TracKey is here! Those that are installing - please post!
11/11/11, 09:56 PM
#541
Originally Posted by Scott
Sorry no other state has a Air Resources Board.
Back it up, Scott. My statement was in response to yours, when you said "...there is an EPA in this country. Why one state and only one state needs to double that is beyond me." Just as your link to the Wiki states, California is the only state permitted to have such a regulatory agency, the result of which approximately 1/4 of the nation has chosen to follow those very regulations that California passed. So in essence, the Air Resources Board from one state, establishes the emissions law for those states that have adopted California's. Comprende?
There is no billion dollar Air Resources Board here and even if they say they will follow one standard or another I do not have to show any state agency or police my stickers to drive my car on public roads.
One standard or another? If Florida adopts the California standards, you won't get any stickers until the proper state agency can thoroughly evaluate your vehicle at whatever intervals they mandate. Furthermore, if they do adopt them, there is a plethora of sister laws that allow law enforcement to verify that your vehicle has the appropriate equipment in place. Impounding your vehicle is just one of the choices they have at their disposal if you have "tampered" with your vehicle. If you are lucky enough to avoid giving the police the opportunity you could still be the victim of a failed remote sensing test. Heard of the "Heros" program before?
How does remote sensing work?
Remote sensing devices, first demonstrated in the1980s, measure a vehicle’s emissions by projecting beams of both infrared and ultraviolet light across a roadway such as a freeway on-ramp. As a vehicle passes by, its tailpipe emissions absorb some of the light. A sensor receives the light after it passes through the tailpipe emissions and a computer calculates the vehicle’s emissions level. At the same time, a video camera captures the vehicle’s license plate and a computer logs and digitizes the emissions and license plate information. Remote sensing devices today are capable of measuring a vehicle’s tailpipe emissions of hydrocarbons, carbon monoxide and nitrogen oxides in less than one second.
How will the HEROS program reduce emissions?
Although the state’s Smog Check program requires that vehicles pass an emissions test every two years, evidence suggests that some vehicles have high emissions in between the biennial tests. By repairing or scrapping high-emitting vehicles that are not due for their next test, the HEROS program will accelerate emissions reductions expected from the Smog Check program.
http://www.aqmd.gov/news1/2007/remot...factsheet.html
http://www.smogtips.com/remote_sensing.cfm
Fact remains they are the only state to have a redundant agency and the tax payers are getting screwed for it.
For EVERY state that adopted California's standards, there is no redundancy - just California's standards. It's one or the other (Fed or CA) but not both.
I have nothing against the good normal people of CA, but I can't be the only one that thinks this is a bit excessive or bordering on lunacy. Anyway I am out of this debate in this thread, it is getting ulgy. If you or other think they are doing a good job that is fine, I see it differently and feel screwed by the whole process.
I never saw this as any type of "debate" but rather a clearer understanding of the facts. Not ones in your head (or mine) but rather the law as is.
I never commented personally regarding my assessment of the California standard as a whole. I have always felt it a bit ironic that the very state that started the idea of "hot rodding" is the very state that appears to be hell bent on killing it. Rest assured that there are quite a few in the industry that are working very hard to protect your hobby. For a better understanding along with a bit of history on the subject, take a gander at the following articles and excerpts...
http://www.sema.org/sema-news/2009/0...iance-equation
http://books.google.com/books?id=iCW...ssions&f=false (start at page 221)
Back it up, Scott. My statement was in response to yours, when you said "...there is an EPA in this country. Why one state and only one state needs to double that is beyond me." Just as your link to the Wiki states, California is the only state permitted to have such a regulatory agency, the result of which approximately 1/4 of the nation has chosen to follow those very regulations that California passed. So in essence, the Air Resources Board from one state, establishes the emissions law for those states that have adopted California's. Comprende?
There is no billion dollar Air Resources Board here and even if they say they will follow one standard or another I do not have to show any state agency or police my stickers to drive my car on public roads.
One standard or another? If Florida adopts the California standards, you won't get any stickers until the proper state agency can thoroughly evaluate your vehicle at whatever intervals they mandate. Furthermore, if they do adopt them, there is a plethora of sister laws that allow law enforcement to verify that your vehicle has the appropriate equipment in place. Impounding your vehicle is just one of the choices they have at their disposal if you have "tampered" with your vehicle. If you are lucky enough to avoid giving the police the opportunity you could still be the victim of a failed remote sensing test. Heard of the "Heros" program before?
How does remote sensing work?
