newpony

I don't see Ford or any car company selling 150k sports/muscle/car ever no matter what they do. People are into SVU/Crossover vehicles right now. That's what selling right now. Back when Ford was selling 200k Mustangs there weren't many affordable sports cars to choose from. Now people have a little bit more choices. If think about it, selling 80-90k in this convenience/practically driven market is not bad all. Let's face it,sports cars is a dying breed.

elfiero

This thread is a very interesting read! I guess My wife and I fall into the category of those who started out in Fords and Chevys, and branched out to "foreign" cars when eveything domestic went to crap in the late '90s. I/we came back to Ford last year when: first my Honda ridgeline died- I replaced with a coyote powered F150, and then her BRAND NEW 2013 Accord turned out to be a horribly under-engineered POS. She asked: what should I buy? I spent about two months researching and replied: Wait for the '15 mustang, and order what you want. I would have NEVER recommended she buy a s197, as they were extremely crude as compared to this s550. I/we are the folks Ford is depending on to make this car a success, NOT the folks that have kept it alive for the last 20 years. I don't mean to sound like an a__, but this car IS aimed at folks that are looking for affordable decent performance. As a plus, I appreciate the fact it's from a company that didn't take a buyout. The only problem I have seen with this whole concept is the dealer network: They still seem to think they are living in the 80s. The customer service from ALL perspectives is....Lacking.

SouthernStang79

When I think about it... perhaps I am not liking what ford is currentlydoing with the styling of the current cars..

I prefer the old style in the ford escapes over the new. The new one justlooks...strange to me. I am sure that they perform better, get better gas mileageand may last longer in the end but I just can get past the looks. My in-lawsown one and love it.. but me.. eh...

The new mustang.. while nice just doesn’t appeal to me as much as the S197.Perhaps when they refresh it in a few years ill change my mind but it currentlydoesn’t pull at my wallet and I have sat in a few of them now.

The new F-150 is probably my favorite of the recent redesigns but... itsstill missing something....maybe when I see one in person it’ll change mymind...

I love fords and that is all I have bought since I canremember because they always appealed to me. If I was in the market for a newcar today… I don’t know what I would do….

Sad to think that I am falling out of the mainstreamconsumer that ford is currently targeting..and I am only 35….

3point7

Well with all due respect "affordable and decent performance" is exactly what the Mustang has been giving buyers of the car since about 1965. The S197 car filled that "affordable performance" car option better than any sports coupe on the market since 2005. I'm not in any way saying that the S550 does not also fill that role but your statement made it sound as if the Mustang did not offer affordable performance until the S550 came along and that is simply not the case.

With respect to the car being "crude", as compared to what? I like to keep in mind that the "crude" Mustang(V6) still out performed the much over hyped Scion FR-S on a road course head to head and if anyone tries to claim that the FR-S has an interior that is better than the Mustang interior I'd be the first to laugh in their face. The FR-S truly is crude. But the FR-S is not the only car that the "crude" S197 outperformed. The S197 5.0 and S197 V6 have turned in the 35th and 58th fastest lap times at Willow Springs, besting cars made by Porsche, Ferrari, Aston Martin and some models of the Corvette. It is certainly in good company with respect to its performance level. I know there has been the chorus of claims over the years that label the S197 as crude due almost entirely to the automotive media's love affair with IRS. They are largely just talk with no basis in fact to back it up. The track times speak for themselves. No one can claim that Willow Springs is a drag racing track. The S197 is a car that has always offered good performance and in the 10 to 14 model years it also offers an interior that is easily on par with any Honda Accord or Toyota Camry one could buy.

I wish you and your wife many happy years with your S550. It's a great car and I'm sure it will deliver exactly what you want. I just wanted to take the opportunity to "represent" as it were for those of us who drive the "crude" S197 lol.


http://fastestlaps.com/tracks/willow_springs.html

FlyTexas

Compared to most of the sports sedans and coupes that have far nicer rides?

This right here speaks to the problem.

Who gives a flip about track times? Ok, granted a few people do, but not enough to keep the car on the market at the prices it needs to be at.

The old solid rear axle was supposed to be better for launches, and maybe it was. It was also probably cheaper to make. The new car is a much nicer ride than the last one, which hopped and bounced a lot.

So the "crude" part comes from the primitive ride more than anything else. The interior is nicer now, but it wasn't horrible before.

The V6 Mustang today makes more power than the V8 Mustang of 10 years ago, and frankly the car has more ability than 95% of the people who drive it... myself included...

So it has long past the point where more performance is anything but a pissing contest.

Now it just comes down to daily driver comfort, price, and utility. The price is probably $5K too high, the back seat needs to be 20% larger with more legroom, but otherwise it is fine.

IMHO of course.

FlyTexas

I think a lot of that style is coming from Europe. Ford has been on a 10 year mission to build world cars that they can sell everywhere without developing specific cars for specific markets. This will save them a ton of money and allow them to offer more "car" for the price than other makers.

