WaveMan2k3

actually u can use electricity that can be made like in most cases by a hydro-electric dam...

Decipher

Wow. What a viewpoint. You obviously know very little of what you speak.

Sure you have to make hydrogen, but with reverse fuel cells all it takes is whater and electricity. Both of which CAN be attained in plentiful and enviromentally friendly ways. Hydrogen is the most plentiful element in the universe. It's EVERYWHERE AND it's easily extracted. Sure, effieciency may be low, and cost may be high at first. But we went through the same thing a century ago with gasoline. With the technology of today, that learning curve will be shortened to around a decade. Hydrogen is no scam.

FrankBullitt05

Gasoline does not come out of the ground pure and free...it must be found, drilling equipment set up, seperated from the crude, so on and so forth...and for Hydrogen, water must be distilled, the H seperated from the O, and distributed...

So, does it make more sense to have drills in the artic circle and transport that crude to some other point to be refined...or set up a small tank in your garage to seperate the water into its constituents and store it in a non-volatile manner?

Either way, its expending energy to get energy...

future9er24

but you expend significantly less energy making Hydrogen fuel. i mean, sperating molecules in water is a whole heckuva lot easier than digging up oil. Hydrogen is the way of the future people. might as well invest in it now and get the revelution overwith so we can find better ways of using it. remember, nearly everything we have today, TV, cell phones, computers, even cars, were all viewed as unproductive or novelties for the rich when they were introduced. now, the average joe cant live without them. hydrogen just needs a little push to get started and before you know it we'll have super effecient and maybe even super powerful hydrogen cars. besides, we have no ther choice, we're gonna run out of oil soon and where will we be then?

Decipher

amen brotha.

WaveMan2k3

true dat

FrankBullitt05

hehe...I think we have some Hydrogen Hitmen here

Horsepower844182

I'm all for it...is there any estimates on how low hydrogen could get?

If it started out a little over what gas is now, but came down say a couple of years latter to like 50 cents a gallon (or whatever it'll be sold as) then I would rather hold off on the driving for a bit then be able to do whatever I want because I have some cheap fuel.

Decipher

lol

Seriously though. If any naysayers out there could post some cold hard facts and not urban legends, ancienthistory, or unsubstaniated remarks, that'd be great. This has been a very one sided thread and any true opposition is welcome. I'm not saying I won't post a rebuttal, but we need some real debate going here and not just random sentiments from the other side like "Hydrogen is a myth" or "What about the Hindenburg?"

WaveMan2k3

havent got the slightest idea but as far as the hydrogen hitmen... i like the sound of that B)

FrankBullitt05

I'm guessing somewhere between a glass of tap water and a bottle of Dasani...

It all depends on how the hydrogen is seperated, and how much is available(good ole supply and demand)

Horsepower844182

To the Hindenburg I say, technological disasters happen...you can't say they don't happen today...you just got to find the mistake that caused it and try to prevent it in the future..but **** happens...

WaveMan2k3

yup so true... and i like to say learn from others mistakes so u dont make them too

Decipher

With advances in Technology, unless greedy compnaies take it over, Hydrogen will become so cheap to produce that it will cost a small fraction of what gasoline costs today. It could even end up free if the separation of hydrogen gets to the point where it can be done at home. Then it would just be a matter of the cost of the water and electricity needed. In other words, Hydrogen, like any new technology, may start off expensive, but it will go down in price. As future9er24 said, look what's happened with Cell phones, TV, Computers, and the like. With hydrogen though, it wouldn't be unreasonable to expect the price to drop much faster than the afformentioned technologies.

WaveMan2k3

again thats what i have also stated

FrankBullitt05

Look at the website I posted previously, that company's plan includes, besides transforming the car to H-power, a home seperator of water. Plug it in(they'll sell ya solar panels, wind turbine, or just a home plug) and pour in some water, and it pumps it into the fuel tanks. Hows that for affordable fuel?

So, who wants change to change their title to Hydrogen Hitman B) :scratch:

V10

Please explain to me how this will be done. It is just about impossible to build any new large dams / hydro electric plants in the US due to environmental regulations and all the groups that will protest it. If it was not for the Great Depression neither the Hoover Dam nor the Grand Coolee Dam would ever have been build and that was 70 years ago.

FrankBullitt05

Look at the website I posted previously, that company's plan includes, besides transforming the car to H-power, a home seperator of water. Plug it in(they'll sell ya solar panels, wind turbine, or just a home plug) and pour in some water, and it pumps it into the fuel tanks. Hows that for affordable fuel?

So, who wants change to change their title to Hydrogen Hitman B) :scratch:

Horsepower844182

I vote for Decipher

V10

With advances in Technology, unless greedy compnaies take it over, Hydrogen will become so cheap to produce that it will cost a small fraction of what gasoline costs today. It could even end up free if the separation of hydrogen gets to the point where it can be done at home. Then it would just be a matter of the cost of the water and electricity needed. In other words, Hydrogen, like any new technology, may start off expensive, but it will go down in price. As future9er24 said, look what's happened with Cell phones, TV, Computers, and the like. With hydrogen though, it wouldn't be unreasonable to expect the price to drop much faster than the afformentioned technologies. [/b][/quote]
OK, why don't you start with the chemical reaction equations with the energy required to separate hydrogen out of water and how much energy is then released by "burning" the hydrogen back into water.

What is the total efficiency of an oil burning electric plant and what are the transmission loses?

The bottom line is hydrogen is an energy transfer medium. It is net energy negative so it is NOT a source of energy.

The most efficient means to power a vehicle today is still from crude oil.

Why waste our time with hydrogen. Why don't we skip hydrogen and go right to cold fusion? :bang: :bang: :bang: