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10/11/10, 01:50 PM
#141
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1. "...new age Mustang"
The '04 Mustang was "contemporary" for its day. As was the defunct Gaymaro and the Fireturd. For that matter, so was the '04 T-bird, the GTO, and in fact all Pontiacs. What did that get them? If the Mustang had remained "contemporary" or gone "new age", we'd have a vehicle that no one woulda found offensive (well, the marosexuals woulda...), but few would have considered such a Mustang compelling & exciting enough to come up with a downpayment.
The '04 Mustang was "contemporary" for its day. As was the defunct Gaymaro and the Fireturd. For that matter, so was the '04 T-bird, the GTO, and in fact all Pontiacs. What did that get them? If the Mustang had remained "contemporary" or gone "new age", we'd have a vehicle that no one woulda found offensive (well, the marosexuals woulda...), but few would have considered such a Mustang compelling & exciting enough to come up with a downpayment.
The lovely retro styling of the '05 S197 saved the Mustang--there was just too much good competition with contemporary styling or new age styling for the Mustang to have been able to stand out as the car that you want badly enough to sign on the line for 36 or more monthly payments. 
Hau Thai Tang FTW!!!
Hau Thai Tang FTW!!!
Too much good competition? From who? At the time the Camaro was long gone along with the firebird and the Challenger wasn't even around.
If Ford went with a more contemporary design they might of sold more cars, however the retro theme sparked some energy with the baby boomers. The SN95 and New Edge stood out very well during there times, in fact they still stand out very well even today. They were original and forward in design direction, without reverting to the retro look.
2. Mustangs in a world without V8s: I don't want to even think going there
, but since you brought it up....If Mustangs were powered by pushrod two-valve V8s like certain lame-assed competitors from bailed-out ****spinners, I'd have trouble sleeping
. But Mustangs have a great new V8 in the TiVCT 5.0L V8, and I think it'll stand the test of time because;
, but since you brought it up....If Mustangs were powered by pushrod two-valve V8s like certain lame-assed competitors from bailed-out ****spinners, I'd have trouble sleeping. But Mustangs have a great new V8 in the TiVCT 5.0L V8, and I think it'll stand the test of time because;
a. It is one terrific engine performance-wise
b. It is very advanced, lacking only GDI to match the best engines in the world feature for feature--and room was left in the heads for GDI if it needs to be added at some future date
c. It is being offered in other Fords, beginning with the 2011 F-150s
d. It is ecofriendly, and has the technology to remain so for a long, long time
b. It is very advanced, lacking only GDI to match the best engines in the world feature for feature--and room was left in the heads for GDI if it needs to be added at some future date
c. It is being offered in other Fords, beginning with the 2011 F-150s
d. It is ecofriendly, and has the technology to remain so for a long, long time
It certainly is very advanced and well designed. I'm sure it'll get GDI in the future.
Not sure why it being offered in a 2011 F-150 is important to this topic? Yes it has better numbers then those choices from GM and Dodge...
It's relatively friendlier to the environment then previous engines yes. It's still a performance V8, not some sort of super green machine. Most engines today have the capability of lasting a very long time.
e. It is a showpiece, demonstrating to an always-skeptical world that there is no doubt which American automobile company is the technological leader of the western hemisphere
As far as being the technological leader I'd say Ford is very progressive in it's efforts, however just because one company uses a Pushrod design over DOHC for some of it's engines certainly doesn't make it behind the times. The C5 Corvette got better gas mileage then the SN95-New Edge Mustang and today with the C6 it probably still does. Ford, GM and Chrysler are all building some very impressive technologically backed cars.
f. It is an engine that could function pretty much "as is" for many years into the future--not too big (although I think five liters will be considered big for a production vehicle engine just a few short years from now), not too heavy, and certainly not too obsolete relative to other engines that will be in domestic and foreign Mustang competitors years and years from now.
