Automagically

Sounds a lot like the fate of the M series BMW's. Everyone should know that this would be coming. Most would be happy to have a smaller, lighter Mustang.

rhumb

That would be nice as the Mustang has grown quite a bit over the years, now essentially matching the former peak of portliness, the '71-'73 Stang. Rightsizing the Stang down closer to '64-'66 specs would be a step forward in my book. That and a trip to the fat farm to shed some lard.

Hopefully they will keep the power to weight ratio the same, even with fewer ponies in the harness, but less weight should translate to significantly better vehicle dynamics making that power much more usable beyond simple wind sprints.

Boomer

I wouldnt' expect the 5L to go anywhere.

If its smaller and lighter @ even the current HP will make it faster.

Adam

With a 7-speed transmission, stop-start technology, and DI, I think the 5.0 could have Government approved MPG without sacrificing HP. I don't see it going back to 300hp unless they plan to make it the size of a Lotus Elise. It's hard to believe 2012 MY is right around the corner, which means we're that much closer to the redesign. I can hardly wait!

bob

Probably talking about the demise of the 5.4 and using a variant of the coyote rather than killing off the Shelby (or whatever they call the top tier car going forward). They make serious cash off the GT500 so I doubt they would kill it, especially when you consider its effects on CAFE which is next to none.

I've said it before, CAFE wont kill the V8 in the Mustang, but apathy sure would.

Eights

'Gotta agree with bob: the 5.4L jumps out at you as a large, slow target at close range in the crosshairs of the periscope.

"Ready forward torpedo tubes, depth ten feet"..."Range one thousand yards, bearing zero-two-zero"..."Fire one"..."Fire two"..."Fire three"..."Down scope! Helmsman, take her down to two hundred feet--hard to starboard!"
"Captain, two sets of high speed screws bearing two-seven-zero and two-six-two, closing fast!"
"Rig for silent running, seal all bulkheads, prepare for depth charge attack"...

Meanwhile, back in the thread:

Let's remember that although the S197 Mustang is the second-largest Mustang in history, it is also the best Mustang by a long, long way--with more rear-seat room than any previous model and perhaps the only Mustang that can accommodate every Ford gasoline V8 (and even the Aston Martin Vanquish V12) without taking the Sawzall to the inner fender wells or the sledgehammer to the firewall! And it's significantly smaller than those two pathetic imitations from Chevrolet and Dodge. Did I mention that the current S197 is the first Mustang to be compared to a BMW M3 in a serious article by a major hardcopy automotive publication? And that has higher body/frame torsional rigidity than an AWD Lamborghini Gallardo?

Automagically

Whoa whoa whoa, back the submarine up their Cap'n, Would you mind expanding on this V12 theory of yours?

MARZ

I think he's probably referring to this car:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FLo8O1YuUsw

http://www.mustangevolution.com/20080415675/

bob

Thats interesting, if you have a link I'd appreciate it - I know some GM guyus who are slamming the current Mustang as a wet noddle compared to the fifth gen Camaro.

Eights

Automagically: Everyone knows Eights here will expand! The sixty-degree (and thus quite narrow), 34-inches-long Vanquish V12 drops right into the S197 engine compartment, although I'm sure the Mustang world would not be lucky enough to have the engine mounts match up without alteration. Headers have plenty of clearance, too, although TMK there are no aftermarket bolt-ins for this application...

'Wanna see a haul-*** early S197 to which this has happened? Go to www.wmsracing.com and feast your orbs on "Vanquish'd"!

This ain't no theory!

OTOH, a crate Vanquish V12--if a Vanquish V12 can even be gotten in a crate--will probably set you back more than you paid for the S197 you plan to put it in.

Greg "**** how I wish I was rich" Ates

Automagically

I see now this Vanquish V12 in the S197. Very cool and sounds incredible. If that were the sound coming out of the Saleen model, I wouldn't think twice about it. That's a very sweet project. Though it's out of a pretty sweet car anyway. Only if I had ridiculous amounts of money would I logically do this swap. I almost thought it would be sweet to see the V8 vantage engine in an S197 but with the new 5.0L it would seem a bit redundant almost.

Back on subject I guess, I could see some eco boost options if the Mustang does go further on the modern design with the low stance and wide hips. This sounds like a great future for the car.

