"Leaked" 2015 Mustang on Dec. cover of Car & Driver
#121
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How much more does the 5.8 weigh compared to the 5.0? I know in 2011 it shed something like 100lbs by switching to aluminum. I'd figure with that much power and some extra weight in back with the IRS that the power can offset much of that weight... Then again I'm not an auto engineer.
#122
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It's "ugly?" Are you guys joking?
The problem with the car hobby is that we all have to buy in at some point...and we end up latching onto the model we own. Cars are just too expensive (for most of us, me included) to buy many of, and the financial hit for trading up for every new model is substantial.
The alternative is to just "dislike" the newer car.
I'm completely thrilled with my 2011 but trying to avoid the standard emotional pitfalls...I can admit that this stings a bit. A lighter car with superior suspension and a superior version of an already great motor? Yeah, I can feel the twinge of envy to you guys who are going to take one home.
I can also admit that I really like the styling...just as good looking to my eye as the '05, '10 and '13 styles, but refreshingly different.
On the plus side, I'm thinking about unloading my 2011 now. I'd love to free up the cash to turn my Dart into the Protouring/Trans Am style back roads machine I have always dreamed of.
The new Dart certainly isn't making the old ones any less fun.
The problem with the car hobby is that we all have to buy in at some point...and we end up latching onto the model we own. Cars are just too expensive (for most of us, me included) to buy many of, and the financial hit for trading up for every new model is substantial.
The alternative is to just "dislike" the newer car.
I'm completely thrilled with my 2011 but trying to avoid the standard emotional pitfalls...I can admit that this stings a bit. A lighter car with superior suspension and a superior version of an already great motor? Yeah, I can feel the twinge of envy to you guys who are going to take one home.
I can also admit that I really like the styling...just as good looking to my eye as the '05, '10 and '13 styles, but refreshingly different.
On the plus side, I'm thinking about unloading my 2011 now. I'd love to free up the cash to turn my Dart into the Protouring/Trans Am style back roads machine I have always dreamed of.
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Last edited by MRGTX; 10/30/13 at 06:47 AM.
#123
It's "ugly?" Are you guys joking?
The problem with the car hobby is that we all have to buy in at some point...and we end up latching onto the model we own. Cars are just too expensive (for most of us, me included) to buy many of, and the financial hit for trading up for every new model is substantial.
The alternative is to just "dislike" the newer car.
I'm completely thrilled with my 2011 but trying to avoid the standard emotional pitfalls...I can admit that this stings a bit. A lighter car with superior suspension and a superior version of an already great motor? Yeah, I can feel the twinge of envy to you guys who are going to take one home.
I can also admit that I really like the styling...just as good looking to my eye as the '05, '10 and '13 styles, but refreshingly different.
On the plus side, I'm thinking about unloading my 2011 now. I'd love to free up the cash to turn my Dart into the Protouring/Trans Am style back roads machine I have always dreamed of.
The new Dart certainly isn't making the old ones any less fun.
The problem with the car hobby is that we all have to buy in at some point...and we end up latching onto the model we own. Cars are just too expensive (for most of us, me included) to buy many of, and the financial hit for trading up for every new model is substantial.
The alternative is to just "dislike" the newer car.
I'm completely thrilled with my 2011 but trying to avoid the standard emotional pitfalls...I can admit that this stings a bit. A lighter car with superior suspension and a superior version of an already great motor? Yeah, I can feel the twinge of envy to you guys who are going to take one home.
I can also admit that I really like the styling...just as good looking to my eye as the '05, '10 and '13 styles, but refreshingly different.
On the plus side, I'm thinking about unloading my 2011 now. I'd love to free up the cash to turn my Dart into the Protouring/Trans Am style back roads machine I have always dreamed of.
