What's the BFD with IRS?
10/12/08, 10:40 AM
#161
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Sorry Dave, but the reason most people buy a mustang is because its cheaper than other offerings out there. I'm NOT paying close to $40,000 for a mustang! If I had $40k to spend I could easily pony up another $15k for a M3 or just get a 135. Everyone here that wants IRS thinks that everyone drives on the roads like you do. I dont care if the IRS does drive better, the SRA is adequate for daily driving and ALL normal driving situations. If I need it to handle better than it does, I can modify it with either a Watts link or other aftermarket items. If it still doesnt handle good enough, I didnt buy the right car! Dont FORCE me to buy something I dont need because you want something to do a better job than what its designed to be. IMO, if you NEED the IRS, look at vehicles that have typically in the past come with them already. The mustang has always been a mass market vehicle and by putting in the IRS, I believe you will go too far up the ladder for a lot of people, whether they cant afford it or not. Nothing personal, just my rant.
Dave
10/12/08, 02:52 PM
#162
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The only time I would even consider spending close to $40K on a Stang that couldn't be bought for less and brought up to the higher ratings of GT500 and such for cheap would be a SE like Mach 1 or Boss 302. That would be the ONLY time. Otherwise, all the rest of the SE and factorly blah blah blah can be put on a more base model for cheaper than buying the SE outright. As for the SRA vs IRS, I'm still middle of the fence on it. If it's there to be had, I'd take it, simply for the general increase in ride quality, otherwise, it's still a Mustang and a darn good one at that, with or without IRS.
10/13/08, 07:36 AM
#163
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As others have mentioned, IRS is not "too far up the ladder", since every other car in the world uses it. Using that analogy, the Mustang isn't even ON the ladder. Fact is, you're not going to see this debate on the forums of other performance cars. Why? Because their cars don't use SRA anymore.
I'd love to substitute the words IRS and SRA for fuel injection and carburetor, and then see how this argument ended up. It's like arguing on behalf of leeches and bloodletting in a modern hospital.
I'd love to substitute the words IRS and SRA for fuel injection and carburetor, and then see how this argument ended up. It's like arguing on behalf of leeches and bloodletting in a modern hospital.
Just because other cars use IRS, doenst mean they have it figured out either. Its simply a compromise, just like the SRA is. If Ford could produce an IRS that is effective as an SRA for the same cost, I would take it, but so far, no dice. The likelyhood that I would take my mustang road racing is far less than taking it to the strip. Therefore it is much cheaper for me to modify the SRA to suit my purposes.
10/13/08, 08:53 AM
#164
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Just because everyone else is doing it, doesnt make it the right decision. That sounds like when a parent tells their kid no and they say, "but everyone else is doing it." We are not on any other forums, we are on this one. If I wanted to talk about other performance cars, I would be there.
Just because other cars use IRS, doenst mean they have it figured out either. Its simply a compromise, just like the SRA is. If Ford could produce an IRS that is effective as an SRA for the same cost, I would take it, but so far, no dice. The likelyhood that I would take my mustang road racing is far less than taking it to the strip. Therefore it is much cheaper for me to modify the SRA to suit my purposes.
Just because other cars use IRS, doenst mean they have it figured out either. Its simply a compromise, just like the SRA is. If Ford could produce an IRS that is effective as an SRA for the same cost, I would take it, but so far, no dice. The likelyhood that I would take my mustang road racing is far less than taking it to the strip. Therefore it is much cheaper for me to modify the SRA to suit my purposes.
10/13/08, 09:28 AM
#165
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I do believe it will eventually replace the SRA in the next mustang due to peer pressure, but the SRA does a good enough job now.
10/13/08, 10:21 AM
#166
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10/13/08, 11:53 AM
#169
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10/13/08, 11:55 AM
#170
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And isn't Chevy the only mfg offering a push-rod V8 in a sports car? Are they out of touch with the consumer and competition simply by being unique (or in this case, a holdout to OHC's)?
Look, we're all going to continue to disagree on the merits of SRA vs IRS in our beloved Mustang. Just know that the "everyone else is doing it" argument doesn't work for me, and it's a rather juvenile argument anyway. Even my teenage daughters have given up using that kind of argument on me for everything they want.
Look, we're all going to continue to disagree on the merits of SRA vs IRS in our beloved Mustang. Just know that the "everyone else is doing it" argument doesn't work for me, and it's a rather juvenile argument anyway. Even my teenage daughters have given up using that kind of argument on me for everything they want.