Remote sensing devices, first demonstrated in the1980s, measure a vehicle’s emissions by projecting beams of both infrared and ultraviolet light across a roadway such as a freeway on-ramp. As a vehicle passes by, its tailpipe emissions absorb some of the light. A sensor receives the light after it passes through the tailpipe emissions and a computer calculates the vehicle’s emissions level. At the same time, a video camera captures the vehicle’s license plate and a computer logs and digitizes the emissions and license plate information. Remote sensing devices today are capable of measuring a vehicle’s tailpipe emissions of hydrocarbons, carbon monoxide and nitrogen oxides in less than one second.
How will the HEROS program reduce emissions?
Although the state’s Smog Check program requires that vehicles pass an emissions test every two years, evidence suggests that some vehicles have high emissions in between the biennial tests. By repairing or scrapping high-emitting vehicles that are not due for their next test, the HEROS program will accelerate emissions reductions expected from the Smog Check program.
http://www.aqmd.gov/news1/2007/remot...factsheet.html
http://www.smogtips.com/remote_sensing.cfm
Fact remains they are the only state to have a redundant agency and the tax payers are getting screwed for it.
For EVERY state that adopted California's standards, there is no redundancy - just California's standards. It's one or the other (Fed or CA) but not both.
I have nothing against the good normal people of CA, but I can't be the only one that thinks this is a bit excessive or bordering on lunacy. Anyway I am out of this debate in this thread, it is getting ulgy. If you or other think they are doing a good job that is fine, I see it differently and feel screwed by the whole process.
I never saw this as any type of "debate" but rather a clearer understanding of the facts. Not ones in your head (or mine) but rather the law as is.
I never commented personally regarding my assessment of the California standard as a whole. I have always felt it a bit ironic that the very state that started the idea of "hot rodding" is the very state that appears to be hell bent on killing it. Rest assured that there are quite a few in the industry that are working very hard to protect your hobby. For a better understanding along with a bit of history on the subject, take a gander at the following articles and excerpts...
http://www.sema.org/sema-news/2009/0...iance-equation
http://books.google.com/books?id=iCW...ssions&f=false (start at page 221)
2k7gtcs, your point about natural disasters such as a volcanic eruption and the ensuing pollution is certainly valid. However, I don't see a stop to the green movement. It has even taken over my posts...
Last edited by Tob*; 11/11/11 at 10:31 PM.
11/11/11, 11:55 PM
#542
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Thus far, the only posters engaging in apologetics for the CARB nonsense are non-BOSS owners - particularly GT 500 guys.
I'm wondering what the psychology behind that is.
I'm wondering what the psychology behind that is.
11/12/11, 12:11 AM
#543
Apologetics? Sounds like an L. Ron Hubbard book!
I think you're misreading my interest, John. Yes, I own an S197 chassis that happens to have the 5.4 liter engine in it. I appreciate the technology that the Coyote based engine in the Boss/Laguna cars have very much. I have never made this out to be a GT500 vs Boss issue - ever.
As to what the psychology behind seeking fact is...I don't know. The search for the truth? Wisdom? I wonder too. But please, this isn't about picking a side, be it Boss vs GT500 or CARB vs Boss. That completely misses the matter at hand, which is simply a timeline of events.
If you still feel that way, I suggest you reread my posts and show me where I somehow unfairly characterize CARB's position or the applicable regulations.
I think you're misreading my interest, John. Yes, I own an S197 chassis that happens to have the 5.4 liter engine in it. I appreciate the technology that the Coyote based engine in the Boss/Laguna cars have very much. I have never made this out to be a GT500 vs Boss issue - ever.
As to what the psychology behind seeking fact is...I don't know. The search for the truth? Wisdom? I wonder too. But please, this isn't about picking a side, be it Boss vs GT500 or CARB vs Boss. That completely misses the matter at hand, which is simply a timeline of events.
If you still feel that way, I suggest you reread my posts and show me where I somehow unfairly characterize CARB's position or the applicable regulations.
11/12/11, 12:27 AM
#544
You can't read too much into which group supports and which doesn't. In the real world it's Prius owners and the like against Boss and Shelby guys.
Besides its failed logic to say that because 11ShelbyGT500 and Tob* defend CARB and own Shelbys that all Shelby owners defend CARB.
Now if you want to make generalizations then I'd say perhaps Boss owners seem to be a somewhat insecure bunch of people quick to claim conspiracies and blame others. But that would be just as wrong.