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This was one of the reasons I got it - it stayed true to its roots. Some might argue the Camaro did the same thing, and I agree, only it did it horribly. The Challenger for me is the ultimate looker because it did a perfect job with the exterior, but everything else just sucks. With the Mustang, it was the perfect combo of retro + performance and driveability. And while I realize it had to be changed at some point, I didn't want it to resemble another car, which in this case is a Ford Escort, which is already a blend of Aston Martin + Mitsubishi Evo. The mustang was never mistaken to be another car, other cars were mistaken for it.
This concept looks alot like a mitsubishi Evo coupe
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#125
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What DI fanatics fail to remember is that moving the injector from intake port to the combustion chamber also eliminates the latent cooling that occurs when the fuel converts from a liquid into a gas and increases the density of the air going into the cylinder. DI engines receive hot air (and that air gets hotter because the intake valve isn't cooled by the spray of fuel either, its cooled by the air as it moves past the valve and a heat exchange takes place).
Its also the reason why carbureted engines typically produce better peak numbers compared to their fuel injected and direct injected counterparts.
GM's LT1 didn't really see a huge increase in peak power with DI but it saw a fairly substantial increase in torque for a good part of the RPM range, GM likes to point out that the LT1 matches the LS7 in torque across most of the lower rev range.
Now Ford could put that to good use and pump up torque in the lower to mid rev range then tune (short runner intake, bigger ports, more aggressive cams) the engine for better high RPM operation and gain a good amount of power with the an "invisible" loss of torque at the bottom end.
Last edited by bob; 10/30/13 at 08:39 AM.
#127
Depends, DI allows higher compression ratios and more aggressive spark timing so that where the power mostly comes from also in a F/I engine you can run a/f ratios closer to an N/A car for some gain there as well.
What DI fanatics fail to remember is that moving the injector from intake port to the combustion chamber also eliminates the latent cooling that occurs when the fuel converts from a liquid into a gas and increases the density of the air going into the cylinder. DI engines receive hot air (and that air gets hotter because the intake valve isn't cooled by the spray of fuel either, its cooled by the air as it moves past the valve and a heat exchange takes place).
Its also the reason why carbureted engines typically produce better peak numbers compared to their fuel injected and direct injected counterparts.
GM's LT1 didn't really see a huge increase in peak power with DI but it saw a fairly substantial increase in torque for a good part of the RPM range, GM likes to point out that the LT1 matches the LS7 in torque across most of the lower rev range.
Now Ford could put that to good use and pump up torque in the lower to mid rev range then tune (short runner intake, bigger ports, more aggressive cams) the engine for better high RPM operation and gain a good amount of power with the an "invisible" loss of torque at the bottom end.
What DI fanatics fail to remember is that moving the injector from intake port to the combustion chamber also eliminates the latent cooling that occurs when the fuel converts from a liquid into a gas and increases the density of the air going into the cylinder. DI engines receive hot air (and that air gets hotter because the intake valve isn't cooled by the spray of fuel either, its cooled by the air as it moves past the valve and a heat exchange takes place).
Its also the reason why carbureted engines typically produce better peak numbers compared to their fuel injected and direct injected counterparts.
GM's LT1 didn't really see a huge increase in peak power with DI but it saw a fairly substantial increase in torque for a good part of the RPM range, GM likes to point out that the LT1 matches the LS7 in torque across most of the lower rev range.
Now Ford could put that to good use and pump up torque in the lower to mid rev range then tune (short runner intake, bigger ports, more aggressive cams) the engine for better high RPM operation and gain a good amount of power with the an "invisible" loss of torque at the bottom end.
What gets me worried about DI is there is anecdotal reports from the Audi side and VW side of intake valve fouling due to DI.
I do believe Ford will end up going the DI route only because of CAFE and emissions requirements sooner or later, might as well be sooner.
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Dave
#128
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I know GM has installed a fairly complex system for scrubbing the PCV system of oil for that very reason.
I know DI is pretty nice tech but I'm not a huge fan for the reason you cite and the limitations it imposes on modifying the engine for big power.
