Klay

Let me try to clarify a bit, as I can see how you came to your conclusion. What I trying to say is that IRS IS better than SRA in general, just like v8 engines (not necessarily Ford, any automaker) are better than v6's. However, a V6 CAN perform better than a standard v8. Just like SRA CAN outperform an IRS system. That is the point I'm trying to make. Ford makes a really good SRA suspension, one that is better than some IRS systems out there. That is all I am trying to say. Just like GM makes pushrod V8's that are better than some modern DOHC V8's.

Also, you are stretching things a bit in this comparison that is highlighted. The GTR being faster than the GT500 isn't really because the engine itself performs better, it has more to do with the platforms the engines are in. I'm quite confident that the GT500 can be made faster than the GTR, even if they get the same mods (especially since their mph in the 1/4 is similar). Tires for instance, help the GT500 much more than they would the GTR.

bob

Bah, take your logical observations elsewhere sir. IRS vs SRA is about passion and logic be damned!

Ice Hawk

Correct you ARE sir!

m05fastbackGT

What's really silly about this thread, is how all the naysayers claim the 2010 Camaro SS, is supposedly so superior over the Mustang.

Just because it has an IRS, doesn't necessarily mean it's a better quality car over the Mustang.

As for it's 422HP 6.2L, sure it'll beat the 2010 GT.

However there's also no denying the fact, that GM's LS engines continue to use ancient pushrod technology. Which is just as primitive as Ford's SRA.

Therefore IMHO, Mustang is far more advanced over GM, where it matters most. Personally, I'd much rather have a more technically advanced powertrain, over an IRS anyday.

Bottom line, is when the new 5.0L 400HP DOHC arrives in the 2011 GT.
The Camaro SS, will be getting a very rude awakening.


That being said, Mustang will remain as the best overall/practical value. Just as it always has !

Hollywood_North GT

Sorry, but I have to disagree with that argument. Power is power - how you make it isn't nearly as important as how you put it to the ground.

See Corvette ZR1 for details.

edumspeed

FordBlueHeart

Just to stir the pot some more, I agree, how you put it to the ground is the most important. Which is why the SRA is better for daily driving.

97GT03SVT

Who cares if they use push rods? The Corvette Z06 is a exotic beating supercar that uses them. How about stock cars, they are pretty reliable racing at high speeds for up to 500 or so miles. The bottom line is that even though the LS motors are push rods they still offer plenty of high tech. Lets not forget that these motors in automatic trim offer cylinder deactivation at cruising speeds and also the direct injection that the 4.6 still doesn't have. If you have ever driven a C6 vette or GTO you know that the LS motors run just as smooth as a 4.6.

Say what you will about the Camaro, but as of right now it has a superior performance vehicle. Lets see 300-maybe 315HP vs 422HP..... Oh and i bet that it gets better MPG, then say what you will but an IRS vs SRA.

I think where Ford is going to have the real advantage is in the small details and features. I also feel that the Mustang's interior will be in a class of it's own. I think it will be like the 4th gen cars, the Camaro will be the more performance oriented the Mustang will be the most practical and the Challenger will split the difference.

jsaylor

Actually, this is an advantage the LS series V8's are losing. The G8 GT skipped the LS3 to avoid a GGT, and the automatic trans version of the SS is skipping the LS3 for the same reason. Manual trans equipped SS model pass muster in this respect with the LS3 under-hood, but just barely.

Put simply, this is an area where the 2011 GT looks likely to really hold an advantage over the Camaro. The GT will make more than 400hp, just like the Chevy, but the 5.0L the Ford brings to the party is also bringing a serious improvement in fuel economy over the outgoing 4.6L.

97GT03SVT

Do you think the 5.0 will still run on 87? I have a feeling if it's a DOHC like it's been rumored than we are going to have to up the fuel to premium.

Also, not sure where I heard this but press releases said that the SS Camaro should get better MPG than the current Mustang GT

jsaylor

If the SS bests the current GT I am inclined to believe it will be a token advantage if only because the LS3 is not a fuel sipper in these applications. Of course that still leaves the matter of a 100hp difference to cope with for Ford, which is no small matter. As for premium fuel in the DOHC 5.0, most sources indicate the engine can run on regular unleaded, but I am uncertain as to whether the 400+hp numbers being tossed around are on regular unleaded. Personally I would be surprised if the 400hp+ numbers are being generated on 87 octane and, were I a betting man, my money says the car will be rated at 400+hp on premium with the owners manual indicating that you can use 87 octane in the car but hp and fuel economy will suffer. Just a guess.

m05fastbackGT

Just for the record, when did I ever claim the 2010 GT would outperform the 2010 Camaro SS ?

The bottom line, is I've clearly stated from the very beginning. That when the 400HP 5.0 4v debuts in the 2011 GT. IMHO, the 2011 will then have the advantage, due to the new powertrain, 6spd. tranny, and will hopefully continue to weigh less than the Camaro.