Eights

bob: This is old, old stuff--like around 2006--I have long forgotten the references. IIRC, the S197 had a torsional body/frame rigidity of 27,000 Newton meters (the Gallardo was around 24,000-25,000), and the Mustang body/frame has been further stiffened at least two times since that 27,000 Newton meters testing (Or perhaps four if the Boss 302 has additional b/f stiffening).

The fifth gen Camaro is constructed of the highest quality rubber that service station men's room vending machines can provide--that's why early 2009 Camaros conked out when electrical system wiring wore through in only forty miles (Youtube showed some dizzy chick's fumblepee yellow Camaro on a tow truck only forty miles after she took delivery), and their front fascias were cracking at speed. This may have had something to do with all the broken Camaro transmission output shafts that Chevy tried to insinuate were the fault of the Tremec manuals--you don't see GT500s, Vipers, and 'Vettes having problems with their Tremec's output shafts, huh? Another giveaway of the lack of rigidity is that even though a Camaro SS weighs 280 pounds or so more than a Mustang GT, the Mustang GT has a 5-star frontal crash rating and the accordion that is the Camaro SS only managed a 4-star frontal crash rating.

Camaro: Baseball, hotdogs, apple pie, and piece of ****. Tell those GM marosexuals to come up with some actual body/frame torsional rigidity measurements. Remind their mullet-sodden heads that just coming up with some figure pulled outta their asses will only convince their fellow marosexuals, a gullible collection of humanity made outwardly evident by their choice of vehicle. Smirk.

Greg "Eights" Ates

Eights

Automagically: Yeah, a V12 Mustang would be the kick-*** of the decade, and Ford already manufactures this engine for Aston Martin so what's the hold-up here? After all, what does Ford owe Aston now that Aston's been sold???

But back to EcoBoost: It sure seems a natural in the Mustang, huh? Maybe it'll happen, although you know how that might be a bit awkward with the 5.0 V8 already being offered. We can preview this situation by monitoring 2012 F150 sales since the truck will offer both the 5.0L V8 (with 365 HP) and the 3.5L EcoBoost V6! The 2012 F150 will also offer the Mustang's 3.7L V6 and the Raptor's SOHC dual-sparkplug two-valve 6.2L V8, but those are not EcoBoost engines so I'll omit those from this particular discussion.

Two or three years ago, Lincoln had a concept called the MKR (IIRC) that had a prototype EcoBoost V6 ('Dunno if it displaced 3.5 liters at that time, but it is the engine that became the EcoBoost 3.5L V6 today) configured for longitudinal placement in the engine compartment and it was pumping out 416 HP and unknown (to me) pounds-feet of torque. Googling may get you all the details. Evidently, transverse placement in an engine bay really handicaps a Vee engine...

This would be the absolutely perfect engine for a current Shelby Terlingua Racing Team Mustang to carry on from the pre-2010 Terlingua Racing Team Mustangs (a post-title conversion--Shelby's organization did not sell them as turnkey vehicles) that used the old 4.0L Vulcan V6 (if you got the supercharged version you got 350 HP in your Terlingua). This could be a serious giant-killer! And it would be easy since Ford knows what's necessary from that Lincoln MKR concept and from the longitudinal 2012 EcoBoost 3.5L F150.

Automagically, if you 'n' me ran Ford Motor Company, GM and Chrysler would be filing bankruptcy again by the end of next year!

Greg "Let me have the reins for just twelve months" Ates

Automagically

Hmm, a lot to cover, I'll try to be breif...

Yes.







There are a great many things I agree with in your statement. I can't say that I wouldn't pout if the Mustang were not offering a V8 model anymore. So I am careful with how comfortable I am with entertaining the idea of the eco boost V6. I think you are right, we will really have to watch how this works in the F150. Ford will have to prove the muscle of a V6. So far so good. I too will need convincing. I remember a time when inline engines were still no cigar to an 8. I will say that I still have faith in inline engines but this is a non-issue here. So we will see. Looking at some of the sketches, I'd love to hear a high winding V8 bellow out the back end of a new age Mustang. I guess I hope I am not asking for too much. Is it getting to be too much car at this point? Will it remain the common man's sports car? There are many successes this day in age so we will see!

Eights

Automagically: Your excellent response goes into some serious issues about the future of the Mustang in many ways.