Granted if Ford introduces DI on the next Mustang it will cover most of the typical bolt on crowd with the exception of power adder people who will most likely have to use some sort of supplemental fuel injection scheme as its simply not a matter of being able to install a BAP or bigger pumps or easily replaced injectors.
This is definetly a case where I think "don't fix it if it ain't broke" applies or well long enough for DI to mature in the performance aftermarket and modding a DI engine for serious to extreme power is no more difficult than modding a current port injected engine.
#130
That's the elephant in the room nobody wants to talk about, wasn't it BMW that was/is replacing coked up cylinder heads under warranty?
BMW so far hasn't had anything like this...now High Pressure Fuel Pumps on the N54 (335i) thats another whole other ballgame..
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If I sell my 2013 E92 M3, which I just love, it would be for a Mustang. I think the new Stang is going to finally be the kind of car I have thought it could be for the last 10 years.
Dave
Last edited by Dave07997S; 10/30/13 at 01:27 PM.
#131
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Dave, i remember reading and maybe youtube videos on the intake valve messing up with carbon on the Audi and VW's. Also, the v6 Camaro could not make the 304 horsepower without going with DI. I feel the 2015 5.0 will have to have DI. Just saying......
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#132
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#133
Since I'm targeting the 2015 GT for purchase next year, the selfish part of me hopes that if the 430 HP number thrown out by the Morpace survey is accurate, that those numbers/engine stand for at least the 2015 and 2016 model years. When I bought my GTO in 2004 I got a big dose of buyers remorse the following year for 2005 when GM put in the LS2 with 400 HP over the 350 in my LS1. (Not to mention the dual exhaust tips and scooped hood) I'd hate to fall into the "trap" again in buying a 430 HP 2015 Mustang GT and finding out that the 2016 Mustang GT would have a 480 to 500 HP direct injected 5.0 V8. I know its always a crapshoot on these things but I'd at least like to have the top dog GT for more than a single model year.
#134
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Don't think it will have DI to start. Think we will see it a year or two down the road. To up the mpg and hp and to give a bump in sales after the new Camaro comes out. They can get 430-350 pretty easily as it sits now. And the better aero and lighter weight will help with mpg from the start. Think they are focused on other areas and will keep powertrain development for later.
#135
I hope we never see a turbo V8 in a Mustang! Turbos are for puny engines. Not for muscle cars.
#136
Can't please everyone.
The Shelby drives remarkably well into and out of turns for a 3900lb nose-heavy car. No one buys a Shelby for gas mileage. No one. The '13 and '14 Shelbys are unapologetic about what they are. They're also worth every single penny paid.
Want an M3? Go buy an M3.
The Shelby drives remarkably well into and out of turns for a 3900lb nose-heavy car. No one buys a Shelby for gas mileage. No one. The '13 and '14 Shelbys are unapologetic about what they are. They're also worth every single penny paid.
Want an M3? Go buy an M3.
#137
The funy thing is, most Euro V-8s don't even sound like a V-8, at least nothing like an American V-8. The other day we were all gathering and somebody showed up with a BMW V-8 and we were just commenting how an American V-6 actually sounds better.
#138
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As for turbo V8s in general, just saw a video where a stock TT 4.something Audi S8 did a quarter in under 12 sec and over 120mph. If turbos on a V8 can fling a fat luxo barge down the quarter at that clip, sign me up!
#139
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I've seen a white Jaguar F-Type (the V8-S model) driving around my neighborhood a few times and it sounds absolutely brutal. Same thing with a lot of the Maserati V8's. They sound so refined and classy but just so angry at the same time.
#140
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Yeah that supercharged F-Type sounds nasty. But what's funny about the sound comments are everyone has said the same thing every time they change it. When they went to the 4.6 from the pushrod 5.0 they said it sounds wrong. And the same with the new 5.0. It's all in the exhaust tuning. Just like the difference in sound from the h-pipe and x-pipe. And someone is drunk if they think a V-6 sounds better than an M3