Mustang 3.5L Ecoboost engine swap
3/17/16, 05:25 PM
#1121
Cobra Member
Thread Starter
I do plan to upgrade to a lightweight flywheel when I rebuild the engine, I will keep this in mind because I doubt I would have thought of this on my own.
3/17/16, 09:20 PM
#1122
Cobra Member
Thread Starter
I bought a NX fuel hose adapter that has (2) 1/8" fuel ports, this will allow me to add the nitrous fuel line and to connect the additional injectors for custom intake. We decided to go ahead and install it now so I can temporarily add fuel gauge to measure the low pressure side. It turned out to give me even more evidence that it's a bad injector, Lexiion still isn't completely convinced but I think he's close 
When I turn the key the fuel pump primes and the pressure goes to just over 50 psi, as soon as I start cranking the car the pressure drops to 0 psi writhin 1-2 seconds without the car starting. The low pressure pump doesn't run except for the priming. If the engine would have started the pump would have also started running constantly as usual. This told us the pressure is bleeding off somewhere, the pressure should only slowly drop while starting, it's not using very much fuel to start the engine.
I wired the low pressure pump to run constantly. The pressure went up to 58 psi and stayed there, even while cranking but the car didn't start.
This tells us the low pressure side is working fine and is not the issue. There's something bleeding off fuel pressure on the high pressure side. Since there's no fuel bleeding off outside the engine it must be happening inside the engine.
Again this is more evidence of a stuck injector. My new injectors arrive tomorrow but I still don't know which one to change. We are going to hook up the low pressure pump to 12v so it runs constantly and try and crank the car. This should flood one of the cylinders, we will take the plugs out one by one and look inside the cylinder with a camera. We checked the plugs and there's wasn't a clear problem in any cylinder....all the plugs were wet.
When I turn the key the fuel pump primes and the pressure goes to just over 50 psi, as soon as I start cranking the car the pressure drops to 0 psi writhin 1-2 seconds without the car starting. The low pressure pump doesn't run except for the priming. If the engine would have started the pump would have also started running constantly as usual. This told us the pressure is bleeding off somewhere, the pressure should only slowly drop while starting, it's not using very much fuel to start the engine.
I wired the low pressure pump to run constantly. The pressure went up to 58 psi and stayed there, even while cranking but the car didn't start.
This tells us the low pressure side is working fine and is not the issue. There's something bleeding off fuel pressure on the high pressure side. Since there's no fuel bleeding off outside the engine it must be happening inside the engine.
Again this is more evidence of a stuck injector. My new injectors arrive tomorrow but I still don't know which one to change. We are going to hook up the low pressure pump to 12v so it runs constantly and try and crank the car. This should flood one of the cylinders, we will take the plugs out one by one and look inside the cylinder with a camera. We checked the plugs and there's wasn't a clear problem in any cylinder....all the plugs were wet.
3/18/16, 11:48 AM
#1124
Cobra Member
Thread Starter
Turns out I won't be getting those weld racing wheels. I bought them online and paid the guy $2k for the set but it's been 9 days now and won't ship them. Yesterday he gave me a fake tracking number on top of it all. When I called him out on it he said he would refund my money but hasn't. I'm glad I used PayPal, I filed a claim and I will get my money back. Not the first time I had something like this happen, what's wrong with people.
I know through the interactions I had with him that he's in the military. I went on to his eBay page and there's lots of brand new military items for sale. Just in case he didn't come by those honestly I reported him, good luck with that a-hole
I know through the interactions I had with him that he's in the military. I went on to his eBay page and there's lots of brand new military items for sale. Just in case he didn't come by those honestly I reported him, good luck with that a-hole
Last edited by Ecostang; 3/18/16 at 02:01 PM.
3/18/16, 11:57 AM
#1126
2013 RR Boss 302 #2342
Join Date: March 6, 2012
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Wow! Very shady indeed! 
