It is part of North America.

By United Nations definition and pretty much everyone elses definition.

 

It is part of North America.

By United Nations definition and pretty much everyone elses definition.

Northern America means US and Canada

 

GM isn't stupid. They will price the car correctly.

I might jump ship in the next few years if Ford doesn't step up big time with the Mustang! The LSX series engine is amazing and can make big power N/A. Ford doesn't have an engine that can touch it IMHO. Secondly, GM has more experience performance tuning a chassis and suspension. I think that the Camaros overall dynamics will be much more rewarding for the driver. Lastly, GM has been making huge strides in improving interior quality to match the imports. Sadly, Ford is way behind GM in a lot of categories. I know that this might stir up controversy, but it's the truth!

Like I said, I am happy with my Mustang and plan on keeping it for 2 more years. If Ford doesn't introduce a more refined Mustang with IRS and competitive hp, I am going to look elsewhere.

 

I think maybe if you'd lead with this post I'd have had a better understanding of what you were trying to say. I did misunderstand about your reference to the 7.0L--my bad. And I agree with you, a top-of-the-line Camaro SS with 505-HP at the $50K mark doesn't sound like much of a stretch, especially since there will be a 540-hp Mustang (GT500KR) in the same neighborhood.

I think we'll still have to disagree on the pricing, maybe GM will surprise me, but I don't think you'll see a 400-hp Camaro under $35K. I think the scenario in your last paragraph is more likely. Sharing the chassis and the mill of the G8, it would not surprise me to see a 365-370-hp 6.0 in a new Camaro for $33K. That I can believe.

(PS: ADM it not a Ford thing--its a dealer thing. I'm sure you know that. But if you think there won't be any ADM's at your local Chevy dealer...)

 

Well, if you want to be technical about it, we're both correct. According to the UN, Mexico IS considered part of Central America, as I said before, but I will concede that they consider Central America part of North America proper.

Which is sort of weird, since Latin America is considered to start at Mexico (including the Caribbean) and go all the way south to the southernmost tip of South America.

Ah well.

 

Who are you to blame me for the thread getting off track alone? Though I didn’t mean to hijack a thread like I am being accused of, there really was not a heck of a lot to talk about. The spy shots for the most part confirmed stuff we already know. I was not the only one who thought that the competition of the Mustang was very important concerning the next body style I only defend GM because of your childish lectures that always start with "First of all..." like your some scholar of automotive knowledge. We have gotten off on the wrong foot in the past and it's only you, I had a disagreement with Bt4 and we respect each other's opinions yet, you refuse to respect mine. You make claims that I should not try to speak for everybody, which I don't.... yet you say " nobody gives a rat's a** as to whether or not, it's feasible to offer the base V8 Camaro for 30-33k. Except for yourself." Who made you king to decree what people care about or not? I think your a huge hypocrite and have such an undeniable bias towards the Mustang that anything besides a Ford product is an unworthy vehicle in your mind. I have the right to express my opinions as much as the next guy regardless if you have a problem with it or not. I'm sorry if I don't think that the 05' Mustang GT is the ultimate muscle car.



As far as the thread going off track i'll start a new one concerning the new Mustang along with it's competiton in the upcoming years I apologize to Adrenalin and hope this will remedy the situation

 

??? It's easy to find a Bullitt in that price range. Most are selling at and below MSRP, with many dealers accepting X-plan (the Bullitt is back on x-plan eligibility where it should be) I haven't seen a single Bullitt listed on eBay sell over MSRP, and have seen at least a couple that did sell, go at under MSRP.
I have seen no confirmation of anyone actually paying an ADM on a Bullitt. The only people who might fall for that are those who have done no research and have no Internet access. The Bullitt is no different than a CS/GT, that is a GT Premium coupe with an optional package. It is not in any way like a GT500 as far as packaging and sales go.

 

If that's the case, then how did GM get itelf into so much trouble?

The Camaro has always been a me too product to the original. Yes some aspects of the Camaro will be better, but the Camaro will be priced higher than the Stang because it will be more expensive to manufacture.

 

Who am I ? well to you, a senior member of this website. That's who !

As for my supposed childish lectures are concerned. FYI. I became a Mustang enthusiast, long before you were able to drive.

Although I'm far from being some automotive scholar. I believe that 35+ years of being a car enthusiast, qualifies as having at least some automotive knowledge.

As for my claims about you assuming what others may think. Well once again. I'm not the only one, who's pointed this out.

I personally have nothing against having competition, concerning the next Mustang. My only disagreement, was over the 30-32k pricing for a 400HP. Z-28 in which you previously had mentioned.

You talk about childish lectures. Well my main reason for defending both Ford, and the Mustang. was due to your constant re-hashing of how the Mustang has always been so outperformed by the Camaro. In fact, it was you that began this controversy, way back during the Cougar thread you submitted, shortly after becoming a member of this website.

So don't even attempt to use my so called childish lecture, as an excuse for defending GM. For it was you, who started this entire HP debate from the very beginning.

And just who are you, to claim that people now look upon the current 05+ Mustang as boring. Just because you might, doesn't necessarily mean that everyone else does. For loyal Mustang enthusiasts, aren't going to jump ship onto the Camaro bandwagon anyhow. Their going to await the arrival of the 2010 Mustang.

As for being a hypocrite is concerned. You don't even know what the word means. For I've defended both Ford, and the Mustang from the very start.

