What's the BFD with IRS?
10/15/08, 12:54 PM
#221
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those aren't financials though; thats stock price. financials are income statements, balance sheet and statement of cash flows. there is media bias of course. for example most of the msm is composed of leftist elites; don't know if that transfers to cars or not
10/15/08, 01:07 PM
#222
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It's alright to be loyal to Ford, but let's not blame the media. Ford got itself into this problem and will need to work internally to resolve it.
10/15/08, 01:07 PM
#223
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Go look at ALL manufacturer's numbers, they have all sucked this year. As stated in the last post, those are stock prices which can be and are manipulated by the info the media gives us.
Go to post 187 in this thread and 188. Give me some of Ford bad business decisions. I'm busy at work right now so I cant expand on this at this point.
Last edited by FordBlueHeart; 10/15/08 at 01:18 PM.
10/15/08, 01:12 PM
#224
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we also have to remember that a company will purposely inflate their liabilities in order to receive tax benefits
Last edited by MBK; 10/15/08 at 01:15 PM.
10/15/08, 01:17 PM
#225
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Political? Thats exactly my point! The media puts out the info that they think sells them the most advertising which is doom and gloom, not the truth!
Go look at ALL manufacturer's numbers, they have all sucked this year. As stated in the last post, those are stock prices which can be and are manipulated by the info the media gives us.
Go to post 187 in this thread and 188. Give me some of Ford bad business decisions.
Go look at ALL manufacturer's numbers, they have all sucked this year. As stated in the last post, those are stock prices which can be and are manipulated by the info the media gives us.
Go to post 187 in this thread and 188. Give me some of Ford bad business decisions.
10/15/08, 01:24 PM
#226
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Thats right John, Ford had poor planning. But it hasnt been that way for at least a couple years, if not longer.
Its just that most people who dont work in the business, dont realize that it takes several years for things that are implemented to take place. We have all talked about how the 2010 body was signed off years ago, but yet it still isnt here. Ford said last fall that they were going to bring the Fiesta here, a car that is already being produced in Cologne, but yet we still wont see it until next fall. Things cant happen over night with any manufacturer. Thats what irritates me the most with some of these comments, things arent that way anymore, you are living in the past, not the present. We personally may not see the difference yet, but they are there. To sit here and bash Ford about what happened with previous management is stupid. This company is on the rise despite what the media tells us. Doom and gloom sells. When they do tell us about a company doing well, we say "yeah, thats what is supposed to happen, thats what we expect." Thats not as sensational as "They are about to go under!"
Its just that most people who dont work in the business, dont realize that it takes several years for things that are implemented to take place. We have all talked about how the 2010 body was signed off years ago, but yet it still isnt here. Ford said last fall that they were going to bring the Fiesta here, a car that is already being produced in Cologne, but yet we still wont see it until next fall. Things cant happen over night with any manufacturer. Thats what irritates me the most with some of these comments, things arent that way anymore, you are living in the past, not the present. We personally may not see the difference yet, but they are there. To sit here and bash Ford about what happened with previous management is stupid. This company is on the rise despite what the media tells us. Doom and gloom sells. When they do tell us about a company doing well, we say "yeah, thats what is supposed to happen, thats what we expect." Thats not as sensational as "They are about to go under!"
10/15/08, 01:30 PM
#227
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Political? Thats exactly my point! The media puts out the info that they think sells them the most advertising which is doom and gloom, not the truth!
Go look at ALL manufacturer's numbers, they have all sucked this year. As stated in the last post, those are stock prices which can be and are manipulated by the info the media gives us.
Go to post 187 in this thread and 188. Give me some of Ford bad business decisions. I'm busy at work right now so I cant expand on this at this point.
Go look at ALL manufacturer's numbers, they have all sucked this year. As stated in the last post, those are stock prices which can be and are manipulated by the info the media gives us.
Go to post 187 in this thread and 188. Give me some of Ford bad business decisions. I'm busy at work right now so I cant expand on this at this point.
The sales have sucked for other mfgs. Toyota and Honda are better equipped for the economic downturn. I will expand on that later.
10/15/08, 01:32 PM
#228
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Hey Blue, I think you would agree with me (I know Max won't) but when is the last time you saw ANY recall of a Japanese car maker advertised on the news like an American Auto Manufacturer's recall? When the Tundra was having problems, they didn't air a thing. Just a small blip and that was it. When the cruise control recall came about for Ford, all the news outlets aired it pretty early in their telecast and often. And the thing they failed to mention (the news that is), was that the cruise control recall affected cars that were no longer on the road (Bronco IIs, Mark VI, VII Lincolns, etc), and were in salvage yards. Yet, the Tundra recall was on a BRAND NEW truck. This is one thing that will drive people away from a manufacturer, and its negative press (be it correctly aired for the proper reason, like a recall that affects a new car, or overboard journalism, like the cruise control recall that, while affecting millions of cars, only a small percentage were still on the road).
