legacy TMS Member
Back to topic. I still am unsure why the comparison was to the Boss. Just because it was the "track oriented" car? I do think the Boss was built with a specific crowd of enthusiast in mind and that kind of enthusiast wouldn't necessarily be in the market for a car like the ZL1 anyway. I still see this cross shopped with the GT500 not any other. Not even an SRT8 unless they actually produced that SRT10 version.
IMO, I think the Boss - ZL1 showdown was there to emphasize the handling capabilities of the ZL1. The Boss handily beats the GT500 in this catagory. In doing so GM is saying; "hey look, buy one car and you have the best attributes of two Mustang, you dont have to choose".
Last edited by bob; 2/4/12 at 08:01 AM.
2/4/12, 10:16 AM
#190
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The Boss is for the guy/gal who wants the N/A engine...........to go to the track
I don't care if the GT500/ZL1 is faster I don't think they will live in the Florida summer heat...........on track.
I've seen the supercharged cars on track since '03 and they all ran into heat related problems at one time or another.
Last edited by GT_350; 2/4/12 at 10:18 AM.
2/4/12, 11:14 PM
#191
I think its good that The ZL 1 has upped the ante, it is a win for all muscle car fans. No doubt the new Shelby will have a response that will put Chevy back to work to beat it. How can that not be good?!
Oh btw I read the new Car & Drivers test results of the ZL 1 and I can't help but report that I have a time slip with my stock Boss that beats their 1/4 mile et.
12.2 to a 12.3.
Just Sayin.....
If I happen to come across the venerable ZL 1 at a stop light, dude better be good or he'll be checkin out my tail lights!!
Oh btw I read the new Car & Drivers test results of the ZL 1 and I can't help but report that I have a time slip with my stock Boss that beats their 1/4 mile et.
12.2 to a 12.3.
Just Sayin.....
If I happen to come across the venerable ZL 1 at a stop light, dude better be good or he'll be checkin out my tail lights!!
2/5/12, 03:53 AM
#192
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I think its good that The ZL 1 has upped the ante, it is a win for all muscle car fans. No doubt the new Shelby will have a response that will put Chevy back to work to beat it. How can that not be good?!
Oh btw I read the new Car & Drivers test results of the ZL 1 and I can't help but report that I have a time slip with my stock Boss that beats their 1/4 mile et.
12.2 to a 12.3.
Just Sayin.....
If I happen to come across the venerable ZL 1 at a stop light, dude better be good or he'll be checkin out my tail lights!!
Oh btw I read the new Car & Drivers test results of the ZL 1 and I can't help but report that I have a time slip with my stock Boss that beats their 1/4 mile et.
12.2 to a 12.3.
Just Sayin.....
If I happen to come across the venerable ZL 1 at a stop light, dude better be good or he'll be checkin out my tail lights!!
2/6/12, 02:23 AM
#193
Legacy TMS Member
Thats an FI car's achillies heel for sure, I can see them running into heat soak problems just like the GT500 suffers from now. Still for the average guy not looking to track thier car they are seeing one Camaro covering both segments at least on paper.
2/6/12, 09:59 AM
#194
Mach 1 Member
im pretty sure i read something to this sort in one of the responses but if something breaks on the zl1 suspension, i would assume that it would cost more for it to be fixed and also the downtime would probably be greater than replacing some basic parts as in the boss. just because a car has all the tech stuff on it doesnt exactly make it the best choice out there...
2/6/12, 10:33 AM
#195
im pretty sure i read something to this sort in one of the responses but if something breaks on the zl1 suspension, i would assume that it would cost more for it to be fixed and also the downtime would probably be greater than replacing some basic parts as in the boss. just because a car has all the tech stuff on it doesnt exactly make it the best choice out there...
2/6/12, 03:20 PM
#197
Cobra R Member
3/8/12, 10:02 AM
#199
Shelby GT350 Member
Originally Posted by Ethanjbeau
Not sure if this video has been posted yet.
Video Link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OE4AH4DZtEI&feature=g-u&context=G240d886FUAAAAAAAAAA
Motortrend just put it on youtube this morning.
Video Link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OE4AH4DZtEI&feature=g-u&context=G240d886FUAAAAAAAAAA
Motortrend just put it on youtube this morning.
3/8/12, 11:31 AM
#200
The stock pads are not adequate for track use, I don't care what any of the journalists that took one or two laps around Laguna Seca said when the car was first released.