zzcoop

That's hot.

karman

Alright, I (for one) am ready to go back to topic...
Since no one knows for sure yet...
I think it would be cool if the coyote was 429HP just beating the Camaro.
Then they could have a "Boss 429" SE

zzcoop

That would be sweet. But if they were to use a Boss 429 style hood scoop, the "Power Dome" would have to go.

Overboost

That would be sweet. 429 hp sounds good to me!

Five Oh Brian

Thanks for the kind words, Phil! Your Bullitt's supercharger install here was one of those memories that'll stay with me a long time. #6333 certainly went to the right guy!

I sure hope our business model never changes. We've been in business in Kent since 1958 (the family's first Ford dealership was opened in 1922 and is still in business). We switched to "one-price" selling in 1993 (no negotiating, just our best price clearly posted up front on every car for sale).

eci mentioned that Ford can't control how dealers price cars or add ADM's (due to franchise laws), and he's right, but perhaps someday all dealers will go to the "one-price" model and ADM's will be gone for good.

Five Oh Brian

Since paying more to get something early hit a nerve with some of you, allow me to share my own experiences on my last two Mustang purchases....

In 2002 I wanted an 03 Mach 1 really bad, but we were sold out before production even started with deposits in hand. Waited, waited, and waited some more. At the end of the model year I was finally able to snag an "extra" that we got ahold of. MSRP was $29,675 for my Mach 1, but with D-plan and rebates at the end of the model year I only paid $23,222 - saving more than $6K on a limited production car. Patience paid off nicely in the form of big savings.

In the fall of 2006 I wanted a new GT very badly. Tried desperately to find a leftover (but new) 2006 GT to get the same killer deal I got on the 03 Mach 1. However, I started looking too late, and there were none even close to what I would accept. So, I ordered a 2007. Still got D-plan, but rebates were scarce. I work in the business and know better, but like eci I knew what I wanted and wasn't willing to wait. My 07 GT had an MSRP of $30,300 and I ended up paying $26,675, saving only about $3600 (vs the $6K+ I saved on the Mach 1).

I could have waited a few months and bought an '07 GT later during the model year. But, I weighed the time vs money factor and my priorities favored paying more to start enjoying that car that much sooner. Sure, I paid a few grand more that way, but I have absolutely no regrets.

There is no right or wrong answer when it comes to how much you pay for a cool new toy. As long as both parties agree and feel good about the transaction price, then our free-market economy is working as designed. Win-win.

Five Oh Brian

Did I mention that I want the 2011 GT to deliver over 400hp from the factory? But, only as long as that doesn't drive up the price of the car beyond the reach of us average working guys!

SuperSugeKnight

I don't think it will drive up the price much more. There's not much room to grow anyways. The 2010's are already close to Camaro prices.

Clino

I think you're absolutely right. For me however, I have never been one of those people who has to have the new thing right away. Even the idea of buying a brand new car to me seems silly in this day and age. It's a huge waste of money, but we all waste money on things that we love, so I understand why people do it. It's not like it's an investment, it's a toy, and we all have our toys whether they're cars, boats, musical instruments or sports equipment etc.

In regards to Mustangs, there are just so many of them around, and so many past models (for far less money) that can give me as much if not more enjoyment than a new one, so unless I'm swimming in money I will probably never buy a new one...let alone pay an ADM on one.

I think basically , it comes down to personality, not to mention our credit culture which has made people think that they should, and can have everything they want RIGHT NOW, however it all comes down to what something is worth to each individual.

Getting back to topic however, I have to admit that I have been one of the 400hp skeptics, but since the V6 anouncement, I realize we are not dealing with the same Ford as in the past. I honestly have been completely shoked by the quality and performance being put out right now and have officially left my expectations open. I can't wait to see what the 5.0 offers becauase whatever it is, I think it's going to be shockingly good.

Overboost

I walked in, test drove, and seriously considered a 2010 GT, then got on here, did my research, and kindly called the dealer and let him know I'd be waiting until 2011, which he appreciated. I didn't want him to feel like I wasted his time, so I let him know that up front. He seemed to know what I did about the 2011 as well, and just agreed with me, not acknowledging that he knew that before I came in. Needless to say, I'm glad I waited and it's anxiously approaching.

Maybe down the road, Ford will adopt the one-price philosophy in their franchise agreements. One can only hope.

eci

One price means the price cannot be reduced without manufacturer global consent. See Saturn. No thanks.

