CaptDistraction

That's something that caught my eye as well. Wasn't sure If this bar could be expanded into something for race use in the future with that particular design trait.


Very pretty and well thought out work!

nota4re

Thanks for all the comments and observations, everyone. It is encouraging to be at this point in the project and the feedback is welcomed and appreciated. Regarding the strength of the rear support for the diagonal braces, I will improve upon the pictures hopefully during this coming week as the project makes progress. What can't be seen is that the "box" also has a base which is bolted down as well with the top of the shock mount. This fabricator is VERY experienced in building professional cages... let's wait for the next update.

As for growing this system into a fully certified cage - I suppose with enough work anything could be done (and I wouldn't discourage it) but at the same time this is not our target audience. We are targetting GT and Boss owners who enjoy tracking the car and who have advanced enough to want full harnesses and who want the extra protection of a roll bar. It provides what we believe is a very reasonable extra margin of safety but, like virtually any system, it is not immune to failure as we cannot predict all of the scenarios - that we hope no one experiences. If you purchased your Boss with the potential to one day turn it into a professional race car where you are doing more wheel to wheel racing, then we would advocate that you abandon some of the other more street-oriented constraints and go for a full weld in 4 or 6-pt bar/cage.

Again, thank you for the feedback.... we'll have some more updates soon!

CaptDistraction

Good stuff, keep it up!

2 Go Snake

I like all the ideas presented. If there is a choice of getting a MIG welded roll bar kit for less money but of the same dimensions and near quality of the Tig welded roll bar, I would be interested in using the kit in a 2007 Mustang GT for drag racing. This would not be for a class requiring a roll bar, just for extra safety on the street and strip. The more I look at the roll bar featured in this thread, the more I like it.

ulev1st

Randall.....any pictures from the inside of the rear down bars to the shock crossbar?

rmaginnis

Wow, this looks is sick!
Questions I have is how do you put the assembly into the car when pre-welded? The rear tower cross bar and diagnals from main hoop look too close to inner body panels to just 'slide' in place. I assume that rear shocks need to be lowered out of the way prior to?
Nice job!

2 Go Snake

That was my question also, how do they get the bar in with so very close tolerances to the interior panels ? The reason I am so impressed with the bar is bacause of how close the bar is to the inside of the body. A really hansome rollbar. Best I have seen.

Sabre

Please tell me you have intentions of doing the same roll bar for the 05 - 09 model years...SOON....for those of us who track our 05 - 09 cars....our options for good roll bars are sorely limited!!

nota4re

Yeah, the good news is that the bar will look great installed. As for the installation process, the plastic side panels ain't gonna be any fun. It is easy enough to put the main hoop in and out but when it comes time to fit it with the side panels in place - all will need to be done together. One option we are considering is to also offer the side panels pre-trimmed. This way, the truly **** owners (like me!) would; 1) have the option to keep their OEM un-trimmed panels tucked away and; 2) wouldn't have to worry about doing the needed panel trimming.

All of these pics ar of my car as we get the roll bar fitted and the jigs made to repeat the bar for production. The first 2 production bars WE will be installing. (Oh joy!) The first one will be used to create the installation instructions and tips. We HAVE already proven out the fitment with the trimmed panels.... I just didn't get the opportunity to get any pics to share yet. More soon (this week).

Jza1736

Can't wait! You guys have done some great work!!

nota4re

Thanks for asking but realistically, not anytime soon. The fabricator that we are using does a lot of interior-gutted and tubular chassis "REAL" race cars and seldom takes on a job for a car with an interior to work around. I'm not sure that he want to see another "interior'd car" for awhile. Keep in mind that my car has been in his shop for 5 WEEKS now.... going on 6! This is a much "harder" and more challenging problem to solve than I had originally thought.

Sabre

Thanks...I understand.

You don't know until you ask...so I asked.

Keep it in mind though...when you get this project wrapped up and in production. I still believe there would be a big market out there, for another cage option for 05 - 09 S197...especially one that is going to look as nice as yours is going to.

RJorge1950

Hi nota4re !

It's me Rob, just had to join TMS so I can be able to follow your thread and keep up with the progress that you are making. Hope I don't have to get divorced like the other guy LOL.
The panel idea is a great one as the LS is a limited production car that most owners would like the ability to bring the car back to stock. This roll bar is not intended for wheel to wheel racing but it gives us added safety when using the car on track days. It provides a solid platform to mount a 4 or 5 point harness, and it looks killer !
As for the diagonal brace, it would help structually but it would defenitely interfere with the seat travel. I would be fine without it.
As for the rear bar being hard to install you may look at doing a bolt on flange that attaches from the horizontal tube to the side bracket on each side of the rear struts. This way you can first bolt on the brackets then bolt the bar to the brackets. Just my 2 cents
Sorry to hear that you have your car tied up for six weeks but it's for a good cause.

Best regards,

Rob

2 Go Snake

It may be awhile before a rollbar becomes available for the 2005-2009 Mustang GT, but at least we have hope it may happen. I dont know the difference between interior dimensions of a 2012 as opposed to a 2005-2009 GT. Maybe as more Kel-Tech rollbars become available, someone will get a tape measure and see if the bar would fit a 2005-2009 GT. A rollbar would add some safety even on the street. Too bad, Ford could not offer a rollbar as an option.

boss man

You are right in stating A rollbar would add some safety even on the street. If I'm correct there are 4 totaled 2012 Bosses and 3 of them rolled. Makes you wonder

Tob*

Kendall, what I appreciate most here is your ability to be clear and concise. You articulate your thoughts very well and obviously have a good grasp on our native tongue - thanks for no lol's. Perusing your site, I can see you have some very well engineered products for sale. Good show.