How do you know what size and weight GM's next generation V8 will be? Last I heard it's dropping to a 5.5 for the 6th gen. Camaro. I don't know what Chrysler is doing in the near future for the next Challenger. I will say, neither company will have obsolete powertrains when compared to what Ford will be coming out with. GM is working on it's own version of Ecoboost.
3. "Is it getting to be too much car at this point?" This is a really difficult prognosis to make. Truthfully, I don't know--the market is notorious for moving on to "the next big thing", for better or for worse. Think how big the musclecars were at one time. Back around 1969, one third of all Plymouth intermediates (Belvederes, I believe they were--or maybe Satellites. Who cares?) sold were the "Road Runner" performance model. SUVs, currently in trouble in the marketplace, were once the hottest vehicles in the market. Full-sized vans with lots of custom touches were big before that. Minitrucks had their day in the limelight, too. Electric vehicle manufacturers are hoping their heyday is just ahead. Mustangs have survived where so many, many others have come and gone. You know the history: the originals, the Mustang IIs, the fox bodies, yada yada yada. The S197 of today is the second-biggest Mustang ever--but it is also far and away the best Mustang ever produced. Great basics, great options, great acceleration/braking/handling, great looks, great safety, great environmental compliance, great value--if it is great, it is probably offered in a Mustang. Offering all this greatness requires some volume to contain the roomiest Mustang interior ever, the most crashworthy Mustang ever, the most advanced Mustang powertrains ever, the best-handling Mustang ever, the fastest-accelerating Mustang ever, possibly the most economical Mustang ever, probably the best-braking Mustang ever, certainly the most comfortable Mustang ever, the most utilitarian Mustang ever, and the lowest emissions Mustang ever. Yeah, all this in a two-feet shorter, one-foot narrower, four inches lower, and four-hundred pounds lighter Mustang would please us all--but what would you have to give up to get those specifications? Or what would you have to pay to get those specifications without having to give up some of the greatness? Ford is steadily improving the Mustang while trying to keep it affordable--This year you got the TiVCT 5.0L V8 and a choice of two six-speed transmissions plus dozens of detail improvements for an additional $1100. Chevy & Dodge would maybe throw in a stripes-wheels-and-upgraded-upholstery-trim package for $1100 in their POS imitations...
The next Mustang will be smaller. It will be lighter. And contrary to popular belief the next Mustang will be a much better car then the great car we have today. Chevrolet and Dodge do not have POS imitations. Yes the Camaro and Challenger are exactly original like the Mustang, but they both have their own personalities and character just like the Mustang.
For some people, an imitation is plenty good enough and they'll settle for Camaros, Challengers, and Genesissies. For others, only the genuine item is good enough, and we demand Mustangs.
All three companies make great carsGreg "That's all I have to say about that" Ates[/quote]
Last edited by 5.0SN95; 10/11/10 at 01:59 PM.
10/11/10, 01:52 PM
#142
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Wow, sounds pretty interesting, although I'm having a hard time imagining what the front end would look like per that description. A 3100-3200lb Mustang with 450-475hp would be awesome.
10/11/10, 03:22 PM
#143
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VT hears things but he's more of a secondary source, his information has the feel of coming through several people before it gets to his forum posts. This far out and without support from one of the other sources, I'd say he's in the ballpark but don't expect the details to be 100%.
10/11/10, 05:48 PM
#145
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VT hears things but he's more of a secondary source, his information has the feel of coming through several people before it gets to his forum posts. This far out and without support from one of the other sources, I'd say he's in the ballpark but don't expect the details to be 100%.
10/11/10, 06:41 PM
#146
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Regardless of the validity of these rumors and with only 3-4 years to go, I figured they'd have a pretty good handle on what the car looks like by now. I think that stuff is more or less locked in pretty early.
10/11/10, 07:06 PM
#147
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Actually it's still very early. The final design will not be completed for about another two years.
10/11/10, 08:43 PM
#149
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Design-wise, we've already seen a sneak preview of an unfinished clay model, but it will still be in the phase where they show models internally (maybe to focus groups) to pick a styling direction/look rather than get the actual finished product done. As Laguna points out, they don't need a final car locked in for about 2 years.