Besides its failed logic to say that because 11ShelbyGT500 and Tob* defend CARB and own Shelbys that all Shelby owners defend CARB.
Now if you want to make generalizations then I'd say perhaps Boss owners seem to be a somewhat insecure bunch of people quick to claim conspiracies and blame others. But that would be just as wrong.
11/12/11, 12:28 AM
#545
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You can count on things getting much uglier. Not on this forum - we're just car enthusiasts mouthing off - but in the real world. Historically speaking, controlling statist types don't stop doing what doing they do until they're FORCED to stop. If they could get away with it, the New Victorians would see to it that Chevy Volts and/or bicycles would be the only form of government-approved transportation.
Right now they have to settle for smaller victories like screwing up TracKey - only because they're still on somewhat of a leash.
11/12/11, 01:41 AM
#547
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I just registered for this forum and already think I need to bow out. I thought that this was a place to discuss the cars, not yet another place for everyone to vent their political views and blindly rant at one another. Yet another reason that I sometimes HATE the effing internet. GET OVER YOURSELVES. It's a friggin CAR!! Seriously... what's wrong with some of you?
11/12/11, 03:16 AM
#548
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Originally Posted by twawsico
I just registered for this forum and already think I need to bow out. I thought that this was a place to discuss the cars, not yet another place for everyone to vent their political views and blindly rant at one another. Yet another reason that I sometimes HATE the effing internet. GET OVER YOURSELVES. It's a friggin CAR!! Seriously... what's wrong with some of you?
11/12/11, 03:35 AM
#549
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I just registered for this forum and already think I need to bow out. I thought that this was a place to discuss the cars, not yet another place for everyone to vent their political views and blindly rant at one another. Yet another reason that I sometimes HATE the effing internet. GET OVER YOURSELVES. It's a friggin CAR!! Seriously... what's wrong with some of you?
We're spending nearly 50-large on this car. I'm sure that I speak for most others when I say I'm still overwhelming thrilled with what Ford has created in the BOSS and 100% glad that I'm buying a BOSS. That being said I, nor you, nor any other BOSS purchasers here or elsewhere are getting the product we had hoped for, all because of a handful of a handful of west coast activist bureaucrats and their overbearing, scientifically unsound, politically motivated policies.
There were people in here talking about a CLASS ACTION LAWSUIT against Ford for crying out loud, not realizing that Ford would have loved nothing more than to give us the "fully loaded" TracKey.
I'm wondering, should we talk around this exceedingly glaring issue and pretend it doesn't exist so as not to offend your sensibilities and cause you to take your marbles and go home?
11/12/11, 06:05 AM
#550
Originally Posted by 2k7gtcs
Now if you want to make generalizations then I'd say perhaps Boss owners seem to be a somewhat insecure bunch of people quick to claim conspiracies and blame others. But that would be just as wrong.
And we dont believe in conspiracy theories. Although personally I am convinced that all of the CARB officials drive GT500's and Joe delivers their Christmas presents.
11/12/11, 06:13 AM
#551
Originally Posted by twawsico
I just registered for this forum and already think I need to bow out. I thought that this was a place to discuss the cars, not yet another place for everyone to vent their political views and blindly rant at one another. Yet another reason that I sometimes HATE the effing internet. GET OVER YOURSELVES. It's a friggin CAR!! Seriously... what's wrong with some of you?
11/12/11, 06:24 AM
#552
A Man Just Needs Some....
Ford did a great job with the Boss 302. It does what it was promised to do. For the price, it's really hard to beat. But it's not automotive perfection. For $45k it's a real bargain for what you get these days. If you want perfection, you're gonna have to spend a lot more $$$$$$. And even Ferrari is not perfect. But dammm close. 
11/12/11, 06:42 AM
#553
Originally Posted by AlsCobra
Ford did a great job with the Boss 302. It does what it was promised to do. For the price, it's really hard to beat. But it's not automotive perfection. For $45k it's a real bargain for what you get these days. If you want perfection, you're gonna have to spend a lot more $$$$$$. And even Ferrari is not perfect. But dammm close.
I feel like I got my money's worth when I bought my Boss. TracKey was an attractive option, but that is not why I paid $45,000.I was hesitant to part with that much cash as I never paid more than $25K before (why did the wife always get the new cars previously). I am happy to say that so far the car has way exceeded my expectations. I will probably get TracKey, but I dont expect it to make the car vastly, if any, better. It just completes the package for an outlay roughly 1% of what you paid for the car.