If you look at the Focus, Escape, Fusion, etc. they all kinda look the same, because they largely are the same. The Focus and Escape are really the same vehicle, the Explorer and Taurus are the same vehicle, etc.

The F-150 and Expedition for some reason have become divorced and that has really hurt sales of the Expedition. A new one is coming in 2017, but it was needed now to compete with the new Tahoe/Suburban that was just released.

As for the Escape, it looks like a "fun" SUV, it was probably designed for 20-30 year olds who are looking for their first "new" vehicle and given the lease deals I've seen on it, they must be moving a lot of them. $250 a month with nothing due at signing for an Escape SE strikes me as pretty reasonable, I keep getting e-mails with offers like that.

If I could get a V6 Mustang for that price, I'd probably take it in a heartbeat.

FlyTexas

I hear you, but I suspect all makes have dealers like that.

My local Ford dealer (just 2.3 miles from my house) is an Autonation and they think these are made out of gold, they don't like discounting and I've had to drive to a dealer further away to get a deal.

I've already been offered an EcoBoost for $1,000 under invoice from a further away dealer (really $500 since there is a rebate), but not on the GT just yet. I give that another 30 days and I suspect that will change.

When a dealer in the Dallas area is ready to offer me the brother-in-law deal on a GT, I'll be ready to buy. I want a yellow one with double black stripes and black wheels and everything on it with an auto, please.

3point7

I'm not a big fan of track times either. I used them in this example to give readers an idea of what these cars are capable of on the street. In this case the point being that the "crude" S197 easily performs as well or better than most other cars on the road by volume.

I've purchased a lot of cars in my years; close to twenty all told. Four of those cars have been Mustangs. I've owned everything from sedans to pickup trucks and SUV's. So I don't subscribe to this notion that the S197 Mustang is some kind of crude, "less than" car because I know better from real world experience. You wan't crude, just about anything from Scion is crude. A Toyota Corolla is crude. I know because I've owned them. There's nothing about a Toyota Camry or a Honda Accord that is better than a Mustang in any respect, even the S197 Mustang. The only thing those cars have is more back seat room and frankly if you're looking for back seat room the Mustang is not the car for you. Sports coupes are not cars designed with back seat passenger comfort in mind.


Okay, show me the sports coupes in the same price range as the Mustang that have a nicer interior and a nicer ride?



PS, the rear end on my car does not hop and bounce a lot, even over rough surfaces it stays pretty well planted.


However if its bounce and wheel hop you're looking for, fear not for the 2015 delivers. Skip ahead in the video to about 4:28 or just watch the whole video because it's a pretty cool car and a good review.

elfiero

Perhaps my description of"crude" for the S197 might not have been a very nice way to phrase it, but as compared to it's competitors of simmilar vintage, the suspension, interiors, and pre-coyote's drivetrains were out-gunned, out engineered, and generally not as coveted. As compared to the fox chassis, and before, it was wonderful! As an FYI, I have owned at least one example of every generation of the Mustang. My first was a '65 FB with a K code 289 & a 4speed. It was black with a red interior- The perfect car for a 16 year old boy! BTW, while your comment about the S197 "outpreforming" some other cars is an absolute fact, that doesn't mean folks that use 'em for a DD care. To be frank, the ride of S550 is the main reason the Mustang found a place on my radar again. That's what I meant when I said Ford is Trying valiantly to make it attractive to everyone that isn't a straight line motorhead. To be an option to the Daily Driver-Grocery Getter crowd, it's got ride great, "seem like" it handles great, it can't sound or look obnoxious, and it MUST have ALL the trendy geegaws. All the afore mentioned traits are not particularly well liked by "gearheads" That's who the GT350 is going to be built for- but you better be ready for sticker shock on that bad-boy.

3point7

I totally agree with you there. For example, I personally couldn't care less if my Mustang won't outrun everything on the road, nor do I want to. I only used that performance example because you had stated that

So in my mind I was thinking that the performance level of the car was of utmost importance to you.

At any rate, as far as I'm concerned, both are great cars that offer a good level of performance for the price point. Both have their strengths and weaknesses as does any car. I personally do not believe in "the perfect car". I believe you buy the car that has the most pros for you and you either work with it to make it better or you just enjoy it as is. That's one of the things that makes the Mustang such a great car is the vast aftermarket allowing owners to change the car to suit their needs. You take the wheel hop issue with the 2015 for example. So what. If it's that big an issue for an owner you know there will be an aftermarket solution to dial that rear end in and keep those wheels planted. Just like there are plenty of aftermarket suspension options to stiffen up the S197 and make it a road course demon if one is so inclined. You can't do that with a doggon Corolla or a Camry I promise you lol.



By the way, K Code 289 Fastback, very nice.

