What's the BFD with IRS?
10/13/08, 11:31 PM
#181
Legacy TMS Member
If Ford does indeed have a 400hp 5.0 in the wings and can get it into the car with an M6 at around 3600 lbs or less with a sub 30k entry price, it will have one.
10/14/08, 08:02 AM
#182
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X-Plan was good and we do it all the time. I encourage people to get X-Plan pin numbers if they search for one online. As for the Camaro, just realize, that Chevy dealers are giving away pretty much every car they sell. This car, they will try and get every last dime for each one the dealers get. They are doing that, to get money back into their dealerships, which, for a good percentage of them are losing money. Your argument doesn't hold water, as the KRs are still selling over over MSRP in some markets. Just down the road from us, a competing Ford dealer sold their KR for $25K over list. So the market isn't slowing people down from buying this car.
10/14/08, 08:48 AM
#183
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X-Plan was good and we do it all the time. I encourage people to get X-Plan pin numbers if they search for one online. As for the Camaro, just realize, that Chevy dealers are giving away pretty much every car they sell. This car, they will try and get every last dime for each one the dealers get. They are doing that, to get money back into their dealerships, which, for a good percentage of them are losing money. Your argument doesn't hold water, as the KRs are still selling over over MSRP in some markets. Just down the road from us, a competing Ford dealer sold their KR for $25K over list. So the market isn't slowing people down from buying this car.
I will ask my buddy, who works at a local GM dealer, what type of price I can get.
10/14/08, 09:10 AM
#185
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Why does everyone insist on saying "for the same money as a Bullitt, you can get a SS Camaro"? I know what it says on paper, but go walk into a Chevy dealer and try to buy one at MSRP? You though the markups were bad on the regular GTs back in fall of 2004, when the S-197s came out, this is gonna make them look tame!!! Those Chevy dealers have been salivating for these for years and have been licking their chops at the money to be made on them with the ADMs (that will be there on 80% of the cars)! I know I'm not alone thinking this.
I personally don't look at ADMs when comparing cars, the fact is the Camaro is serious competition and the Ford die-hards need to realize and recognize this. Others have pointed out if you do your homework MSRP can be had. Also keep in mind unlike the Bullitt and GT500 (which both had ADMs at launch) the Camaro SS is a regular production model and dealers can't use the bogus "limited availability" line on you. Until I am proven otherwise I will continue to feel that the SS Camaro is a better bang for the buck than the Mustang GT. I just wish I could get used to the Camaro's styling that I am not a fan of.
The Camaro SS has more HP, and IRS, 6 speed AT/MT, option 20'+ wheels, better MPG, and for not much more than a GT Mustang. Don't get me wrong I'd still prefer the Mustang due to a long time love of Mustangs but even I admit, the Camaro is the better deal for the money.
10/14/08, 10:12 AM
#186
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Please, that's a false argument.
Ford is in business to make money and must compete against every other manufacturer in the world. It would be like one of the major electronics companies deciding that they were going to go back to building black & white tube televisions with only 13 channels and a rotary dial because it somehow "made sense for them."
Competition drives this marketplace. Ford chose to ignore it for many years which is why they are in the predicament in which they now find themselves. IRS is one cost-cutting, profit-making decision among several (also including focusing on trucks and ignoring cars for the past several years) which has almost led them to the brink of extinction.
Ford is in business to make money and must compete against every other manufacturer in the world. It would be like one of the major electronics companies deciding that they were going to go back to building black & white tube televisions with only 13 channels and a rotary dial because it somehow "made sense for them."
Competition drives this marketplace. Ford chose to ignore it for many years which is why they are in the predicament in which they now find themselves. IRS is one cost-cutting, profit-making decision among several (also including focusing on trucks and ignoring cars for the past several years) which has almost led them to the brink of extinction.
Lets look at your ridiculous TV analogy. Lets change it instead to say that the electronics company simply continue to produce LCD tvs with 720p resolution instead of going all out with 1080i or p or whatever is the latest and greatest. Are they still selling tvs? Yes they are and I would bet more than the most expensive higher resolution, better technology tvs. Why? Because people, most common folk, are not into the high tech end all, be all that you insist that they are(ie IRS). Not every mustang purchaser reads Motor Trend or C & D and says "wow, they say the mustang is crap because it has a SRA instead of IRS. I'm going to get a Camaro instead, even though it cost more." No they are going to test drive one and say, "wow, this handled pretty good and I like it." Have you ever heard of the 80/10/10 rule? It says 10% will, 10% wont and 80% might. Ford is concentrating on the 80% that might, just like ANY smart business will.
Ford concentrated on trucks because that is what sold, not cars. No one saw what was going to happen with gas prices in the last year, not even the import makers. Why has Toyota come out with The tundra, sequoia, and other SUV offerings? Because they wanted to compete finally. They previously built only cars, because thats all they knew how to do, not because of foresight. Look at Kia and Hyundai too. They have come out with all new SUVs like the Borrego and the Veracruz and all new Santa Fe and Sorento. They just nixed plans for a truck plant in the beginning of this year. For years Honda,Toyota, Nissan, mistubishi dealers complained about not being able to offer what americans wanted. But you think they had foresight?
Dont believe everything you hear in the media. Just because its ok to bash the Big 3 nationally instead of embrace what we do here in this country, doesnt mean its right.All car sales have been down this year, but all you hear about is the Big 3 losing out. Toyota was down 32% compared to Ford at 34% for September. Honda was down 24%. All I heard from the national media though was how GM and Ford sucked.
10/14/08, 11:07 AM
#187
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GM and Ford will have a really tough road ahead to profitability.
10/14/08, 11:22 AM
#188
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In your post, you forget to mention the bad business decisions that have led Ford & GM to this point. Toyota and Honda are better equipped to handle the economic downturn because of their respective business models. Ford and GM are dinosaurs and with that comes huge legacy costs.
GM and Ford will have a really tough road ahead to profitability.
GM and Ford will have a really tough road ahead to profitability.
10/14/08, 11:41 AM
#189
Not speaking for Max, but how about Uncle Jack's decisions to purchasing everything under the sun and try to diversify FMC into the GE of the auto world and subsequent lack of investment into FMC itself . . . .
10/14/08, 12:25 PM
#190
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Yeah, how stupid of GM and Ford to have been in business long enough to actually have a huge number of retirees and promising them benefits! They should have just worked those people to death like Toyota does to some of their workers. Brilliant! No Legacy costs!
Still waiting.
10/14/08, 03:16 PM
#192
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Wheres the competition? What are you comparing to the mustang? A car that just released pricing and wont be available for a few months yet? There has been no competition for years now and Ford has OWNED the market. Will that change now that the challenger is available in an R/T package, as well as the camaro finally here? You betcha it will, but right now Ford is making money on paid for technology.
Lets look at your ridiculous TV analogy. Lets change it instead to say that the electronics company simply continue to produce LCD tvs with 720p resolution instead of going all out with 1080i or p or whatever is the latest and greatest. Are they still selling tvs? Yes they are and I would bet more than the most expensive higher resolution, better technology tvs. Why? Because people, most common folk, are not into the high tech end all, be all that you insist that they are(ie IRS). Not every mustang purchaser reads Motor Trend or C & D and says "wow, they say the mustang is crap because it has a SRA instead of IRS. I'm going to get a Camaro instead, even though it cost more." No they are going to test drive one and say, "wow, this handled pretty good and I like it." Have you ever heard of the 80/10/10 rule? It says 10% will, 10% wont and 80% might. Ford is concentrating on the 80% that might, just like ANY smart business will.
Ford concentrated on trucks because that is what sold, not cars. No one saw what was going to happen with gas prices in the last year, not even the import makers. Why has Toyota come out with The tundra, sequoia, and other SUV offerings? Because they wanted to compete finally. They previously built only cars, because thats all they knew how to do, not because of foresight. Look at Kia and Hyundai too. They have come out with all new SUVs like the Borrego and the Veracruz and all new Santa Fe and Sorento. They just nixed plans for a truck plant in the beginning of this year. For years Honda,Toyota, Nissan, mistubishi dealers complained about not being able to offer what americans wanted. But you think they had foresight? Dont believe everything you hear in the media. Just because its ok to bash the Big 3 nationally instead of embrace what we do here in this country, doesnt mean its right.
All car sales have been down this year, but all you hear about is the Big 3 losing out. Toyota was down 32% compared to Ford at 34% for September. Honda was down 24%. All I heard from the national media though was how GM and Ford sucked.