Thats just my opinion, others are welcome to get heated up over TracKey failures and I dont blame them. My family and friends will tell you that I am easily pleased. I find lthat in the long run life is easier that way.
11/12/11, 07:15 AM
#554
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Thank you.
Ulitmately, the TracKey issue will become nothing more than a blip. As someone - like many here - who's loved fast cars/muscle cars most of his life, I haven't been this excited about anything that Detroit has put out (that is reasonably priced) in decades. Not only is it outperforming everything in its price range, it's outperforming cars with MSRPs multiple times more. This car, along with some of the "muscle" varieties put out by Dodge and GM puts America into an era of car making that we haven't seen since the late 60s/early 70s.
Some of us, who may have been too young to enjoy that period, never thought we'd see anything like it in our lifetimes. Then along comes the GTO, the Camaro SS convertible and most especially the BOSS.
For Ford to pull this off while it was going through such a time of adversity is nothing short of amazing. As a former GM guy, Ford has won me over; probably permanently.
11/12/11, 09:29 AM
#556
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Servitium,
I couldn't have said it better and I grew up in the 60's. Ford has done a better job than the Camaro and Challenger. Bang for the $$ it fits in with the C6ZO6 and while not quite as track ready as my GT3 it doesn't miss it by much, just need to get a good fix on the cooling issues.
Peter
I couldn't have said it better and I grew up in the 60's. Ford has done a better job than the Camaro and Challenger. Bang for the $$ it fits in with the C6ZO6 and while not quite as track ready as my GT3 it doesn't miss it by much, just need to get a good fix on the cooling issues.
Peter
Last edited by OLOABoss; 11/12/11 at 09:30 AM.
11/12/11, 09:37 AM
#557
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This.
Thank you.
Ulitmately, the TracKey issue will become nothing more than a blip. As someone - like many here - who's loved fast cars/muscle cars most of his life, I haven't been this excited about anything that Detroit has put out (that is reasonably priced) in decades. Not only is it outperforming everything in its price range, it's outperforming cars with MSRPs multiple times more. This car, along with some of the "muscle" varieties put out by Dodge and GM puts America into an era of car making that we haven't seen since the late 60s/early 70s.
Some of us, who may have been too young to enjoy that period, never thought we'd see anything like it in our lifetimes. Then along comes the GTO, the Camaro SS convertible and most especially the BOSS.
For Ford to pull this off while it was going through such a time of adversity is nothing short of amazing. As a former GM guy, Ford has won me over; probably permanently.
Thank you.
Ulitmately, the TracKey issue will become nothing more than a blip. As someone - like many here - who's loved fast cars/muscle cars most of his life, I haven't been this excited about anything that Detroit has put out (that is reasonably priced) in decades. Not only is it outperforming everything in its price range, it's outperforming cars with MSRPs multiple times more. This car, along with some of the "muscle" varieties put out by Dodge and GM puts America into an era of car making that we haven't seen since the late 60s/early 70s.
Some of us, who may have been too young to enjoy that period, never thought we'd see anything like it in our lifetimes. Then along comes the GTO, the Camaro SS convertible and most especially the BOSS.
For Ford to pull this off while it was going through such a time of adversity is nothing short of amazing. As a former GM guy, Ford has won me over; probably permanently.
My 1969 GTO modded to the max. (I often brought the front wheels off the ground on the street to the detriment of my full-length headers which were flat on the bottom) would be lucky to make it into the mid 12's back then (as a similarly modded one did in a Hot Rod article). Cars today can be driven from the showroom floor directly to the racetrack and perform better! And I drive a GT500 because Ford effed up and never delivered my Boss, but I'm not holding a grudge.
11/12/11, 10:34 AM
#558
Cobra R Member
Fact is I too love My Boss. Have there been issues, sure. And being able to share here allows me to get them off my chest and move on. How could we not be a bit disappointed with Trackey with such a long delay? And sure the delay may be CARB's fault. But it's also their failure. I now sit and wait for my car to read "Trackey Engine Enabled" before heading out. Not very green that and an example of my problem with most green thinking. It's simply too short-sighted in most cases and not reflective of what's really needed. And don't get me started on spiraling wind farms ;-). But at the end of the day I am here because I'm a car enthusiast and Ford reached out to me with this car and brought me back to the brand after a 13 year defection to BMW. So well deserved kudos to Ford and everyone who worked to bring us the Boss 302.
11/12/11, 11:12 AM
#559
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Dropped my Boss off today. Literally just got a call saying they can't do the install. What do I have to do to get them to do it? They said the patch won't download.