KC3333

^ Bingo!

I'm sure a 550 is in my future. But, I just got new wheels and tires for my V6 PP and I am absolutely thrilled. Slightly higher sidewall took the edge off; wider stance makes it corner even better; cheaper gas encourages me to splurge on premium... it's just a fantastic, sub-30k (new), sharp, comfortable car that is a thrill to drive. Do I have wheel hop? Yes... about once a month for 2 seconds. I can deal with that.

JeffreyDJ

Autonation Frisco? I didn't get X-Plan, but I got right at Invoice (not under) + rebates, plus more for my trade than I expected. They were fair and had the best prices by far of anywhere I could find. My experience there was actually really good.

Also, Five Star Ford in Plano will sell any car at "X-plan" price+rebates, but the finance department there is a joke with the games they play. My recommendation is if you choose to buy AT FSF have your own financing and "don't let them try and beat it."

3point7

Amen brother. I just don't understand the "nicer ride" claims or complaints when it comes to the S197 vs other cars personally. In driving around town just day to day driving I have found the 2014 car to be easily as comfortable as just about any midsize sedan as far as ride quality. Do you feel the bumps a little more? Of course you do, it's a sports coupe with a taught suspension, not a midsize sedan with a ride that induces fits of narcolepsy lol. I suspect the same is true for the S550. I can't imagine it having some luxury sedan sort of ride but I'm betting it's quite comfortable for just running around town or highway cruising just as mine is.

FlyTexas

Yep... Autonation Frisco is where I drove the GT at, they wanted sticker... Granted, that was a few weeks ago, but they didn't want to haggle...

FSF in Plano is where I bought my 2011 Explorer at, they have offered me a GT at Invoice +$1000, which is silly.

That probably is lower now, since Sam Pack's Ford in Lewisville is offering the EcoBoost for $500 under invoice +$500 rebate now, I imagine if I was in person they'd do that on a GT, or I hope they would.

Plano might as well now since it is owned by the same company I think (it has changed changes a few times in the past few years)

Who did you talk to at Autonation Ford in Frisco? Perhaps I'm talking to the wrong person!

elfiero

Try this: Either light acceleration or light deceleration around a 30+mph corner, on rippled, broken up pavement in your S197 and I guarantee the back end will start to "hop" out from under you. THAT, in a nutshell is why I never bothered with a S197- It was "crude" in the suspension dept. Yes, it has a VERY taunt ride, but leaf springs? really? they do the job nicely holding up the back end of my F150, but a sports coupe? Those days were over about half a century ago. In the S550, you might get a few ripples in your latte, but you won't even have to look up from your text. The S197 was an excersize in retro- to revive sales of a platform that was about to be killed. The S550 is the first step to becoming a true world car. Is it perfect? absolutely not, but the bones are good.

JeffreyDJ

At Autonation Frisco I spoke with Scott Alter Sr. I bought mine end of November (11/29) and nothing I was interested in was sticker, including the GTs. Maybe I lucked out on who I spoke with or I got them on a high inventory day on the last Saturday/weekend of the month.

My EB was fully loaded (except for the ACC) and I got in significantly below sticker when all was said and done. It was actually the least painful experience I'd had buying a car in sometime.

Five Star Ford/Plano may have lowered that now (and I do believe they're the same as Lewisville), but I don't know. We bought my wife's explorer limited there. At this point, never again will I go back. There are enough Ford Dealers around (Bob Tomes, North Central) plus the one's we've mentioned that we have plenty of other choices.

At Five Start Ford, they didn't tell the price of car+extra's they were trying to sell. They Used the whole four square payment thing, without an actual price.

It started when they said they could beat our already low rate. We ended up being stuck there an extra 2 hours because of this claim. They "beat it" by .5 percentage point to begin with, but wouldn't even share that info. They just presented a car payment slightly higher to what we already had through our own financing but loaded with junk extras. We almost walked out. We ended up getting a good deal, but that feeling of someone trying to pull the wool over our eyes and wasting our time was not appreciated.

3point7

Leaf springs? The car doesn't use leaf springs elfiero. Whoever you are listening to to get your point of view about the S197's suspension, stop listening to them. They have no idea what they are talking about. The S197 has never used leaf springs. In fact as far as I know there haven't been leaf springs on the Mustang since 1979.


This is an S197 rear suspension. Please point out the leaf springs?



This is an F150 rear suspension. Those are leaf springs.

The two rear suspensions are nothing alike with the exception of both have a solid axle.


As it happens there is a corner that I take everyday on my way to and from work that is exactly as you described above. My car has never felt unsettled, broke loose or bounced through it. It has always stayed planted.

elfiero

You are right, I am wrong! I was misinformed. I'll go lay by my dish.

cdynaco

KC3333

^ Agreed. So much for the "guarantee" I guess.

May I point out that the F150 takes loose and rippled pavement exTREMEly well...