Lets look at your ridiculous TV analogy. Lets change it instead to say that the electronics company simply continue to produce LCD tvs with 720p resolution instead of going all out with 1080i or p or whatever is the latest and greatest. Are they still selling tvs? Yes they are and I would bet more than the most expensive higher resolution, better technology tvs. Why? Because people, most common folk, are not into the high tech end all, be all that you insist that they are(ie IRS). Not every mustang purchaser reads Motor Trend or C & D and says "wow, they say the mustang is crap because it has a SRA instead of IRS. I'm going to get a Camaro instead, even though it cost more." No they are going to test drive one and say, "wow, this handled pretty good and I like it." Have you ever heard of the 80/10/10 rule? It says 10% will, 10% wont and 80% might. Ford is concentrating on the 80% that might, just like ANY smart business will.
Ford concentrated on trucks because that is what sold, not cars. No one saw what was going to happen with gas prices in the last year, not even the import makers. Why has Toyota come out with The tundra, sequoia, and other SUV offerings? Because they wanted to compete finally. They previously built only cars, because thats all they knew how to do, not because of foresight. Look at Kia and Hyundai too. They have come out with all new SUVs like the Borrego and the Veracruz and all new Santa Fe and Sorento. They just nixed plans for a truck plant in the beginning of this year. For years Honda,Toyota, Nissan, mistubishi dealers complained about not being able to offer what americans wanted. But you think they had foresight?
Dont believe everything you hear in the media. Just because its ok to bash the Big 3 nationally instead of embrace what we do here in this country, doesnt mean its right.All car sales have been down this year, but all you hear about is the Big 3 losing out. Toyota was down 32% compared to Ford at 34% for September. Honda was down 24%. All I heard from the national media though was how GM and Ford sucked.
10/14/08, 03:20 PM
#193
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What makes you think that Ford won't have ADMs on the 10' model? With the economy being what it is I doubt these ADMs will last very long anyhow. In my area Challengers that just hit market are selling at MSRP. Even Chevy's Z06 sold at MSRP a couple months after launch, so for the GM haters don't think they will offer higher ADMs. Ford is still the king of ADMs with it's GT500 launch.
I personally don't look at ADMs when comparing cars, the fact is the Camaro is serious competition and the Ford die-hards need to realize and recognize this. Others have pointed out if you do your homework MSRP can be had. Also keep in mind unlike the Bullitt and GT500 (which both had ADMs at launch) the Camaro SS is a regular production model and dealers can't use the bogus "limited availability" line on you. Until I am proven otherwise I will continue to feel that the SS Camaro is a better bang for the buck than the Mustang GT. I just wish I could get used to the Camaro's styling that I am not a fan of.
The Camaro SS has more HP, and IRS, 6 speed AT/MT, option 20'+ wheels, better MPG, and for not much more than a GT Mustang. Don't get me wrong I'd still prefer the Mustang due to a long time love of Mustangs but even I admit, the Camaro is the better deal for the money.
I personally don't look at ADMs when comparing cars, the fact is the Camaro is serious competition and the Ford die-hards need to realize and recognize this. Others have pointed out if you do your homework MSRP can be had. Also keep in mind unlike the Bullitt and GT500 (which both had ADMs at launch) the Camaro SS is a regular production model and dealers can't use the bogus "limited availability" line on you. Until I am proven otherwise I will continue to feel that the SS Camaro is a better bang for the buck than the Mustang GT. I just wish I could get used to the Camaro's styling that I am not a fan of.
The Camaro SS has more HP, and IRS, 6 speed AT/MT, option 20'+ wheels, better MPG, and for not much more than a GT Mustang. Don't get me wrong I'd still prefer the Mustang due to a long time love of Mustangs but even I admit, the Camaro is the better deal for the money.
Also, when you said, you don't look at ADMs when comparing cars? Well, in regards to availability and true "street pricing", you have to. Walk into a Ford dealer, and buy a Bullitt. Would get one for a few hundred over invoice, or X-Plan with a PIN. Now, try the same at the majority of Chevy dealers for a Camaro. Waiting list, and over MSRP. When you say that Chevy dealers can't use the line of "limited availibility" for the reason to not mark them up, do you at all remember 2004, when the S-197 came out? Regular GTs were going for as much as $10,000 over list in my area (we soild all ours at MSRP, as we are a small dealer, while the big guys, 5K-10K over), and the GTs were the normal production cars as well. But they still got ADMs. Plus you know that the F-Body fanboys are waiting for this car, and supply probably won't keep up with demand for a while, hence markups! Its gonna happen, just how much over and how many dealers will do it, is the question.
And lastly, I admit too that the Camaro is a great value. I just don't like the styling at all (and I know I'm not alone on this), nor do I like the fact I couldn't get a nav system in it, if I were looking into one. That is a BIG letdown. GM is making you subscribe to OnStar for navigation purposes.