As for the SRA vs. LS pushrod debate is concerned. Ford's SRA, also offers plenty of high-tech advancements as well. Thus putting down more power to the pavement for drag racing applications. Oh and btw: you also cannot swap out gears with an IRS setup either.


Say what you will about the Mustang, but when the 2011 GT arrives. Will just see how superior your Camaro SS, is then. So let's see, 422HP vs. 400HP along with less weight = advantage: Mustang.

As for getting better MPG ? the new 400HP. 5.0 will also be more fuel efficent as well.


That being said, for those who feel the SRA, is so inferior and cannot wait for the GRWD platform to launch in 2014. You can always install a Watts link setup. Problem solved !

DrunkenDragon713

This is to whomever was complaining about using Premium Fuel in the tank rather than regular unleaded. Unleaded here is 3.09 currently (I just fueled up yesterday and that was my receipt says.) whereas Premium is 3.35. That's a .26 difference in price/gallon. Assuming that the 2011 indeed requires Premium and is a 16 gallon tank, the cost difference will be $4.16 if the tank is ran dry. Now, anyone who's complaining about that small of an amount has no business in a mustang... At least a GT. Just my .02.

m05fastbackGT

+1 Pat

97GT03SVT

Well none is this matters right now. This is all speculation, we should have the performance numbers for the Camaro SS in a few months. As for the 5.0 who really knows for certain when and if it comes out or how much power it will make. For all we know the 5.0 could be delayed further it wouldn't be the first time in automotive history.

I guess we are going to have to agree to disagree on the SRA vs IRS debate. The advantage of swapping out gears in the SRA means nothing to me, as far as putting down power i'm sure the Camaro will not have a problem. Since GM has been doing an excellent job with Corvettes for decades, an IRS in a powerful V8 is something they should handle well.

The thing I find so curious is that you seem certain that the 5.0 11' Mustang will have better MPG and be faster. These are pretty bold statements considering that the whole 5.0 thing is just speculation at this point. Will Ford make the 5.0? Probably but I think some are getting ahead of themselves claiming what it will do.

As far as i'm concerned i'm going with what I do know, the SS Camaro is a 422HP car that was built to beat the Mustang, pure and simple. Though I am not a fan of the car's looks I do have to give credit to GM for pulling out all the stops to make this (thus far) the most complete of the current new gen muscle cars. Though it costs more than the Mustang GT, (admittedly probably more than the more powerful upcoming 10' GT) and about the same as the mid level R/T Challenger it will easily out-perform both. Actually only the GT500 should be faster, as this car should dust the SRT8 Challenger for about 10 grand less.

I'm not planning on buying a Camaro, but it will be the best overall performance car of the three (it usually has been). Either way i'm going to sit back and watch how these cars actually perform in the real world and drive an example of each before I consider buying one. I still think the Mustang will be the more complete car hitting all those small details that the competition has usually failed to do(i'm already loving the new interior).

97GT03SVT

I wasn't complaining just curious if the new 5.0 required premium or regular.

sharpie

"As for the SRA vs. LS pushrod debate is concerned. Ford's SRA, also offers plenty of high-tech advancements as well. Thus putting down more power to the pavement for drag racing applications. Oh and btw: you also cannot swap out gears with an IRS setup either."



You can't swap out gears with an IRS???? Am I missing something here??

jsaylor

We don't have hard and fast numbers yet, but we do know that the 5.0L is absolutely coming. Windsor is well into the changeover to produce this engine, and that is well beyond the point of no return.

You know, I'm the exact opposite. I was very interested to see what the Camaro SS was going to be early on, but the truth is they have made the thing into a whale and I just don't think it will be overly impressive compared to a notably lighter car which makes similar power (2011 Mustang GT) The Camaro is coming in heavy and thirsty at a time when you don't want to be either.

I think it will be too....for about a year.

I agree but for one minor quibble. I think the 2011 Mustang could prove to be the best ponycar in every respect but ride isolation. Time will tell.

Dave07997S

For those of you that are ever on SVTPerformance know of FourCam330, he is really in the know as far as the powertrains that Ford is coming out with. According to him the 5.0L 4V for 2011 will make 400hp on 87 octane. Later versions of this engine will also have DI (Direct Injection) with an even higher horsepower rating along with better fuel economy. Think of what a tune will do now for 91 or better octane.

Now I know this is all heresay, but FourCam has been right on the money everytime it counted.

Dave

Dave07997S

Why do you say this? This is simply not true. Tell that to all the owners of 99,01 and 03-04 SVT Mustang owners. Not to mention I changed gears in my 04 BMW E46 M3 with 4.10 BMW Motorsport gearing, a car that is equipped with an IRS. Even in my current ride a 07 997S I can change gears...just so **** expensive you say forget about it as the tranny has to be pulled.

Dave