3/18/16, 12:02 PM
#1127
Cobra Member
Thread Starter
I spoke with Injector Speacialists earlier about my possible injector problem. He does agree that it sounds like a stuck injector based on all the evidence. He told me not to bring the injectors in, that I could test them myself. He was a really nice guy and spent 20 mins on the phone with me explaining what he knew about the direct injectors.
He explained that a dead injector could easily be tested with a volt meter (ohms) but a stuck injector could not. To do the test for a stuck injector he said simply remove all the coil packs (so there's no spark and potential fires) and remove all the spark plugs. He said to crank the engine and that the stuck injector will spray gas out of the spark plug hole, he said it would be dramatic and to cover the paint on the car. I'll try this when I get home today and see what happens.
He told me about new audis needing new direct injectors every 30k miles and that it cost $1,500! He said BMW was really bad too, that the new m5 burns 1qt of oil every 500 miles due to having low friction rings, he said it even comes with oil in a special bmw case in the trunk. This oil getting last the rings fouls the injector making it run rough. Wow
He explained that a dead injector could easily be tested with a volt meter (ohms) but a stuck injector could not. To do the test for a stuck injector he said simply remove all the coil packs (so there's no spark and potential fires) and remove all the spark plugs. He said to crank the engine and that the stuck injector will spray gas out of the spark plug hole, he said it would be dramatic and to cover the paint on the car. I'll try this when I get home today and see what happens.
He told me about new audis needing new direct injectors every 30k miles and that it cost $1,500! He said BMW was really bad too, that the new m5 burns 1qt of oil every 500 miles due to having low friction rings, he said it even comes with oil in a special bmw case in the trunk. This oil getting last the rings fouls the injector making it run rough. Wow
3/18/16, 12:04 PM
#1128
Cobra Member
Thread Starter
3/18/16, 12:06 PM
#1129
Cobra Member
Thread Starter
3/18/16, 12:36 PM
#1130
I spoke with Injector Speacialists earlier about my possible injector problem. He does agree that it sounds like a stuck injector based on all the evidence. He told me not to bring the injectors in, that I could test them myself. He was a really nice guy and spent 20 mins on the phone with me explaining what he knew about the direct injectors.
He explained that a dead injector could easily be tested with a volt meter (ohms) but a stuck injector could not. To do the test for a stuck injector he said simply remove all the coil packs (so there's no spark and potential fires) and remove all the spark plugs. He said to crank the engine and that the stuck injector will spray gas out of the spark plug hole, he said it would be dramatic and to cover the paint on the car. I'll try this when I get home today and see what happens.
He told me about new audis needing new direct injectors every 30k miles and that it cost $1,500! He said BMW was really bad too, that the new m5 burns 1qt of oil every 500 miles due to having low friction rings, he said it even comes with oil in a special bmw case in the trunk. This oil getting last the rings fouls the injector making it run rough. Wow
He explained that a dead injector could easily be tested with a volt meter (ohms) but a stuck injector could not. To do the test for a stuck injector he said simply remove all the coil packs (so there's no spark and potential fires) and remove all the spark plugs. He said to crank the engine and that the stuck injector will spray gas out of the spark plug hole, he said it would be dramatic and to cover the paint on the car. I'll try this when I get home today and see what happens.
He told me about new audis needing new direct injectors every 30k miles and that it cost $1,500! He said BMW was really bad too, that the new m5 burns 1qt of oil every 500 miles due to having low friction rings, he said it even comes with oil in a special bmw case in the trunk. This oil getting last the rings fouls the injector making it run rough. Wow
Last edited by Slowb00st; 3/18/16 at 12:38 PM.
3/18/16, 02:00 PM
#1131
Cobra Member
Thread Starter
A couple of years ago I had to change all of the injectors on my father's 335i because one went bad and the new injectors weren't compatible with the old design. Car was around de 50k mile mark. It was around $950 because I did the labor and had the cable to do the reprogramming.
