2k7gtcs

I'm good. Thanks for asking.




On topic...

I am really hoping for anything north of 400hp. 405 would be nice. 410 would be great. I also hope for a large torque number with a long flat torque line. I really want the 2011 to be awesome. I'm waiting for the Mach 1 or Boss model from Ford to get my feet wet again.

FordBlueHeart

94gt your info is not correct. I don't have time to explain better, but myself, Jeff and Brian, all whom worked in the car business for quite a while, have hashed this out and explained how it works. Hopefully one of them will have the time.

laserred38

I'm guessing 415!! And then a Boss 429 S.E. with a CAI and tune.

FordBlueHeart

Anything in the 400 range meets my expectations.
I would love to see a Mach 1 as well. I drive my dad's '69 every chance I can. They have a pic of me butt nekid on the back window, I don't know, just chilling out I guess.

94gt

No, your info is not correct and you know it. Dealers do not pay invoice for a car. This is nothing short of absurd. A dealer pays the cost of the car from Ford which is dealer cost. Go to any new car buying guide 101 and this is clearly explained. A great deal on a car is 4% above cost which typically is under invoice.

Example in 2008 I almost bought a GT/CS which retailed for $31,710. The dealer offer was 29,400 firm minus my $500 military discount which Ford would clearly reimburse the dealer for. Invoice on the car was $29,500. That is invoice without holdback. So you are telling me the offer the dealer made had the dealer losing money on the car and selling it at a loss LOL! I don't think so.

Let's detail this further. I have the sheet from the Ford Division on the 2008 Mustangs. Prices listed are Dealer Price(dealer cost, same thing), Dealer invoice with holdback and Suggested Retail(MSRP same)

Okay Mustang GT Dealer Price, Dealer Invoice w/holdback, Suggested retail
Premium Coupe $23,787 $24,898 $27,020

3.55 rear axle $252 $261 $300
HID Headlamps $441 $457 $525
GT/CS Package $1,592 $1,649 $1,895
Anti Theft System $273 $283 $325
GT Appearance Pkg $206 $213 $245
Interior Upgrade Pkg $386 $400 $460
Sirius radio $164 $170 $195
D&D $745 $745 $745

Final Price $27,846, $29,076, $31,710

As you can see even with the firm offer of $29,400 ($100 under invoice) the dealer was still making over $1,500. You can also see the markup on the car from Ford is $3,864. I have run into dealers that claim there is only $1,000 markup on a mustang and that is always good for a laugh. You go to a GT500 and we are talking $5,500 markup.

To put this another way you are telling me all the 2010 GT500's that sold for invoice which is and has been the current price for some time are just breaking even not making any money on them. So essentially Ford is just making them for free and dealers are not making money on the hottest car Ford makes. Are you serious?! You all know there is no way in hell this is true. Common sense alone far outweighs the thought and Ford is in business to make, well you know.

By the way the price guide I have came from this very site. I noticed the very next year the dealer price and invoice columns were blank LOL! I have also done the same type of post at teamshelby.com when dealers claim to be making $150 on a new Shelby GT500 sold barely over invoice. I have yet to get responces back, but when you speak the absolute truth it is hard to contend. I am sure Five Oh Brian mispoke and meant to say dealer price in his qoute as this would be actually what the dealer pays.

stangfoeva

FordBlueHeart

I can understand your confusion and what you think invoice is or isn't. The business has always been like the shell game for that reason. Just don't forget that the dealer may make that much money from ford, but after paying expenses and salespeople the dollar amount is much less than you think.
I worked for a mid size dealer who sold about 100 vehicles per mth. Do the math, its not that lucrative. Not saying they don't make money, just not as much as you think.

94gt

Invoice is invoice, there is no debate. I have no confusion, unless you think invoice is dealer cost which it clearly is not. I am talking profit. Now Profit = revenue minus cost.

Example a dealer sells 10 of the above cars. Revenue = quantity X price. Say they all sold for exactly invoice which is 29,400 X 10 = $294,000 = revenue. Now the price the dealer paid for the car is $27,846 X 10 = $278,460. Say all 10 buyers were in the miltary so they got a $500 rebate. Say it is late in the model year so Ford has $4,000 rebate on the car as well vs. the 0% and they all take the rebate. So now Ford reimburses the dealer $5,000 for the military members and then another $40,000 in rebates. So the dealer now gets check cut for $45,000 from Ford. So here the dealer even selling the cars at invoice is in the green $60,540 for selling 10 cars! Now that sheer profit of $60,540 would be minus dealer expenses. The rebates from Ford essentially changed the price paid for each indvidual car by the dealer from $27,846 to $23,346.