1. "...new age Mustang" The '04 Mustang was "contemporary" for its day. As was the defunct Gaymaro and the Fireturd. For that matter, so was the '04 T-bird, the GTO, and in fact all Pontiacs. What did that get them? If the Mustang had remained "contemporary" or gone "new age", we'd have a vehicle that no one woulda found offensive (well, the marosexuals woulda...), but few would have considered such a Mustang compelling & exciting enough to come up with a downpayment. The lovely retro styling of the '05 S197 saved the Mustang--there was just too much good competition with contemporary styling or new age styling for the Mustang to have been able to stand out as the car that you want badly enough to sign on the line for 36 or more monthly payments. Hau Thai Tang FTW!!!
2. Mustangs in a world without V8s: I don't want to even think going there, but since you brought it up....If Mustangs were powered by pushrod two-valve V8s like certain lame-assed competitors from bailed-out ****spinners, I'd have trouble sleeping. But Mustangs have a great new V8 in the TiVCT 5.0L V8, and I think it'll stand the test of time because;
a. It is one terrific engine performance-wise
b. It is very advanced, lacking only GDI to match the best engines in the world feature for feature--and room was left in the heads for GDI if it needs to be added at some future date
c. It is being offered in other Fords, beginning with the 2011 F-150s
d. It is ecofriendly, and has the technology to remain so for a long, long time
e. It is a showpiece, demonstrating to an always-skeptical world that there is no doubt which American automobile company is the technological leader of the western hemisphere
f. It is an engine that could function pretty much "as is" for many years into the future--not too big (although I think five liters will be considered big for a production vehicle engine just a few short years from now), not too heavy, and certainly not too obsolete relative to other engines that will be in domestic and foreign Mustang competitors years and years from now.
3. "Is it getting to be too much car at this point?" This is a really difficult prognosis to make. Truthfully, I don't know--the market is notorious for moving on to "the next big thing", for better or for worse. Think how big the musclecars were at one time. Back around 1969, one third of all Plymouth intermediates (Belvederes, I believe they were--or maybe Satellites. Who cares?) sold were the "Road Runner" performance model. SUVs, currently in trouble in the marketplace, were once the hottest vehicles in the market. Full-sized vans with lots of custom touches were big before that. Minitrucks had their day in the limelight, too. Electric vehicle manufacturers are hoping their heyday is just ahead. Mustangs have survived where so many, many others have come and gone. You know the history: the originals, the Mustang IIs, the fox bodies, yada yada yada. The S197 of today is the second-biggest Mustang ever--but it is also far and away the best Mustang ever produced. Great basics, great options, great acceleration/braking/handling, great looks, great safety, great environmental compliance, great value--if it is great, it is probably offered in a Mustang. Offering all this greatness requires some volume to contain the roomiest Mustang interior ever, the most crashworthy Mustang ever, the most advanced Mustang powertrains ever, the best-handling Mustang ever, the fastest-accelerating Mustang ever, possibly the most economical Mustang ever, probably the best-braking Mustang ever, certainly the most comfortable Mustang ever, the most utilitarian Mustang ever, and the lowest emissions Mustang ever. Yeah, all this in a two-feet shorter, one-foot narrower, four inches lower, and four-hundred pounds lighter Mustang would please us all--but what would you have to give up to get those specifications? Or what would you have to pay to get those specifications without having to give up some of the greatness? Ford is steadily improving the Mustang while trying to keep it affordable--This year you got the TiVCT 5.0L V8 and a choice of two six-speed transmissions plus dozens of detail improvements for an additional $1100. Chevy & Dodge would maybe throw in a stripes-wheels-and-upgraded-upholstery-trim package for $1100 in their POS imitations...
For some people, an imitation is plenty good enough and they'll settle for Camaros, Challengers, and Genesissies. For others, only the genuine item is good enough, and we demand Mustangs.

Greg "That's all I have to say about that" Ates

LagunaBeach

And the saga continues. This should get interesting.

PTRocks

Here's an interesting post/rumour from over at BON:

It's really interesting in terms of the level of detail offered.

Twin Turbo

That all sounds fantastic............with the exception of the back seat. This HAS to be usable. My kids want to be able to enjoy the Mustang experience too

Anyone know if Versa-Tech is a reliable source? That's not the sort of stuff I'd expect someone to make up.

PTRocks

Agreed on the back seat. I'd sacrifice some trunk space instead.

Twin Turbo

Given the likely new platform, I'm surprised the wheelbase isn't actually going to be extended, whilst the overhangs get reduced.....that seems more logical to me.

Part of the appeal of the Mustang is its relative practicality.