Dixie_Flatline

I agree with you that I seriously doubt Ford's going to raise the price much on the 2011's... but one thing I bet they're going to do is try to clamp down on incentives as much as possible. That does have the same effect as raising prices, but without showing it on the MSRP. We'll see soon though.

Rampant

One price also means no haggling, no feeling you got ripped off, and direct comparisons to the competition. It would also make it easier on the customers, dealerships and sales people as the buying process would be much quicker. And, dealerships would be able to make enough profit on the cars to stay in business which may even lead to better/cheaper service if the dealership didn't have to use them as a profit center as much.

If done right -- say $500 over current invoice pricing across the board, but cars in limited supply can be sold at a markup, or auctioned off over that -- I can't see any downsides.

And, if you are trying to suggest Saturn's demise has anything to do with single pricing (which didn't last all that long IIRC), or that Saturn's prices were high because of single pricing, I would strongly disagree with you on both accounts.

theedge67

Saturn's downfall had nothing to do with single pricing, and everything to do with GM's mismanagement of the brand and it's products. If Saturn would have stuck to it's original sales/marketing/product philosophy it would be thriving now I am sure.

Five Oh Brian

Well, not really and it depends. Saturn worked as you noted, but we're doing it different and not due to some corporate mandate. I work at a one-price store, but what that means here is that each individual car has one-price than anyone can buy it for regardless (kind of like the "buy it now" price at eBay). Doesn't matter what their credit score, cash down, or trade-in is - it's the same price for anyone. We discount each vehicle very deeply upfront and slap that price on the window (and the internet) for the world to see and compare. We do not negotiate price, so it is super easy & quick to get a great deal, buy the car, and be on your way driving it home. To be competitive, we have to have a dang good price upfront lest we lose a sale. We have loss-leader ad specials like any other dealer, and roughly 20-30% of our new vehicles are being advertised below the factory invoice total at any given time, with the rest slightly above the factory invoice total. Rarely do we get close to MSRP, and only on specialty vehicles in short supply (i.e. hybrids and SVT's), but even those are all below MSRP at this point. So, in the sense that we use one-price, the manufacturer does not have to approve anything we do in terms of pricing.

Five Oh Brian

I agree; transaction prices will go up, even though Ford will be trying to hold the line on MSRP. At first glance, an uninformed buyer may see that Ford is wonderful by keeping MSRP the same as (or close to) 2010's. However, those of us in the know realize what is really happening: Fewer rebates and/or incentives will be offered. Plus, Ford will likely raise the invoice total that us dealers pay (so they can cover increased production costs), while keeping MSRP the same (to put on a good public image). So for a dealer to make the same profit as before, the asking price will have to go up, accordingly.

Five Oh Brian

$500 over the invoice total is more than we make on most new vehicle sales. This may seem crazy, but the dealership I work for is currently special ordering any new 2010 Ford, Lincoln, or Mercury for customers for just $99 over the factory invoice total and the customers still get to keep any rebates they qualify for upon delivery of the vehicle. This includes all hybrid models, Taurus SHO, etc. Like Costco, we only survive by selling in huge volumes.

I'm not sure how pricing will pan out for the 2011 Mustangs. It will come down to supply and demand I suppose, but even a 400+ hp GT will be a "regular" production vehicle so they should be under MSRP at most any Ford dealership nationwide when they're released.

FordBlueHeart

Been there, done that....for almost 7 years. Great way to do business IMHO. Pay plan was a farce. Everyone worked the system to make money and then they would change it because we were making too much. Or they hired more salespeople. We were pd on volume incentives.
Hey Brian, some of the "word tracks" you were using earlier were almost verbatim what we were taught too. Wonder if our dealerships were part of the same 20 group?

Overboost

Wouldn't you agree that fewer incentives and still being able to move cars is a good thing? I would think that, if you can sell something at an advertised price vs. having to offer $1000-2000 to sell the same vehicle, that you'd be doing better, or the local economy is doing better as a whole as a result.

Living in metro Detroit, we've got 31 Ford dealers within a 50 or so mile radius. I could (if I felt the need) to drive all over the area to get what I wanted.

Brian, that 'one-price' doesn't factor in any Ford discounts you get, like A/X/Z/D-plan, right?

coffeejolts

Correct. If you qualify for one of the plans, the dealer advertised price goes out the window. You do still get the rebates, though.