10/11/10, 11:31 PM
#150
Legacy TMS Member
10/11/10, 11:38 PM
#151
Legacy TMS Member
bob: This is old, old stuff--like around 2006--I have long forgotten the references. IIRC, the S197 had a torsional body/frame rigidity of 27,000 Newton meters (the Gallardo was around 24,000-25,000), and the Mustang body/frame has been further stiffened at least two times since that 27,000 Newton meters testing (Or perhaps four if the Boss 302 has additional b/f stiffening).
10/12/10, 03:58 AM
#152
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I like everything I hear so far, and it all seems to jive with what has been going around.
I have to admit I love the idea of the hatchback coming back because that means we will probably see a more dramatic fastback profile. I think it could easily be integrated so as not to look like a hatchback. I also hope there is a return to 3 body styles (coupe/fastback/vert) although I understand this is unlikely.
As far as the rear seat being next to useless, that's fine. I know some people use them, but unfortunately I think they are in a very small minority. I think in the 15 or so years that I had various Mustangs I only used the rear seat for people 20-30 times. As long as there is something there you can use in a pinch, that's fine with me.
I have to admit I love the idea of the hatchback coming back because that means we will probably see a more dramatic fastback profile. I think it could easily be integrated so as not to look like a hatchback. I also hope there is a return to 3 body styles (coupe/fastback/vert) although I understand this is unlikely.
As far as the rear seat being next to useless, that's fine. I know some people use them, but unfortunately I think they are in a very small minority. I think in the 15 or so years that I had various Mustangs I only used the rear seat for people 20-30 times. As long as there is something there you can use in a pinch, that's fine with me.
10/12/10, 08:12 AM
#153
Team Mustang Source
Design needs to be locked in sooner than 2 years from now... once the final design is choosen...then the long process begins with software changes,engineering,dyes,fittings,chassis,interior ,prototyping,testing,assembly line changes,retesting...this takes time...You'll probably see spy pics of a prototype this coming Summer. Remember the 2012 will be on the streets by then...
FYI:
We first saw a 2005 Mule in early 2002:
http://books.google.com/books?id=RM8...ed=0CBIQ6AEwAA#
We first saw the 2010 in January 2007:
FYI:
We first saw a 2005 Mule in early 2002:
http://books.google.com/books?id=RM8...ed=0CBIQ6AEwAA#
We first saw the 2010 in January 2007:
Last edited by Topnotch; 10/12/10 at 08:57 AM. Reason: edit
10/12/10, 09:09 AM
#154
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Design needs to be locked in sooner than 2 years from now... once the final design is choosen...then the long process begins with software changes,engineering,dyes,fittings,chassis,interior ,prototyping,testing,assembly line changes,retesting...this takes time...You'll probably see spy pics of a prototype this coming Summer. Remember the 2012 will be on the streets by then...
FYI:
We first saw a 2005 Mule in early 2002:
http://books.google.com/books?id=RM8...ed=0CBIQ6AEwAA#
We first saw the 2010 in January 2007:
FYI:
We first saw a 2005 Mule in early 2002:
http://books.google.com/books?id=RM8...ed=0CBIQ6AEwAA#
We first saw the 2010 in January 2007:
Last edited by Adam; 10/12/10 at 09:15 AM.
10/12/10, 05:45 PM
#158
Team Mustang Source
Market Share...
Along with the Lincoln MKCoupe w/retractable roof...they should do well against Dodge/Chevy/Germanys Finest and em...sorry to say Hyundai...
Along with the Lincoln MKCoupe w/retractable roof...they should do well against Dodge/Chevy/Germanys Finest and em...sorry to say Hyundai...
Last edited by Topnotch; 10/12/10 at 05:48 PM.
10/12/10, 07:44 PM
#160
Team Mustang Source
Coupe will have a more formal rear seat
Hatch will have the Sport Deck Option (fold down/hidden)...as a nod to fastbacks of the past.
Introductory colors include Rangoon Red, Wimbledon White and Guardsman Blue