Blue Coupe!!! Spy Shots!!
Legacy TMS Member
Joined: June 18, 2004
Posts: 3,990
Likes: 34
From: Conroe, TX
18,957 350Zs were sold last year, that's not healthy considering the number of Mustangs sold (134,626 ). That's about 14% of the number of Mustang sold.
Shelby GT350 Member
Joined: March 11, 2004
Posts: 2,146
Likes: 1
The Nissan N. America New Bureau web site gives that # but it doesn not spcifiy if it's US sales or N American (+ Canada, Mexico & ??). It is clearly NOT worldwide sales. I'd guess that WW sales are 2x to 3x the N. American #.
The # given for 2006 is 24,634, so sales declined 23% in 2007.
IMHO although the 350Z competes somewhat with the Mustang, it's not a true head to head competitor since it's a 2 seater.
You also have to consider that the starting price of a 350Z is considerably higher than a Mustang, again removing the 350Z from being a true head to head competitor with the Stang.
Also figure into the Nissan equation that they sold 17,794 Infity G coupes in 2007, again not a true head to head Mustang competitor given the G's price point, but I'm sure there is some cross shopping.
The # given for 2006 is 24,634, so sales declined 23% in 2007.
IMHO although the 350Z competes somewhat with the Mustang, it's not a true head to head competitor since it's a 2 seater.
You also have to consider that the starting price of a 350Z is considerably higher than a Mustang, again removing the 350Z from being a true head to head competitor with the Stang.
Also figure into the Nissan equation that they sold 17,794 Infity G coupes in 2007, again not a true head to head Mustang competitor given the G's price point, but I'm sure there is some cross shopping.
Shelby GT350 Member
Joined: March 11, 2004
Posts: 2,146
Likes: 1
How do you define competitively?
It's quite possible that if the Camaro offers a refined & balanced chassis (it will have IRS, remember), that Chevy may price V8 models a bit higher than the Mustang GT, because the Camaro may appeal to the same crowd who would be willing to shell out the money for a Nissan Z-car, but who are looking for a more refined American muscle car that goes a bit beyond what Ford has been willing to offer with the Mustang.
Moreover, there was a lot of talk about taking the Camaro global (i.e. Europe and Australia), which - through economies of scale - not only allows you to create a car a bit more sophisticated than the Mustang, priced accordingly, but would actually demand it.
It's quite possible that if the Camaro offers a refined & balanced chassis (it will have IRS, remember), that Chevy may price V8 models a bit higher than the Mustang GT, because the Camaro may appeal to the same crowd who would be willing to shell out the money for a Nissan Z-car, but who are looking for a more refined American muscle car that goes a bit beyond what Ford has been willing to offer with the Mustang.
Moreover, there was a lot of talk about taking the Camaro global (i.e. Europe and Australia), which - through economies of scale - not only allows you to create a car a bit more sophisticated than the Mustang, priced accordingly, but would actually demand it.
The Mustang has a clear defined market space, the new Camaro does not. The new Camaro seems like it will better the Mustang but at a higher price, limiting Camaro sales wins against the Stang. It may be a bit of a 350X & G35 couple competitor, but if somebody wants a Z or G, wouldn't they buy one and not a Camaro. If if it's fast enough and handles well enough it will compete with the Corvette. Maybe that's the Camaro's demographic, a wanna be Corvette for people who can't affort a Corvette.
The new Camaro will attempt to compete on several fronts while never having a clear battle plan. GM is dreaming if they think they'll sell >100K / year. Maybe the first year they'll approach 100K in sales, but Camaro sales will quickly fade down to the 50K / year level.
Closet American
Joined: July 17, 2005
Posts: 5,851
Likes: 1
From: Vancouver, BC (Hollywood North)
The Nissan N. America New Bureau web site gives that # but it doesn not spcifiy if it's US sales or N American (+ Canada, Mexico & ??). It is clearly NOT worldwide sales. I'd guess that WW sales are 2x to 3x the N. American #.
The # given for 2006 is 24,634, so sales declined 23% in 2007.
IMHO although the 350Z competes somewhat with the Mustang, it's not a true head to head competitor since it's a 2 seater.