10/13/08, 06:36 PM
#171
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I guess this thread is getting silly here, it won't solve anything. But, to add more fuel to the fire Chevy just released pricing on the new Camaros. The SS Camaro comes equipped with an IRS, 6 speed and a 422HP V8 for a starting price of about $31,000.
How much did people pay for their Bullitt Mustangs? For about the same money GM's Camaro offers a superior performance vehicle.
Bottom line is as far as the IRS debate goes Ford has chosen to let the competition take control of overall performance. If it wasn't for my dislike of the Camaro's overall looks I'd probably be picking one of these up.
How much did people pay for their Bullitt Mustangs? For about the same money GM's Camaro offers a superior performance vehicle.
Bottom line is as far as the IRS debate goes Ford has chosen to let the competition take control of overall performance. If it wasn't for my dislike of the Camaro's overall looks I'd probably be picking one of these up.
10/13/08, 08:10 PM
#172
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But, to add more fuel to the fire Chevy just released pricing on the new Camaros. The SS Camaro comes equipped with an IRS, 6 speed and a 422HP V8 for a starting price of about $31,000.
How much did people pay for their Bullitt Mustangs? For about the same money GM's Camaro offers a superior performance vehicle.
How much did people pay for their Bullitt Mustangs? For about the same money GM's Camaro offers a superior performance vehicle.
10/13/08, 10:20 PM
#173
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Just because everyone else is doing it, doesnt make it the right decision. That sounds like when a parent tells their kid no and they say, "but everyone else is doing it." We are not on any other forums, we are on this one. If I wanted to talk about other performance cars, I would be there.
Ford is in business to make money and must compete against every other manufacturer in the world. It would be like one of the major electronics companies deciding that they were going to go back to building black & white tube televisions with only 13 channels and a rotary dial because it somehow "made sense for them."
Competition drives this marketplace. Ford chose to ignore it for many years which is why they are in the predicament in which they now find themselves. IRS is one cost-cutting, profit-making decision among several (also including focusing on trucks and ignoring cars for the past several years) which has almost led them to the brink of extinction.
10/13/08, 10:24 PM
#174
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See my above post.
10/13/08, 10:49 PM
#175
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Speaking of Market place, the F5 is coming in at around 30k for a base V8 car. In the next few years we'll see how things go. Will Mustang's unsophisticated and low buck approach prove to be appealing or will GMs "superlative" 5th gen be the panacea the market is looking for????
10/13/08, 10:51 PM
#176
THE RED FLASH ------ Master-Moderator
Why does everyone insist on saying "for the same money as a Bullitt, you can get a SS Camaro"? I know what it says on paper, but go walk into a Chevy dealer and try to buy one at MSRP? You though the markups were bad on the regular GTs back in fall of 2004, when the S-197s came out, this is gonna make them look tame!!! Those Chevy dealers have been salivating for these for years and have been licking their chops at the money to be made on them with the ADMs (that will be there on 80% of the cars)! I know I'm not alone thinking this.
Therefore by the time you include options, and up to 5k in dealer markups. You'll more than likely be looking at close to $38-40K for the Camaro 1SS. And for those who want the Camaro 2SS version. Just the starting price alone, is $34,180.00 MSRP. In which once again, does not include available options, nor those dreaded ADM markups.
Another good example, is the 2009 Challenger R/T. Which has a starting price of $30,990.00 or R/T J package for $32,925 MSRP, however I've already discovered that serveral Dodge dealers in my local area have added $5k ADM markups.
That being said, once you walk into your friendly neighborhood Chevy dealer. It's just as Jeff posted, try to buy one at MSRP, and let's just see what really happens.
When it's all said and done, Mustang will continue to remain as the best bang for the buck performance value, hands down !
Last edited by m05fastbackGT; 10/13/08 at 11:01 PM.
10/13/08, 11:04 PM
#177
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I bought my Mustang under the X-plan when 05's were fetching fairly large ADM's. I bet I could walk into my local dealer and buy an SS at sticker with a bit of negotiation. The auto industry is dead right now.
10/13/08, 11:06 PM
#178
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Anyone read C&D's initial review of the V6 Camaro? They praised the Camaro's suspension and chassis. Ford has their work cut out for them. Ford needs to make sure they hit a home run with the 2011!
10/13/08, 11:16 PM
#179
THE RED FLASH ------ Master-Moderator
Jason, let's just say that assuming you could. By the time you add in options, your still going be looking at close to $34-37k anyhow. And that's for the Camaro 1SS. On the other hand, if you wanted the 2SS version. You'll more than likely be looking at close to $38-42k, after options.