Therefore. if that makes me out to be a hypocrite in your eyes. Then so be it. For I personally could care less, what you think.

At least people know who, and what I stand for. As I've said this before, and I'll say it again.

 

May I ask what brings you to this conclusion?

 

My whole prob is you don't respect my opinions I never claimed that ALL people find the 05 Mustang Boring but the auto biz is very fickle. Mustang sales figures also prove this point GM, sure I openly defend GM because I think it's stupid for people who are fans of Ford to bash on GM for their troubles while Ford is in even worse shape. If you disagree on a 400HP Camaro costing 32, so what just disagree no need to try to put others down. You seem so sure that the Camaro is doomed to fail wait and see then we can draw conclusions. I understand gas prices and the economy but there will still be those Chevy and Mopar guys who are willing to shell out the dough and are gonna want their own pony car those are the guys who will buy and they may snag a couple Mustang guys here n there if the car is a better bargain

As far as your expertise it does not seem to stretch much past Ford or the Mustang I don't see whats wrong with seeing and respecting what others have to offer. You create issues where there are none I never have or tried to speak for everyone

"What you stand for" what is this a terror thing? All because i'm a guy who has always owned Mustangs but isnt satisfied with the lineup and am willing to look elsewhere?

When the 05' Mustang came out there were lines of people shelling out 5-8k above sticker for one so if the car looks right it will sell even if it is pricier.

 

Personally, I don't understand all the people around here who are so dismissive of the Camaro. GM has as much chance to succeed with the new Camaro as Ford had with their new Mustang.

If it's attractive, well built, well packaged and priced properly, it has as much chance of survival as any other 2009, two-door high performance coupe out there. And the Camaro - like the Mustang - has the added advantage of being able to play the heritage card, will simultaneously being better able to appeal to new buyers who find its design a bit more contemporary than the 'retro' Mustang.

I wouldn't be at all surprised to see an IRS equipped Camaro hit dealer lots sporting a price point within $400 of the Mustang. 'Course by then, it's likely that Ford will have an IRS equipped 2010 Mustang to compete. And early Camaros will almost certainly be slapped with ADMs.

 

WHOA ! just hold on a minute. I never said, that I didn't respect your opinions Phil. In fact. I was under the impression, that you and I had worked out any past differences, that took place in the Cougar thread.

As for this thread. I was actually being optimistic towards the Camaro, in post # 109.

To be perfectly honest with you. I really don't have anything against you not being satisfied with the Mustang lineup. My only problem with some of your comments, were the constant remarks of how the Mustang has always been so underpowered by the Camaro.

And although I'm fully aware of this. The point is..where does the my car has more HP than yours finally end. I mean Ford could come out with a 7.0 600HP engine tomorrow, but you know as well as I do. That GM is going to come out with something bigger and faster anyway.

So at what point, where does the line finally get drawn.

IMHO I just don't think, that jumping back and forth from whoever offers the car with the most HP at the time.. is the solution. Although you may not agree. The best solution. is modding your current car.

I don't know, perhaps you can afford selling or trading in cars, every few years or so. But I definitely cannot. So I suppose that I really have no other option, but to modify my Stangs.


As for hoping that the Camaro fails. Well you have my sincere apologies, for that wasn't my intention. Nor was it my intention to put you down. As I really have nothing personal against you. The bottom line..was after going back and forth over the GM vs.Ford HP debating. It just finally took it's toll, and as a direct result. I completely lost it. Guess you could say, that I ended up getting burned out. If that makes any sense

In the meantime. I'll completely support, and stand by whatever choice you decide on. Whether it's the 2010 Stang, or 2010 Camaro. As I'm sure both will be very fine cars, in their own right.

 

Following the same design.

 

. . . .

Hey Topnotch, NICE Avatar!!

 

Please don't tie the Focus-aztec into the 10 Mustang...

 

These spy shots are clearly the new Boss 302. I would venture to guess you are looking at an 09. Look at the retro wheels, tailights and tall flat rear deck. Meanwhile, the turn signals you see are a carry over from the slots the 1970 Boss 302 had on the outside of the headlights. The signals are more horizontal in pictures than vertical as you may have seen in some renderings of the new Mustang. See for yourself.

 

The fenders have a bulge next the headlights too. It appears the scoops are there and the slotted scoop theme carries over to the inner area of the headlights. Just for reference, Cervini's managed to put together a new hood and front bumper/grill that borrows the theme of a 1970 Boss 302.

 

It's possible but I believe we might be looking at styling cues that will be across all refreshed Mustangs (or at least some of them).

It is thought there will be a 2010 model year designation with the car being produced sometime in calendar year 2009.

New wheel designs were indicated in some of the popular automotive press articles. The tailights and rear deck would, in my opinion, continue to build on the "heritage theme" of the current design.

I believe someone else posted here that all of the engineering work was focused on getting the refreshed models - V6, GT, SVT (Shelby) V8 - to market first. Anything else would come sometime after that. Perhaps we will see a Boss within 6-12 months after the refreshed S197 is launched.

I am crossing my fingers!

 

I doubt that there will be an 09 Boss 302 (or any other new SE). If there are going to be any 09 SEs we would already have some concrete info that such a model was on the way and guys like Kevin who work at Ford dealers would be seeing the parts in Ford's parts database.