You also have to consider that the starting price of a 350Z is considerably higher than a Mustang, again removing the 350Z from being a true head to head competitor with the Stang.
Also figure into the Nissan equation that they sold 17,794 Infity G coupes in 2007, again not a true head to head Mustang competitor given the G's price point, but I'm sure there is some cross shopping.
The # given for 2006 is 24,634, so sales declined 23% in 2007.
IMHO although the 350Z competes somewhat with the Mustang, it's not a true head to head competitor since it's a 2 seater.
You also have to consider that the starting price of a 350Z is considerably higher than a Mustang, again removing the 350Z from being a true head to head competitor with the Stang.
Also figure into the Nissan equation that they sold 17,794 Infity G coupes in 2007, again not a true head to head Mustang competitor given the G's price point, but I'm sure there is some cross shopping.
Mach 1 Member
Joined: February 17, 2004
Posts: 543
Likes: 1
From: Indianapolis, IN
Isn't this the 2010 mustang forums? so wouldn't this be a perfect forum (forum using the real definition, not the internet version) to debate the new mustang and it's potential rivals?
Would it be more appropriate if I started a new thread titling it debate of different 2010 mustang competitors?
I feel that these debates are the purpose of these forums as long as they remain clean and productive.
Again not trying to start trouble, I just want to clarify the comment. This site has been a very educational and positive source of open debate since I joined back in 2004.
Cobra Member
Joined: October 27, 2007
Posts: 1,380
Likes: 0
So there are obviously 3 taillights, separated by two white reverse lights, but design-wise it just doesnt seem logical for the third light which cannot see to be the same shape as the other two that are visible. If the third light were rectangular like the others, it would not follow the "lines" of the car.
Excuse the crudity of my photoshop, but here's what I see, marked by yellow lines.
Excuse the crudity of my photoshop, but here's what I see, marked by yellow lines.
I Have No Life
Joined: May 26, 2004
Posts: 10,605
Likes: 2
John, I mean absolutely no disrespect, but isn't that a little harsh?
Isn't this the 2010 mustang forums? so wouldn't this be a perfect forum (forum using the real definition, not the internet version) to debate the new mustang and it's potential rivals?
Would it be more appropriate if I started a new thread titling it debate of different 2010 mustang competitors?
I feel that these debates are the purpose of these forums as long as they remain clean and productive.
Again not trying to start trouble, I just want to clarify the comment. This site has been a very educational and positive source of open debate since I joined back in 2004.
Isn't this the 2010 mustang forums? so wouldn't this be a perfect forum (forum using the real definition, not the internet version) to debate the new mustang and it's potential rivals?
Would it be more appropriate if I started a new thread titling it debate of different 2010 mustang competitors?
I feel that these debates are the purpose of these forums as long as they remain clean and productive.
Again not trying to start trouble, I just want to clarify the comment. This site has been a very educational and positive source of open debate since I joined back in 2004.
Closet American
Joined: July 17, 2005
Posts: 5,851
Likes: 1
From: Vancouver, BC (Hollywood North)
Since the United Nations classified it as such using their Standard Country and Area Codes Classifications (M49) to determine borders and continental classifications.
SUPERCHARGED RED ROCKET ------------------Master-Moderator
Joined: May 11, 2006
Posts: 10,645
Likes: 2,511
From: Carnegie, PA
I think I was misunderstood a little bit, First try to find a Bullitt for $31,000. Ford needs to step up and control the ADM situation I understand supply and demand but with all these "special edition" Mustangs think we can get one at sticker price by now?
Second, the 7.0 will only be used in the top dog Camaro like the SS to pair up against the GT500. The Z06 makes 505HP with it a far cry from the 400 you thought I said. This should be a hell of a match up though I do expect the SS to cost a tad more and be a tad better performing say 50k for the SS how many people are still paying 75 for a GT500. So to keep things simple and to keep things from staying off track this is all I wanna say
Will the Camaro be as popular as the Mustang? Umm.. maybe for the first year but ultimatley no.