3/18/16, 09:26 PM
#1132
Cobra Member
Thread Starter
The clutch would be too far from the slave cylinder. Apparently it can still work for a little bit though, but I don't really know how. This is an excerpt from a review of a flywheel that says it should fit the 3.7 but has no mention of the spacer:
"The V6 flywheel bolts were too long for the much thinner flywheel. This was the first warning that more parts are needed. A quick, courteous call to Ram revealed that you need the flywheel bolts from an '01 4,6l V8. So that slowed things down a bunch as very few places stock that on the shelves. After getting everything reinstalled and the clutch bled, the clutch throw was hair trigger & eventually the pedal stuck to the floor. The clutch was too far from the slave cylinder. Another set of calls & talking with the ford tech reveals you need a 1/2" slave cylinder spacer that a V8 comes with stock - which currently is only included in the V6 RAM HDX clutch. Ford DOES NOT stock this part, it's not in their parts computer anywhere. I was able to find the RAM spacer by itself after a couple days searching and now the car runs fabulously."
American Muscle really should mention this under technical notes, but they don't, and they don't sell the spacer by itself either. I feel like that's a pretty major oversight seeing as they say it's compatible with the 3.7. I'm sure you would have noticed the issue by now if you had it though, so I'm guessing that's just another difference between the 3.5 and 3.7 but I'll try to confirm this as soon as I can.
"The V6 flywheel bolts were too long for the much thinner flywheel. This was the first warning that more parts are needed. A quick, courteous call to Ram revealed that you need the flywheel bolts from an '01 4,6l V8. So that slowed things down a bunch as very few places stock that on the shelves. After getting everything reinstalled and the clutch bled, the clutch throw was hair trigger & eventually the pedal stuck to the floor. The clutch was too far from the slave cylinder. Another set of calls & talking with the ford tech reveals you need a 1/2" slave cylinder spacer that a V8 comes with stock - which currently is only included in the V6 RAM HDX clutch. Ford DOES NOT stock this part, it's not in their parts computer anywhere. I was able to find the RAM spacer by itself after a couple days searching and now the car runs fabulously."
American Muscle really should mention this under technical notes, but they don't, and they don't sell the spacer by itself either. I feel like that's a pretty major oversight seeing as they say it's compatible with the 3.7. I'm sure you would have noticed the issue by now if you had it though, so I'm guessing that's just another difference between the 3.5 and 3.7 but I'll try to confirm this as soon as I can.
How to determine if a shim is needed for your setup:
During each and every clutch install you perform on a newer GM vehicle, you must measure to see if a shim is necessary for proper installation. This is done by taking two simple measurements (see worksheet):
1) Measurement "A" is the distance between the surface of the bellhousing that meets the transmission to the tip of the pressure plate fingers. To get an accurate measurement, the clutch must be torqued properly.
2) Measurement "B" is the distance between the throwout bearing surface to the transmission surface that meets the bellhousing. To get an accurate measurement, the slave spring must be removed and the bearing must be fully seated at the bottom of it's travel; resting on the slave's base.
Once you've got your two measurements, make sure that measurement "B" is ~3/16" to 1/8" LESS than measurement "A". If you come up with more than 1/8", add an appropriately sized shim between the slave cylinder and the transmission in order to get the measurements where they need to be.
Your “A minus B” measurement should be 0.125 to 0.200 for adequate bearing travel and to allow for clutch wear. If there is no difference between the two measurements, or if "B" is greater than "A", there could be a problem with clutch engagement which could result in premature clutch slip and eventually a total failure. Contact your clutch manufacturer before proceeding with the install.
Last edited by Ecostang; 3/18/16 at 09:34 PM.
3/19/16, 05:18 PM
#1133
Cobra Member
Thread Starter
To all the ecostang fans.....it runs again!!!!
It wasn't a stuck injector after all. I used a camera to look at each cylinder and it wasn't flooded.
To get the car to run I had to connect the lpfp to 12v and jump the starter relay. Lexiion says we need a capacitor inline with the ignition. I'm glad one of us understands what's going on.
It wasn't a stuck injector after all. I used a camera to look at each cylinder and it wasn't flooded.