Last edited by 05fordgt; 10/14/08 at 03:37 PM.
10/14/08, 03:35 PM
#194
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Wheres the competition? What are you comparing to the mustang? A car that just released pricing and wont be available for a few months yet? There has been no competition for years now and Ford has OWNED the market. Will that change now that the challenger is available in an R/T package, as well as the camaro finally here? You betcha it will, but right now Ford is making money on paid for technology.
Lets look at your ridiculous TV analogy. Lets change it instead to say that the electronics company simply continue to produce LCD tvs with 720p resolution instead of going all out with 1080i or p or whatever is the latest and greatest. Are they still selling tvs? Yes they are and I would bet more than the most expensive higher resolution, better technology tvs. Why? Because people, most common folk, are not into the high tech end all, be all that you insist that they are(ie IRS). Not every mustang purchaser reads Motor Trend or C & D and says "wow, they say the mustang is crap because it has a SRA instead of IRS. I'm going to get a Camaro instead, even though it cost more." No they are going to test drive one and say, "wow, this handled pretty good and I like it." Have you ever heard of the 80/10/10 rule? It says 10% will, 10% wont and 80% might. Ford is concentrating on the 80% that might, just like ANY smart business will.
Ford concentrated on trucks because that is what sold, not cars. No one saw what was going to happen with gas prices in the last year, not even the import makers. Why has Toyota come out with The tundra, sequoia, and other SUV offerings? Because they wanted to compete finally. They previously built only cars, because thats all they knew how to do, not because of foresight. Look at Kia and Hyundai too. They have come out with all new SUVs like the Borrego and the Veracruz and all new Santa Fe and Sorento. They just nixed plans for a truck plant in the beginning of this year. For years Honda,Toyota, Nissan, mistubishi dealers complained about not being able to offer what americans wanted. But you think they had foresight? Dont believe everything you hear in the media. Just because its ok to bash the Big 3 nationally instead of embrace what we do here in this country, doesnt mean its right.
All car sales have been down this year, but all you hear about is the Big 3 losing out. Toyota was down 32% compared to Ford at 34% for September. Honda was down 24%. All I heard from the national media though was how GM and Ford sucked.
Lets look at your ridiculous TV analogy. Lets change it instead to say that the electronics company simply continue to produce LCD tvs with 720p resolution instead of going all out with 1080i or p or whatever is the latest and greatest. Are they still selling tvs? Yes they are and I would bet more than the most expensive higher resolution, better technology tvs. Why? Because people, most common folk, are not into the high tech end all, be all that you insist that they are(ie IRS). Not every mustang purchaser reads Motor Trend or C & D and says "wow, they say the mustang is crap because it has a SRA instead of IRS. I'm going to get a Camaro instead, even though it cost more." No they are going to test drive one and say, "wow, this handled pretty good and I like it." Have you ever heard of the 80/10/10 rule? It says 10% will, 10% wont and 80% might. Ford is concentrating on the 80% that might, just like ANY smart business will.
Ford concentrated on trucks because that is what sold, not cars. No one saw what was going to happen with gas prices in the last year, not even the import makers. Why has Toyota come out with The tundra, sequoia, and other SUV offerings? Because they wanted to compete finally. They previously built only cars, because thats all they knew how to do, not because of foresight. Look at Kia and Hyundai too. They have come out with all new SUVs like the Borrego and the Veracruz and all new Santa Fe and Sorento. They just nixed plans for a truck plant in the beginning of this year. For years Honda,Toyota, Nissan, mistubishi dealers complained about not being able to offer what americans wanted. But you think they had foresight?
Dont believe everything you hear in the media. Just because its ok to bash the Big 3 nationally instead of embrace what we do here in this country, doesnt mean its right.All car sales have been down this year, but all you hear about is the Big 3 losing out. Toyota was down 32% compared to Ford at 34% for September. Honda was down 24%. All I heard from the national media though was how GM and Ford sucked.
10/14/08, 04:01 PM
#195
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Blaming the national news media for Ford and GM's myopic business models and failure to monitor global trends is what's ridiculous. So is assuming - incorrectly, I might add - that manufacturers like Toyota don't know how to build trucks. Go check their history.
And don't even get me started with Toyota and their trucks? Nice laundry list of recalls for the new Tundra when it came out. Especially liked the one for the tailgates that ripped and Toyota said not to use them for loading anything heavy.
See the link below if you don't believe me. Toyota Tundra Tailgate Woes!!
