2011 5.0 "cammed " idle...w/video
3/19/11, 06:04 AM
#82
GT Member
Join Date: April 11, 2007
Location: Smyrna, Ga
Posts: 138
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
3/22/11, 12:45 PM
#83
I am Shauny Clause
MOTM July 2010 Winner
MOTM July 2010 Winner
Join Date: November 25, 2009
Location: Metro Detroit
Posts: 1,519
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I come from a racing background and if it has no purpose or function, other then just to show off, then to me it's just a gimmick. Put real cams in, which will create this sound, then it will be cool. But to pretend?....come on. (not trying to insult the guys that like it. I just think it's pointless)
Lets break it down.
Putting in a big cam changes many things, the main factors involving lope is overlap. To change over lap in the past you had to change THE cam (or maybe 2 or 4). In the past the camshaft itself defined the overlap because it was physical. Even on old 4 v motors you had to change the cams because there was no way to control the cams separately.
Technology has allowed us to now control the cams independently, therefore we can alter the relationship of the intake and exhaust lobes without physically changing anything. Which is the exact same thing that changing the physical cam shaft did in the past.
Idle lope was a by product of a cam designed to produce more power and at a different rev range then originally intended. Car guys came to know this sound and long for it.
Now I have a Big cam in my car just like the old days, but its not because the grind is aggressive its because the computer is doing it. So I have the equivalent of a "big cam" in my car and am already reaping the performance benefits of that. However I got no cool by product aka the lopey idle.
conversely you could put a real cam in the car and make it idle like a stocker if you reversed this idea. Sleeper effect.
So I want the lopey idle because its something I have always wanted and now instead of going through the pains of cam changes (Which I hate unless the motor is out for other stuff too) it can just be programmed in. My car has the bite, it just didn’t have the bark.
Just another way of looking at it
Last edited by Stinger1982; 3/22/11 at 12:49 PM.
3/22/11, 12:56 PM
#84
Post *****
Join Date: December 14, 2007
Location: State of Jefferson Mountains USA
Posts: 20,005
Likes: 0
Received 4 Likes
on
4 Posts
Although simply changing cam timing and overlap via TiVCT doesn't change lift and duration that is achieved by physically changing cams.
And simply changing the cam itself (today or the old days) did not necessarily change the cam timing. Separate things.
Last edited by cdynaco; 3/22/11 at 01:00 PM.
3/22/11, 01:10 PM
#85
I am Shauny Clause
MOTM July 2010 Winner
MOTM July 2010 Winner
Join Date: November 25, 2009
Location: Metro Detroit
Posts: 1,519
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
A question I have wanted to ask, I think it's not physically possible (cam speeds are to fast, benefit may be too marginal but I'm not an engineer) is could you "stall" a cam phaser to change duration? You know momentarily park a valve at max lift by free wheeling the cam phaser?
but then it would close STUPID fast as the phaser would need to catch up to ready for the next cycle. Nifty concept but I don’t think its feasible or even makes sense in execution.
Last edited by Stinger1982; 3/22/11 at 01:14 PM.
3/22/11, 01:39 PM
#87
Team Mustang Source
Thread Starter
Join Date: January 30, 2004
Location: Montreal
Posts: 3,738
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I working in the racing industry right now, and I think its cool.
Lets break it down.
Putting in a big cam changes many things, the main factors involving lope is overlap. To change over lap in the past you had to change THE cam (or maybe 2 or 4). In the past the camshaft itself defined the overlap because it was physical. Even on old 4 v motors you had to change the cams because there was no way to control the cams separately.
Technology has allowed us to now control the cams independently, therefore we can alter the relationship of the intake and exhaust lobes without physically changing anything. Which is the exact same thing that changing the physical cam shaft did in the past.
Idle lope was a by product of a cam designed to produce more power and at a different rev range then originally intended. Car guys came to know this sound and long for it.
Now I have a Big cam in my car just like the old days, but its not because the grind is aggressive its because the computer is doing it. So I have the equivalent of a "big cam" in my car and am already reaping the performance benefits of that. However I got no cool by product aka the lopey idle.
conversely you could put a real cam in the car and make it idle like a stocker if you reversed this idea. Sleeper effect.
So I want the lopey idle because its something I have always wanted and now instead of going through the pains of cam changes (Which I hate unless the motor is out for other stuff too) it can just be programmed in. My car has the bite, it just didn’t have the bark.
Just another way of looking at it
Lets break it down.
Putting in a big cam changes many things, the main factors involving lope is overlap. To change over lap in the past you had to change THE cam (or maybe 2 or 4). In the past the camshaft itself defined the overlap because it was physical. Even on old 4 v motors you had to change the cams because there was no way to control the cams separately.
Technology has allowed us to now control the cams independently, therefore we can alter the relationship of the intake and exhaust lobes without physically changing anything. Which is the exact same thing that changing the physical cam shaft did in the past.
Idle lope was a by product of a cam designed to produce more power and at a different rev range then originally intended. Car guys came to know this sound and long for it.
Now I have a Big cam in my car just like the old days, but its not because the grind is aggressive its because the computer is doing it. So I have the equivalent of a "big cam" in my car and am already reaping the performance benefits of that. However I got no cool by product aka the lopey idle.
conversely you could put a real cam in the car and make it idle like a stocker if you reversed this idea. Sleeper effect.