Or in other words if you paid $26,000 for a $30,000 car that included a $4,000 rebate the dealer just sold the car for MSRP as he got the $4,000 back from Ford.

MBK

94gt, I remember the dealer cost level from this site as well. it was back in late 2004 that I found it here.

FordBlueHeart

I agree with everything you said except.....most dealers don't keep the rebates for themselves, they pass it onto the customer. Therefore the dealer doesn't make more money just because it has a rebate. Not only that, but the dealer doesn't get reimbursed immediately for rebates, so they are out on a limb until the check comes in.
Maybe its just because we have been in the biz so long, but when we are talking about selling a car for $100 over invoice, we automatically assume you understand that this price is BEFORE the rebaters are taken off. I'm sure there are unscrupulous dealers who advertise invoice price when really all they are doing is showing a price with the rebates. Again, the shell game.

LateralG

I regretted not stepping up to the Cobra after I bought my Mustang GT. This time, I'm not buying anything until I know the situation with the special editions.

94gt

You are killing me. Let me explain, If I get a $4,000 rebate on the car yes the dealer is keeping the money! I get $4,000 off, the dealer gets a check cut to him for $4,000, YES THE DEALER ALWAYS KEEPS THE MONEY! Ford takes the $4,000 hit. The $4,000 rebate comes off Fords profit not the dealers. The dealer is getting that $4,000 fully reimbursed. You know this if you worked at a dealership. You may not get it instantly, but you know that you will get the rebate from Ford that is guaranteed.

Back to my original statement, if I buy a car for $30,000 with an MSRP of the same value and Ford offers a $4,000 rebate I get a Car for $26,000. The dealer gets $26,000 plus a check cut for $4,000 from Ford. So the dealer just got MSRP for the vehicle.

FordBlueHeart

Again, your first statement is correct except that the dealer pays ford $30,000(a very important fact that you didn't mention) and then gets the $4000 back later. They don't pay $26,000 to ford and then get $4000+$26000 back.
Your 2nd statement simply states that you paid MSRP.
You are right that the rebate has nothing to do with dealership profit. Its an incentive from ford.

Five Oh Brian

I never said that the factory invoice total was a dealer's "cost." I was only pointing out that Ford is raising the invoice total while keeping MSRP flat, thus squeezing the dealer further while giving the public the impression that prices aren't going up.

Dixie_Flatline

Guys, there's three obviously things here:

1) Nobody knows how much the dealers make... because none of us own the dealerships. I've never met a businessman who discloses the sales level incentives and volume sales bonuses the manufacturer or source company hands out, and every business owner has it in their best interest to appear to make as little as possible. I've met the suits that manage the local dealership... they don't get paid on the sale's guy's commission scales.....

On the other hand,

2) Selling cars doesn't take a whole lotta capital investment, it's a piece of land with a crummy building and crappy coffee. None of which are gold plated, so you have to pay your land cost, your labor cost and your soft goods costs (insurance, marketing et cetera). That's pretty much it. Service obviously makes it's own money, why include it?) Sure the lot is filled with new car inventory... but think of the dealership as a warden for that inventory, not the owner. It's not an expensive business if you can sell your first run of inventory and reinvest profits smartly.

3) This thread is lost at sea. Not like it matters... we're not going to know squat for another month anyway. Sigh.

yugoboss

Sounds like you should open a dealership.

YSUsteven

I second that, I want BIG torque numbers! Big torque will also make burnouts easier!!!

karman

Why am I getting the feeling that explaining things to him isn't doing any good?

Five Oh Brian

Sooooooo, I'm still waiting to see if Ford can build an '11 Mustang GT that will keep up with my '07 GT. Oh, and put some real tires on it, too. I just replaced my factory BFG KDWS's (and I've also had Pirelli PZero's and PZero Nero's) and the factory uses very marginal tires. I just put Continental Extreme Contact DWS's on my car (255/45/18) and the grip is infinitely better. Now I don't have to run drag radials on the street to harness all that boost.

Overboost

What tires are the 19" Track Pack GT's coming with? (the 2010?)