Will there be ADMs for the new Camaro SS or top model, sure but i'm almost posative it wont be as rediculous or as long as the markup on the GT500 (The people buying these cars 20-30k above sticker thinking of the car as a future investment have been watching too much Barret-Jackson)
And most important All i'm saying is that it is at least feasible to make the base V8 Camaro for 30-33k with the 400HP 6.0 LS2 and IRS (Thugh I admit I have also herd rumors of the G8's 365HP V8. I don't think a Camaro for 33k is gonna break the bank for a lot of people because lets face it the Mustang has gotten more expensive every year and it really won't be that far off from the Mustang maybe 2-3k more?
Second, the 7.0 will only be used in the top dog Camaro like the SS to pair up against the GT500. The Z06 makes 505HP with it a far cry from the 400 you thought I said. This should be a hell of a match up though I do expect the SS to cost a tad more and be a tad better performing say 50k for the SS how many people are still paying 75 for a GT500. So to keep things simple and to keep things from staying off track this is all I wanna say
Will the Camaro be as popular as the Mustang? Umm.. maybe for the first year but ultimatley no.
Will there be ADMs for the new Camaro SS or top model, sure but i'm almost posative it wont be as rediculous or as long as the markup on the GT500 (The people buying these cars 20-30k above sticker thinking of the car as a future investment have been watching too much Barret-Jackson)
And most important All i'm saying is that it is at least feasible to make the base V8 Camaro for 30-33k with the 400HP 6.0 LS2 and IRS (Thugh I admit I have also herd rumors of the G8's 365HP V8. I don't think a Camaro for 33k is gonna break the bank for a lot of people because lets face it the Mustang has gotten more expensive every year and it really won't be that far off from the Mustang maybe 2-3k more?
And second. your also the main reason, behind this thread getting way off topic.
And most of all..This is a Mustang website, and not a Camaro or GM site.
That being said. if you wish to continue discussing your Camaro concerns. Then go to either the planet Camaro, or GM website.
Although I can't speak for the other members. I personally am sick and tired of you throwing into everybodys face, about how the Mustang is always so outperformed by the Camaro.
As if were not already fully aware of that. But yet, you continue to constantly bring it up, and make such a big deal out of it.
And yet, you wonder as to why your comments were confronted.
As I've mentioned before. If getting smoked, really bothers you that much. Then find yourself a good aftermarket vendor, purchase whatever parts may be necessary to modify your Stang. Otherwise you can continue playing the back and forth HP shell game, until the end of time itself.
Make no mistake about it..the cycle will never end, as GM will always want to top Ford, no matter what size engine they come out with !
Dethroned Nascar Guru
Joined: January 30, 2004
Posts: 10,059
Likes: 2
Since the United Nations classified it as such using their Standard Country and Area Codes Classifications (M49) to determine borders and continental classifications.
b/ The continent of North America (003) comprises Northern America (021), Caribbean (029), and Central America (013).
SUPERCHARGED RED ROCKET ------------------Master-Moderator
Joined: May 11, 2006
Posts: 10,645
Likes: 2,511
From: Carnegie, PA
I think you will see it. The Mustang will give up too much ground technically to the Camaro and Challenger if it doesn't at least offer IRS as an option.
Besides, it won't add more than $500 or so to the cost of the Mustang, based upon that survey Ford sent around last year. Fact is, Ford is charging bloody close to what an IRS equipped Mustang could sell for right now. It's not that they wanted to save us the cost, it's that they wanted to make more on the cars themselves.
And you're right, the S197 was always designed for IRS.
Thank the beancounters for the pram suspension.
Besides, it won't add more than $500 or so to the cost of the Mustang, based upon that survey Ford sent around last year. Fact is, Ford is charging bloody close to what an IRS equipped Mustang could sell for right now. It's not that they wanted to save us the cost, it's that they wanted to make more on the cars themselves.
And you're right, the S197 was always designed for IRS.
Thank the beancounters for the pram suspension.
Shelby GT350 Member
Joined: March 11, 2004
Posts: 2,146
Likes: 1
This thread was brought back to life when someone brought up how the new Stang will play against its upcoming competition.
I agree that hijacking a hot topic is not good. But I don't see the problem with bringing a dead topic back to life by moving it in a different direction.