I see this slant everyday. People come in, cross-shopping a Fusion vs an Accord vs a Camry. They automatically assume the Camry is superior, but after a drive in the Fusion, they say the car is nicer than the news lets on. Ford's cars are better than I thought. I ask them why they say this, and they say, the media mentiones how bad Ford is doing, so they automatically assume their cars aren't any good, and not worth the time to check out. I have a good customer who gave his Accord (a 2005) to his son, when he got his license, and bought a Fusion. He stopped in and told he he loves it! Way better than he would have guessed. Thats what I like to hear.
10/14/08, 04:55 PM
#196
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Do you at all read the newspaper, or watch it? Toyota DID lose 32% but I NEVER saw it broadcasted anywhere. And if it was aired on the news, it wasn't anywhere nearly as much as Ford and GM's troubles were broadcasted! If you don't believe the news skews this, you got blinders on!
And don't even get me started with Toyota and their trucks? Nice laundry list of recalls for the new Tundra when it came out. Especially liked the one for the tailgates that ripped and Toyota said not to use them for loading anything heavy. See the link below if you don't believe me.
Toyota Tundra Tailgate Woes!!
I see this slant everyday. People come in, cross-shopping a Fusion vs an Accord vs a Camry. They automatically assume the Camry is superior, but after a drive in the Fusion, they say the car is nicer than the news lets on. Ford's cars are better than I thought. I ask them why they say this, and they say, the media mentiones how bad Ford is doing, so they automatically assume their cars aren't any good, and not worth the time to check out. I have a good customer who gave his Accord (a 2005) to his son, when he got his license, and bought a Fusion. He stopped in and told he he loves it! Way better than he would have guessed. Thats what I like to hear.
And don't even get me started with Toyota and their trucks? Nice laundry list of recalls for the new Tundra when it came out. Especially liked the one for the tailgates that ripped and Toyota said not to use them for loading anything heavy.
See the link below if you don't believe me. Toyota Tundra Tailgate Woes!!
I see this slant everyday. People come in, cross-shopping a Fusion vs an Accord vs a Camry. They automatically assume the Camry is superior, but after a drive in the Fusion, they say the car is nicer than the news lets on. Ford's cars are better than I thought. I ask them why they say this, and they say, the media mentiones how bad Ford is doing, so they automatically assume their cars aren't any good, and not worth the time to check out. I have a good customer who gave his Accord (a 2005) to his son, when he got his license, and bought a Fusion. He stopped in and told he he loves it! Way better than he would have guessed. Thats what I like to hear.
10/14/08, 04:55 PM
#197
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Hey SVT, where did I mention anywhere in my post about the 2010? I was talking about the Bullitt vs the Camaro, in regards to pricing.
Also, when you said, you don't look at ADMs when comparing cars? Well, in regards to availability and true "street pricing", you have to. Walk into a Ford dealer, and buy a Bullitt. Would get one for a few hundred over invoice, or X-Plan with a PIN. Now, try the same at the majority of Chevy dealers for a Camaro. Waiting list, and over MSRP. When you say that Chevy dealers can't use the line of "limited availibility" for the reason to not mark them up, do you at all remember 2004, when the S-197 came out? Regular GTs were going for as much as $10,000 over list in my area (we soild all ours at MSRP, as we are a small dealer, while the big guys, 5K-10K over), and the GTs were the normal production cars as well. But they still got ADMs. Plus you know that the F-Body fanboys are waiting for this car, and supply probably won't keep up with demand for a while, hence markups! Its gonna happen, just how much over and how many dealers will do it, is the question.
And lastly, I admit too that the Camaro is a great value. I just don't like the styling at all (and I know I'm not alone on this), nor do I like the fact I couldn't get a nav system in it, if I were looking into one. That is a BIG letdown. GM is making you subscribe to OnStar for navigation purposes.
Also, when you said, you don't look at ADMs when comparing cars? Well, in regards to availability and true "street pricing", you have to. Walk into a Ford dealer, and buy a Bullitt. Would get one for a few hundred over invoice, or X-Plan with a PIN. Now, try the same at the majority of Chevy dealers for a Camaro. Waiting list, and over MSRP. When you say that Chevy dealers can't use the line of "limited availibility" for the reason to not mark them up, do you at all remember 2004, when the S-197 came out? Regular GTs were going for as much as $10,000 over list in my area (we soild all ours at MSRP, as we are a small dealer, while the big guys, 5K-10K over), and the GTs were the normal production cars as well. But they still got ADMs. Plus you know that the F-Body fanboys are waiting for this car, and supply probably won't keep up with demand for a while, hence markups! Its gonna happen, just how much over and how many dealers will do it, is the question.