So I want the lopey idle because its something I have always wanted and now instead of going through the pains of cam changes (Which I hate unless the motor is out for other stuff too) it can just be programmed in. My car has the bite, it just didn’t have the bark.
Just another way of looking at it
3/22/11, 01:40 PM
#88
I am Shauny Clause
MOTM July 2010 Winner
MOTM July 2010 Winner
Join Date: November 25, 2009
Location: Metro Detroit
Posts: 1,519
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
3/22/11, 01:45 PM
#89
I am Shauny Clause
MOTM July 2010 Winner
MOTM July 2010 Winner
Join Date: November 25, 2009
Location: Metro Detroit
Posts: 1,519
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
If the tuner doesnt know what they are doing you could munch a valve. but that would be a pretty extreme screw up LOL (it would happen right after the first start up).
in terms of durability, nah.
3/22/11, 05:20 PM
#90
Mach 1 Member
Join Date: March 20, 2011
Location: Bremen, Indiana
Posts: 869
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I working in the racing industry right now, and I think its cool.
Lets break it down.
Putting in a big cam changes many things, the main factors involving lope is overlap. To change over lap in the past you had to change THE cam (or maybe 2 or 4). In the past the camshaft itself defined the overlap because it was physical. Even on old 4 v motors you had to change the cams because there was no way to control the cams separately.
Technology has allowed us to now control the cams independently, therefore we can alter the relationship of the intake and exhaust lobes without physically changing anything. Which is the exact same thing that changing the physical cam shaft did in the past.
Idle lope was a by product of a cam designed to produce more power and at a different rev range then originally intended. Car guys came to know this sound and long for it.
Now I have a Big cam in my car just like the old days, but its not because the grind is aggressive its because the computer is doing it. So I have the equivalent of a "big cam" in my car and am already reaping the performance benefits of that. However I got no cool by product aka the lopey idle.
conversely you could put a real cam in the car and make it idle like a stocker if you reversed this idea. Sleeper effect.
So I want the lopey idle because its something I have always wanted and now instead of going through the pains of cam changes (Which I hate unless the motor is out for other stuff too) it can just be programmed in. My car has the bite, it just didn’t have the bark.
Just another way of looking at it
Lets break it down.
Putting in a big cam changes many things, the main factors involving lope is overlap. To change over lap in the past you had to change THE cam (or maybe 2 or 4). In the past the camshaft itself defined the overlap because it was physical. Even on old 4 v motors you had to change the cams because there was no way to control the cams separately.
Technology has allowed us to now control the cams independently, therefore we can alter the relationship of the intake and exhaust lobes without physically changing anything. Which is the exact same thing that changing the physical cam shaft did in the past.
Idle lope was a by product of a cam designed to produce more power and at a different rev range then originally intended. Car guys came to know this sound and long for it.
Now I have a Big cam in my car just like the old days, but its not because the grind is aggressive its because the computer is doing it. So I have the equivalent of a "big cam" in my car and am already reaping the performance benefits of that. However I got no cool by product aka the lopey idle.
conversely you could put a real cam in the car and make it idle like a stocker if you reversed this idea. Sleeper effect.
So I want the lopey idle because its something I have always wanted and now instead of going through the pains of cam changes (Which I hate unless the motor is out for other stuff too) it can just be programmed in. My car has the bite, it just didn’t have the bark.
Just another way of looking at it
This guy hits the nail right on the head. You already have the "big" cams in your car you just are manipulating them at idle to do what they are already doing at higher rpm. Your actually getting the best of three worlds if the big cam sound is your thing. Your 1 getting the *****in' idle, 2 great low end and drivability off idle as the cams phase back to stock advance and 3 great top end and a very high redline for a v-8 motor.
3/22/11, 09:53 PM
#91
Bullitt Member
Join Date: July 6, 2010
Posts: 402
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
does not take power away, as soon as you come off idle PCM proceeds as normal as it did before.
If the tuner doesnt know what they are doing you could munch a valve. but that would be a pretty extreme screw up LOL (it would happen right after the first start up).
in terms of durability, nah.
If the tuner doesnt know what they are doing you could munch a valve. but that would be a pretty extreme screw up LOL (it would happen right after the first start up).
in terms of durability, nah.
would also be as easy as plugging in your tuner and pushing a button or two, to go back to a more factory sound... so sounds pretty cool to me if you get bored with it
Last edited by starbai; 3/22/11 at 09:56 PM.
3/23/11, 11:32 AM
#97
I am Shauny Clause
MOTM July 2010 Winner
MOTM July 2010 Winner
Join Date: November 25, 2009
Location: Metro Detroit
Posts: 1,519
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I think he was saying a performance tune thats also has the idle is only $200, but that cant be right thats like buying a Veryon for $30,000.........
3/23/11, 11:48 AM
#98
Bullitt Member
Join Date: July 6, 2010
Posts: 402
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
3/23/11, 11:50 AM
#99
Shelby GT350 Member
Yes its a 91-93 aggressive tune with the idle for $200, not just the sound. I guy who post here went 12.09 @ 116 mph with a Lund tune only on stock tires.
3/23/11, 11:54 AM
#100
Mach 1 Member
Join Date: February 22, 2011
Location: Akron, Ohio
Posts: 509
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts