Moosetang

Falcon's not dead. But there's a sizable disagreement among various sources on just what the next-gen Falcon platform, the next Mustang platform, and the future of RWD in Ford's global vehicle lineup will actually look like. We'll just have to wait for some firm information to show up.

bob

Its not so much the IRS and its locating hardware as it is the cradle that the IRS attatches to and I dont think you'll find an aluminum or magnesium cradle underpinning the Mustang anytime soon (well that is if Ford still doesn't want to cater to the .000000000000001% of the Mustang community that wants "a cost is no object Mustang GT") Aluminum arms maybe, but in alot of cases a very cost effective and fairly lightweight cast iron or stamped steel part can do the job.


And as far as a Falcon based Mustang, the Falcon is a great car, but unless Ford can carve a sub 3600 lbs two door coupe out of it... no thanks.

Eights

bob: Good posting! "Lightweight Cast Iron" was a rock group that sang "In-A-Gadda-Da-Vida" circa 1960-something.

What material was used by Ford to replace the cracking cast aluminum A-arms on all the '04 Ford GTs? Was it forged aluminum or forged steel? In any case, cutting corners on those A-arms by using castings probably cost Ford every cent of profits ever made on the Ford GTs. Thank God none of those A-arms had broken at high speed before some dealership mechanic spotted the cracks on a Ford GT that was in for a routine check-up--the PR would have been disastrous. Driver & passenger mighta been missing a few essential parts, too...
The marketplace is far less forgiving of those who do something but do it wrong than it is of those who don't do it at all.

What about using the current IRS in Australian Falcons? Be aware that the Holden Commodores used a derivative of the Cadillac Catera's IRS, and most lay the blame for the resurrected GTOs handling ills on that decision (The 3777 lb. GTO got handed its axles in slaloms and figure-eights by the 4266 lb. Charger SRT8--Motor Trend, July 2006. The SRA GT500 stomped the sheet out of both of them in slaloms & figure-eights in that same comparo, BTW.).
Moral: Make sure that any off-the-shelf IRS that gets considered for the next Mustang can convincingly outhandle the Boss 302 Laguna Seca or just forget about it.

Magnesium: A tricky metal. Burns intensely, easily corrodes in water, and may not be weldable at all (see "Burns intensely" upstream in this sentence). Lithium is tricky, too. And carbon fiber can be labor-intensive (Ford did build a few Tauruses with carbon fiber bodies/frames, but they were not optimized for carbon fiber's qualities--Ford essentially just duplicated steel bodies/frames in carbon fiber. It was an experiment to get some experience with carbon fiber as a major component material, and I never read, heard, or saw what became of the experiment).
Moral: There are reasons that aluminum is the preferred alternative metal in the automobile industry...

All this points to the need to make the next Mustang smaller. Let it be Ford of Australia's mission to figure out how to make a viable Falcon out of a smaller Mustang's body/frame. DON'T compromise our Mustang for their Falcon!

Greg "Stand up and be counted!" Ates

Twin Turbo

Agree. Has the SRA in the GT/Boss been honed to perfection now? Certainly it's proved it's metal against the BMW M3, so certainly any IRS Mustang has to at least handle as well as the current GT.

I have full faith in the Australian team, but I'm sure they'll have all the help they need from Team Mustang

Automagically

I would say it's almost as close as it's going to get without putting a Watts link in. Ford will really have to prove its case when moving into an IRA Mustang. It's going to be done so might as well be a good one.

xlover

i think its pretty much a foregone conclusion the 2013/2014 redesign will have IRS it is just a question of execution. I think the mustang team and ford will do what they have been doing for the past few years... doing something because it is the right thing for the vehicle line and doing it the best they can. (see examples, 2010 interior redesign, 2011 5.0 V8, 2011 GT500 alum block, 2012 BOSS, etc) not to mention the numerous upgrades on the other vehicles in the lineup. They have left the half assed efforts of the past behind. from them i would expect nothing other than a drag capable (for those who cant stop living a 1/4mi at a time) durable IRS that will out handle the current car on a road course. with all the progress they have made i cant see the engineering team going back to settling for "good enough"

bob

I wouldn't see an IRS adding much in terms of overall road holding, but ride comfort and overall handling confidence would benefit the most. While Mustang guys might be used to the 3 link SRA and panhard rod arrangement in the current car, I can see where it would be spooky for somebody used to a modern IRS setup (old Porsche and Bug guys know what I'm talking about there). Although a good watts-link would go a long way toward fixing that behavior if say, Ford was looking into a next gen SRA setup.

bob

IIRC the original spec a-arms were roto-cast...err molded.. err whatever and the supplier hadn't propler cleaned the equipment leading to the a-arm failures. Porsche uses the same technology in thier suspension components IIRC. Also I thought the replacement arms were billet?

Boomer

<cough> Iron Butterfly <cough>

Brewman

And the original name of the Song was "In the Garden Of Eden"

Eights

Boomer & Brewman:

<cough> Iron Butterfly <cough> I know...
And the original name of the Song was "In the Garden Of Eden" I know that, too...

I've got the vinyl thirty-three-and-a-third album, bought just outside of Oakland back in the day.

One of music's Golden Ages...

Eights

bob: At the time, the articles I read on the web about the DND and the fix stated that the replacement A-arms were forged, and there was a pic of one of the new A-arms and commentary by Jay Leno about how well he thought Ford had handled a very sensitive recall (Ford people sent out trucks to pick up each of the recalled Ford GTs at a place and time convenient to the owners, and returned them by truck once the new components had been installed).

In any case, the sub-contractor in Tennessee pressure-cast them using the techniques used by Porsche to pressure-cast A-arms, but failed to sanitize the molds after each casting which left impurities in the molds that compromised the subsequent A-arms cast in those molds. And those impurities caused the A-arms to start cracking with use.
Moral: Subcontracting is a risk. Do it in-house, and do it well.

The "Do Not Drive" recall caused by a subcontractor screw-up will always be a blemish on the record of the first American production vehicle that could maintain over a football field a second at full wail. That is a damned shame...

Greg "I am still P.O.'d about that" Ates

Eights

Twin Turbo: No, to be worth it, any IRS Mustang can't settle for being just as good as the current solid rear axle. It's gotta be better--and if it can't convincingly outhandle the Boss 302 Laguna Seca the GM fanboys on the GM websites and the GM apologists on this one will say "Ford blew it--they can't even build an IRS that can beat their own log axle. Haw haw haw! Mustangs suck! Camaros rule! Pfffffttttttttttttt!"
'Know what I mean?

And no, finish the new Mustang exactly as it should be, and then let Ford's Australian designers and engineers adapt it to whatever specs they need for a new Falcon. Once you "cooperate", the next Mustang will be compromised.
I ain't no compromisin' guy.
Compromise is the vehicle that delivers mediocrity to an unsuspecting world. The flabby Camaro is a shortened Zeta Obese chassis, and the oinkin' Challenger is a shortened Charger chassis. Need I say more?

Greg "Somebody's gotta stand up for doing things right. I'm him." Ates

Knight

Even if the IRS carries a bit of weigth penalty its all going to be sprung weight. Unsprung weight is a much larger performance killer then sprung weight.

fmstang68

If I remember correctly, the 2005 Mustang appeared as a concept drawing in Motor Trend in late 2002 or early 2003. Same thing may happen for the 2014.

Boomer

It was suppose to be a 2003.5

bt4

I don't think weight, sprung, unsprung, or otherwise is the issue. I think Greg "Over the Top" Ates has fairly accurately nailed the issue. If (and it seems likely) the next iteration of the Mustang has an IRS, it cannot be a medicore effort--it cannot just match the current performance of the SRA, it has to better it. Anything else--why bother?

bob

Did the article say who handled the new A-arms? I'm curious who did the work, setting up to do limited number of forged A-arms had to be super expensive!

Yeah, that was it

Agreed, its to bad Ford, GM, et al get dinged for this all the time defintely caveat emptor (well for the car producer anyway).

I dont disagree, but thats a tall order. In the FOX/SN95 days it would have been relatively easy to do so (and Ford did just that with the Cobra IRS), it terms of road-holding the current 3-link does an excellent job even on fairly bumpy roads. I dont think we will see the sort of improvement going from the S-197 to the next car like we did with the SN95 going to the S-197. Rather going to an IRS in the next car will benefit ride and to some degree interior packaging as one of the lesser known benefits to an IRS is it typically takes less space to operate in compared to an SRA.

Hopefully Ford will nail the launch characteristics like GM did with thier IRS which to me is just as if not more important than an actual increase in road holding or transient repsonse or whatever.

Eights

"Did the article say who handled the new A-arms? I'm curious who did the work, setting up to do limited number of forged A-arms had to be super expensive!"

bob: I just can't recall whether they did or didn't state who may have fabricated the replacement A-Arms--it was four or maybe five years ago now. I agree that it probably cost Ford an A-Arm and a leg (heh heh), and I'm sure it devoured savagely any and all profits that may have resulted from Ford GT sales.

Everything about that episode is sad, except that none of the cracked A-Arms actually broke before they were replaced so no one was injured/maimed/killed as a result.

Greg "I wish I didn't have chronic CRS" Ates

Topnotch

Not so much a leak but Fords new PW/DL/Elec. Mirror buttons may end up in the stang...