conv_stang

The supercharged 5.8 is gonna weigh a lot less than a direct injected twin turbo 5.0. Direct injection is gonna add weight, then you got 2 turbos, intercooler and all the extra piping. Only big difference will be center of gravity bc the turbos will be mounted lower. Instead of on top of the engine like the supercharger.

MRGTX

It's "ugly?" Are you guys joking?

The problem with the car hobby is that we all have to buy in at some point...and we end up latching onto the model we own. Cars are just too expensive (for most of us, me included) to buy many of, and the financial hit for trading up for every new model is substantial.

The alternative is to just "dislike" the newer car.

I'm completely thrilled with my 2011 but trying to avoid the standard emotional pitfalls...I can admit that this stings a bit. A lighter car with superior suspension and a superior version of an already great motor? Yeah, I can feel the twinge of envy to you guys who are going to take one home.

I can also admit that I really like the styling...just as good looking to my eye as the '05, '10 and '13 styles, but refreshingly different.

On the plus side, I'm thinking about unloading my 2011 now. I'd love to free up the cash to turn my Dart into the Protouring/Trans Am style back roads machine I have always dreamed of. The new Dart certainly isn't making the old ones any less fun.

Mu5tang_GT

While I agree that a lot of people will bury their insecurities through bashing this new car's looks, no one can deny that it will be "better". But "better looking" ? Nope. Maybe I'll buy it based on the insane performance figure, but the looks, as of now, sure are disappointing. The Mustang, with the S197, did a really amazing job of catching that original design and adding to it the future freshness.

This was one of the reasons I got it - it stayed true to its roots. Some might argue the Camaro did the same thing, and I agree, only it did it horribly. The Challenger for me is the ultimate looker because it did a perfect job with the exterior, but everything else just sucks. With the Mustang, it was the perfect combo of retro + performance and driveability. And while I realize it had to be changed at some point, I didn't want it to resemble another car, which in this case is a Ford Escort, which is already a blend of Aston Martin + Mitsubishi Evo. The mustang was never mistaken to be another car, other cars were mistaken for it.

This concept looks alot like a mitsubishi Evo coupe

cinque35

^ hey it's the new 4dr mustang!

bob

Depends, DI allows higher compression ratios and more aggressive spark timing so that where the power mostly comes from also in a F/I engine you can run a/f ratios closer to an N/A car for some gain there as well.

What DI fanatics fail to remember is that moving the injector from intake port to the combustion chamber also eliminates the latent cooling that occurs when the fuel converts from a liquid into a gas and increases the density of the air going into the cylinder. DI engines receive hot air (and that air gets hotter because the intake valve isn't cooled by the spray of fuel either, its cooled by the air as it moves past the valve and a heat exchange takes place).

Its also the reason why carbureted engines typically produce better peak numbers compared to their fuel injected and direct injected counterparts.

GM's LT1 didn't really see a huge increase in peak power with DI but it saw a fairly substantial increase in torque for a good part of the RPM range, GM likes to point out that the LT1 matches the LS7 in torque across most of the lower rev range.

Now Ford could put that to good use and pump up torque in the lower to mid rev range then tune (short runner intake, bigger ports, more aggressive cams) the engine for better high RPM operation and gain a good amount of power with the an "invisible" loss of torque at the bottom end.

Tron

Where the heck do yall see the rear end at?

Dave07997S

Mainly DI has its advantages in FI applications, but Porsche managed to DI their H6s to good affect. The 3.8L went from 355hp to 385 in 2009 and now up to 400hp for the 991S and not to mention the improved fuel economy these cars now get. The new 991S gets almost 27mpg highway for 400hp, infact I know of someone who was able to pull down 30mpg hwy and 21 city...amazing.

What gets me worried about DI is there is anecdotal reports from the Audi side and VW side of intake valve fouling due to DI.

I do believe Ford will end up going the DI route only because of CAFE and emissions requirements sooner or later, might as well be sooner.

Dave

bob

That's the elephant in the room nobody wants to talk about, wasn't it BMW that was/is replacing coked up cylinder heads under warranty?

I know GM has installed a fairly complex system for scrubbing the PCV system of oil for that very reason.

I know DI is pretty nice tech but I'm not a huge fan for the reason you cite and the limitations it imposes on modifying the engine for big power.

Granted if Ford introduces DI on the next Mustang it will cover most of the typical bolt on crowd with the exception of power adder people who will most likely have to use some sort of supplemental fuel injection scheme as its simply not a matter of being able to install a BAP or bigger pumps or easily replaced injectors.

This is definetly a case where I think "don't fix it if it ain't broke" applies or well long enough for DI to mature in the performance aftermarket and modding a DI engine for serious to extreme power is no more difficult than modding a current port injected engine.

cinque35

it on the 360 view on C&D, looks just like the 2010.. but it's just their rendering

Dave07997S

VW and Audi (same company, as is Porsche now). Keep in mind they were early adopters of this technology and I believe by the time Ford would equip their cars with this technology this could probably be solved.

BMW so far hasn't had anything like this...now High Pressure Fuel Pumps on the N54 (335i) thats another whole other ballgame..

If I sell my 2013 E92 M3, which I just love, it would be for a Mustang. I think the new Stang is going to finally be the kind of car I have thought it could be for the last 10 years.

Dave

David Young

Dave, i remember reading and maybe youtube videos on the intake valve messing up with carbon on the Audi and VW's. Also, the v6 Camaro could not make the 304 horsepower without going with DI. I feel the 2015 5.0 will have to have DI. Just saying......

Mustango

Hey look! It's a Jaguar! No, it's an Aston kitcar! Nope it's a...(reads badge) Mustang?

Mustango

Well, just don't buy in the first year then. First adopters are always beta testers, with any product, in any industry. And you know what Beta stands for right? The B in beta?

conv_stang

Don't think it will have DI to start. Think we will see it a year or two down the road. To up the mpg and hp and to give a bump in sales after the new Camaro comes out. They can get 430-350 pretty easily as it sits now. And the better aero and lighter weight will help with mpg from the start. Think they are focused on other areas and will keep powertrain development for later.

Mustango

If I want a German car, I buy a German car!

I hope we never see a turbo V8 in a Mustang! Turbos are for puny engines. Not for muscle cars.

Mustango

Ditto!

Mustango

The funy thing is, most Euro V-8s don't even sound like a V-8, at least nothing like an American V-8. The other day we were all gathering and somebody showed up with a BMW V-8 and we were just commenting how an American V-6 actually sounds better.

rhumb

You should hear some AMGs or Jag Rs of late - exhaust notes that would shame a NASCAR racer.

As for turbo V8s in general, just saw a video where a stock TT 4.something Audi S8 did a quarter in under 12 sec and over 120mph. If turbos on a V8 can fling a fat luxo barge down the quarter at that clip, sign me up!

mrp5150

+1

I've seen a white Jaguar F-Type (the V8-S model) driving around my neighborhood a few times and it sounds absolutely brutal. Same thing with a lot of the Maserati V8's. They sound so refined and classy but just so angry at the same time.

conv_stang

Yeah that supercharged F-Type sounds nasty. But what's funny about the sound comments are everyone has said the same thing every time they change it. When they went to the 4.6 from the pushrod 5.0 they said it sounds wrong. And the same with the new 5.0. It's all in the exhaust tuning. Just like the difference in sound from the h-pipe and x-pipe. And someone is drunk if they think a V-6 sounds better than an M3