And lastly, I admit too that the Camaro is a great value. I just don't like the styling at all (and I know I'm not alone on this), nor do I like the fact I couldn't get a nav system in it, if I were looking into one. That is a BIG letdown. GM is making you subscribe to OnStar for navigation purposes.
I agree there will be people paying crazy ADMs, but not everyone is that foolish. Lets put it this way would you admit that a base SS Camaro was a better bang for the buck compared to the Bullitt if they could both be had at MSRP? I know it's a matter of opinion but I like the fact that Chevy offers a high tech/power car without all the fluff (leather, nav, sterio,....) Though I like the extra goodies I'd rather have IRS, 6 speed and of course 422 hp in stock trim. I agree with you in terms of appearance I dislike the ugly interior and would judge the outside as cool, yet the worst looking of the three 21st century muscle cars.
I guess we will have to agree to disagree with the ADM issue. The dealer isn't forcing the buyer to pay above MSRP. The consumer has the right to wait it out and in most cases supply usually catches up to demand.
10/14/08, 04:58 PM
#198
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Blaming the national news media for Ford and GM's myopic business models and failure to monitor global trends is what's ridiculous. So is assuming - incorrectly, I might add - that manufacturers like Toyota don't know how to build trucks. Go check their history.
Dont think that I have only worked at a domestic dealer either. But you have been drinking the kool aid my friend.
10/14/08, 05:06 PM
#199
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Do you at all read the newspaper, or watch it? Toyota DID lose 32% but I NEVER saw it broadcasted anywhere. And if it was aired on the news, it wasn't anywhere nearly as much as Ford and GM's troubles were broadcasted! If you don't believe the news skews this, you got blinders on!
And don't even get me started with Toyota and their trucks? Nice laundry list of recalls for the new Tundra when it came out. Especially liked the one for the tailgates that ripped and Toyota said not to use them for loading anything heavy. See the link below if you don't believe me.
Toyota Tundra Tailgate Woes!!
I see this slant everyday. People come in, cross-shopping a Fusion vs an Accord vs a Camry. They automatically assume the Camry is superior, but after a drive in the Fusion, they say the car is nicer than the news lets on. Ford's cars are better than I thought. I ask them why they say this, and they say, the media mentiones how bad Ford is doing, so they automatically assume their cars aren't any good, and not worth the time to check out. I have a good customer who gave his Accord (a 2005) to his son, when he got his license, and bought a Fusion. He stopped in and told he he loves it! Way better than he would have guessed. Thats what I like to hear.
And don't even get me started with Toyota and their trucks? Nice laundry list of recalls for the new Tundra when it came out. Especially liked the one for the tailgates that ripped and Toyota said not to use them for loading anything heavy.
See the link below if you don't believe me. Toyota Tundra Tailgate Woes!!
I see this slant everyday. People come in, cross-shopping a Fusion vs an Accord vs a Camry. They automatically assume the Camry is superior, but after a drive in the Fusion, they say the car is nicer than the news lets on. Ford's cars are better than I thought. I ask them why they say this, and they say, the media mentiones how bad Ford is doing, so they automatically assume their cars aren't any good, and not worth the time to check out. I have a good customer who gave his Accord (a 2005) to his son, when he got his license, and bought a Fusion. He stopped in and told he he loves it! Way better than he would have guessed. Thats what I like to hear.
This is so true about the slant that we see towards imports. Especially in the last few years. Sure it was true before that, toyota made a better vehicle, but lately GM and Ford have made vehicles that were in some case superior to what you could find on Toyota's lot or even Honda's.
Putting all their eggs in one basket in a fluctuating global economy just shows how insular Ford and GM's North American leadership was.
Fortunately, Alan Mulally "gets" it...even if others don't. Hopefully the company can stay solvent long enough for his plans to be fully implemented.
10/14/08, 05:08 PM
#200
Closet American
Join Date: July 17, 2005
Location: Vancouver, BC (Hollywood North)
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You obviously dont work in the car business and have no real understanding of how it works. Toyota makes a great tacoma I wont dog that, but the Tundra plain sucks. Reliability, gas mileage, capability, none of it is close to what GM or Ford offers.
Dont think that I have only worked at a domestic dealer either.
Dont think that I have only worked at a domestic dealer either.