Because I happen to spend some time behind a welding mask as well as having installed a couple of 'bars' before, I saw mention of a few things here and would like clarification, if you can.

Regarding your initial post...

I can't argue that overall, the TIG process may be inherently 'cleaner' than if one were to MIG, but spatter or sparks don't necessarily produce an inferior fusion point. I would argue that the TIG process offers the potential to produce more precise welds with a more tightly controlled heat affected zone.

Without introducing any type of filler rod, an autogenous weld will reduce/relocate the base material on the tubes to be joined. For structural purposes, I'm not sure that is going to produce the strongest joint were an accident to occur that deformed the vehicle or 'roll' bar.

Argon, whether used in the TIG process or in the MIG process has the same effect regarding shielding gases and their ability to ward off contaminants.

I like your logic regarding the harness bar. I suppose an argument could be made that the strongest bar in this location would be in a single plane and thus have no bends, but comfort level would be seriously degraded for taller drivers that need more room. I prefer the way you are doing it and I'm sure many others will as well.

Its good to see some bar manufacturers are using the rear bulkhead to their (structural) advantage, as opposed to mounting the downward portion of the main hoop over the flat portion of sheetmetal aft of the front seats ('stiffening' plate or not). I think it was Maximum Motorsports that first used this to their advantage on a large scale with their S197 bar offerings.

That said, I notice that the factory incorporates a triangulated section in their stamping that runs from the rocker (at the bottom of the B pillar) to the bulkhead



I notice that Maximum took the time to add this section as well via a triangulated and welded section...



I notice that yours doesn't utilize it...



Have you compiled any data or finite element analysis that shows it to be unnecessary? Just curious.

Regarding fitment for '07-'09 models (or back to '05, essentially) almost every manufacturer lists their bars as being '05+. Some have been to lazy to include '10 and later years but other manufacturers specifically state that their bars fit '05-'12 S197's. The roof has yet to change and I do not believe there have been any changes to either the rear shock tower stamping or its location relative to each side. That is not to say that minor plastic trim pieces may be affected, but I'd proffer that field verification is the only sure way to be certain (obviously).

And finally, unless I'm missing something, I don't see how the entire main hoop/down bar/shocktower bar and bracket could possibly be 100% welded. Shipping would be a nightmare, let alone installation. You've gotta have a break somewhere...

nota4re

Hey Tob,

Thanks a lot for your very thorough comments and feedback. I don't think I did such a good job of the TIG:MIG comparison. I was really only trying to make the point that for me function AND aesthetics are both important in anything that goes into this car. For me, TIG welds are typically (but not always) better looking than MIG weld and that for this improved "look" there is not a compromise in performance. MIG'd bars, IMO, are NOT inferior in strength to TIG. Perhaps it comes down to personal preference.

I don't think we are compromising strength in the primary function of the harness bar in the design we have done. The harness bar's primary purpose is in anchoring the harnesses and we can predict/model the forces acting on the bar which are almost exclusively directly forward. As such, there could be an argument that this "bowed" bar may even be stronger than a straight bar - but the topic is likely moot because both designs are over-engineered for this purpose. As far as this bar contributing to the overall strength of the primary hoop then, yes, there may be some differences. Our bar design will allow full travel of both the driver and passenger seats AND with more-than-normal recline angle. Not sure how many other solutions will offer this. (As I said, we are late to a market where solutions are already available so we have to find ways to improve and differentiate.)

I'm pretty certain that our fabricator has never seen the MM bulkhead piece and it is definitely a good piece. That said, I think the trangulated piece will find it's way into our very first examples. Hat's off to MM for a fine design in this area but the bulkhead is a naturally strong and attractive location for securing the main hoop.

100% welded AND bolt-in would be the Holy Grail.... but we haven't achieved it either! So, yes, we have included joints in order to make the bars user installable and I will show some pictures of these shortly!

<Sorry readers for another long post/response.... but one more thing to say!>

Our target client is the owner who likes to participate in track events on weekends and during the week, the car is either a daily driver and maybe even a car that the owner likes to take to local car shows and gatherings. The target client wants a bar that will 1) offer increased roll-over protection; 2) allow for the securing and wearing of shoulder harnesses; 3) that looks great installed in the car. A prospective client who is racing more seriously or intends to engage competitively in SCCA events or other wheel to wheel racing venues would be well-served to look at more robust (full) cage kits and most likely, weld-in cages that could meet the SCCA requirements. We don't advertise or try to be the end-all, be-all of roll bars!!

Again, thank you for the feedback.... I gotta make a call now to insure some more gussets are added!

Tob*

Very eloquent! You definitely have my full attention and you can add me to the list of those interested in this offering that owns an '07-'09 S197 chassis car.

Keep up the good work!

GT_350

Since it's been three weeks I thought it would be OK to ask if there are any updates.

I know the first five have been spoken for but when you are ready I'd like to know if you are accepting orders...............

I have a Sparco seat and Schroth harness that are lonely and would like to meet an eligible Roll Bar!

nota4re

Thanks for asking! We're almost there! Sorry it has been so long. I expect 2-3 weeks and this forum will be first to know. I REALLY appreciate the interest!