To get the car to run I had to connect the lpfp to 12v and jump the starter relay. Lexiion says we need a capacitor inline with the ignition. I'm glad one of us understands what's going on.
3/19/16, 05:31 PM
#1134
Legacy TMS Member
Glad you guys got it figured out!
3/19/16, 05:39 PM
#1136
Mach 1 Member
To all the ecostang fans.....it runs again!!!!
It wasn't a stuck injector after all. I used a camera to look at each cylinder and it wasn't flooded.
To get the car to run I had to connect the lpfp to 12v and jump the starter relay. Lexiion says we need a capacitor inline with the ignition. I'm glad one of us understands what's going on.
It wasn't a stuck injector after all. I used a camera to look at each cylinder and it wasn't flooded.
To get the car to run I had to connect the lpfp to 12v and jump the starter relay. Lexiion says we need a capacitor inline with the ignition. I'm glad one of us understands what's going on.
I am glad that it runs. The new fuel pump behaves different and that maybe the cause of our issues.
LEXiiON
3/19/16, 06:53 PM
#1137
GT Member
To all the ecostang fans.....it runs again!!!!
It wasn't a stuck injector after all. I used a camera to look at each cylinder and it wasn't flooded.
To get the car to run I had to connect the lpfp to 12v and jump the starter relay. Lexiion says we need a capacitor inline with the ignition. I'm glad one of us understands what's going on.
It wasn't a stuck injector after all. I used a camera to look at each cylinder and it wasn't flooded.
To get the car to run I had to connect the lpfp to 12v and jump the starter relay. Lexiion says we need a capacitor inline with the ignition. I'm glad one of us understands what's going on.
3/20/16, 10:41 AM
#1139
Cobra Member
Thread Starter
I mentioned I've been speaking with the guys over at cavalli turbos about my car. The rep asked me for a picture of the turbo clearance to the steering shaft and so crawled under there this morning. To my surprise there's at least a 1/2" of clearance around the turbo to the steering shaft. One of 2 things happened when I considered the clearance before.
Either the motor moved to create more room, I could have looked at this before the transmission was installed or before the mounts were tightened for the trans. This would have tilted the engine forward creating more room. Or I checked this while I had the steering shaft disconnected from the steering wheel inside the car.
Either way there's plenty of room around the turbo and I wanted to clear that up for anyone else doing this install.
Either the motor moved to create more room, I could have looked at this before the transmission was installed or before the mounts were tightened for the trans. This would have tilted the engine forward creating more room. Or I checked this while I had the steering shaft disconnected from the steering wheel inside the car.
Either way there's plenty of room around the turbo and I wanted to clear that up for anyone else doing this install.
Last edited by Ecostang; 3/20/16 at 10:42 AM.
3/20/16, 12:24 PM
#1140
V6 Member
I'm glad to hear you got the car going! So the stock GT fuel pump you installed was the issue? Were you using the aeromotive fuel pump controller or were you running it with the F150 ECU?
That's great news about the turbos too. As for the flywheel it was a stock size steel 5.0 flywheel. For the GT it's a direct replacement, no new bolts or spacers needed. It's a fairly common topic of discussion on the cyclone mustangs page as there are very very few direct replacement options for the crappy stock dual mass flywheel on the 3.7. I'm hoping the 3.5 just has slightly different dimensions than the 3.7 though, seeing as how yours seems to be working. If I could save $100 and still be able to choose any 5.0 clutch and flywheel setup I wanted, I would be a happy camper.
That's great news about the turbos too. As for the flywheel it was a stock size steel 5.0 flywheel. For the GT it's a direct replacement, no new bolts or spacers needed. It's a fairly common topic of discussion on the cyclone mustangs page as there are very very few direct replacement options for the crappy stock dual mass flywheel on the 3.7. I'm hoping the 3.5 just has slightly different dimensions than the 3.7 though, seeing as how yours seems to be working. If I could save $100 and still be able to choose any 5.0 clutch and flywheel setup I wanted, I would be a happy camper.
Last edited by GatorV6; 3/20/16 at 12:25 PM.