None of the manufacturers are looking pretty right now, but what irks me is when people assume the domestics are the only ones in trouble.
10/15/08, 01:32 PM
#229
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This is one thing that will drive people away from a manufacturer, and its negative press (be it correctly aired for the proper reason, like a recall that affects a new car, or overboard journalism, like the cruise control recall that, while affecting millions of cars, only a small percentage were still on the road).
10/15/08, 01:33 PM
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10/15/08, 01:36 PM
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10/15/08, 01:40 PM
#232
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10/15/08, 01:42 PM
#233
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I think the whole domestic vs foreign debate is just as impossible to settle as IRS vs SRA! I think what is happening is that the American buyer lost faith in the domestics during the 80s and it's going to take some time for that faith in domestics to be renewed.
People who follow up on information like quality ratings, consumer reports, customer surveys will know that the American auto makers (Ford and GM) have stepped up big time in quality. They just need to keep doing what they have been doing. Once cars like the Fusion or Cobalt start being known for having reputations like the Camry and Civic that they compete against, they will become equals to Toyota and Honda in the eyes of the public.
Though at the same time we shouldn't look at car mag comparos as the ultimate source of info. Look at all the comparos stating that the Challenger SRT8 is a better overall car than the GT500
!
People who follow up on information like quality ratings, consumer reports, customer surveys will know that the American auto makers (Ford and GM) have stepped up big time in quality. They just need to keep doing what they have been doing. Once cars like the Fusion or Cobalt start being known for having reputations like the Camry and Civic that they compete against, they will become equals to Toyota and Honda in the eyes of the public.
Though at the same time we shouldn't look at car mag comparos as the ultimate source of info. Look at all the comparos stating that the Challenger SRT8 is a better overall car than the GT500
!
10/15/08, 01:46 PM
#234
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I think the whole domestic vs foreign debate is just as impossible to settle as IRS vs SRA! I think what is happening is that the American buyer lost faith in the domestics during the 80s and it's going to take some time for that faith in domestics to be renewed.
People who follow up on information like quality ratings, consumer reports, customer surveys will know that the American auto makers (Ford and GM) have stepped up big time in quality. They just need to keep doing what they have been doing. Once cars like the Fusion or Cobalt start being known for having reputations like the Camry and Civic that they compete against, they will become equals to Toyota and Honda in the eyes of the public.
Though at the same time we shouldn't look at car mag comparos as the ultimate source of info. Look at all the comparos stating that the Challenger SRT8 is a better overall car than the GT500!
People who follow up on information like quality ratings, consumer reports, customer surveys will know that the American auto makers (Ford and GM) have stepped up big time in quality. They just need to keep doing what they have been doing. Once cars like the Fusion or Cobalt start being known for having reputations like the Camry and Civic that they compete against, they will become equals to Toyota and Honda in the eyes of the public.
Though at the same time we shouldn't look at car mag comparos as the ultimate source of info. Look at all the comparos stating that the Challenger SRT8 is a better overall car than the GT500
!
10/15/08, 02:51 PM
#235
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I'm not quite sure how you don't get what I said. Basically, V8's are better than V6's right? The only time a V6 is better, is if it has a better design (IE VVT, direct injection etc...) Therefore, while a IRS system is better than a SRA system IN GENERAL, Ford has proved that THEIR SRA can be just as good as an IRS system for normal driving and for racing.
10/15/08, 06:50 PM
#236
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You still havent answered my question about what competition. In fact Max hasnt either. All that either of you has done is come up with talking points that you have read or been fed by the media. Maybe you do have the info I asked for, but I havent seen it. I'd like to hear it.
Fine.
You seem to be suggesting that somehow the media is responsible for Ford and GM's self-inflicted wounds because they are biased towards imports. Is that the gist of what you are saying?
While I agree that the media have been tough on domestic automakers in years gone by, a lot of it was deserved. But be aware that Toyota and Hondas recalls have definitely been covered by the mainstream media - along with other import brands - in some cases stretching back as far as 1989:
Tundra recall
Lexus LS400 recall
Honda recalls minivans, suvs
Honda Accord recalls
Mercedes recalls suvs
Those are but five examples of MANY where the mainstream media entities have reported on the problems with import manufacturers. You seem to think that the tail wags the dog in this situation. Nope. The evidence - if you choose to look for it - shows that that's largely urban legend. So your hypothesis just doesn't stand up when conducting unbiased research.
Moreover, NBC is happily flogging the Mustang on Knight Rider and the new Camaro on My Own Worst Enemy. This is more than just sponsorship or product placement, these vehicles are an integral part of the storyline. So much for mainstream media and their corporate owners "hating" on North American vehicles.
Blaming the media for the woes of Ford and GM is a bit like using "the dog ate my homework" argument - a clever way to deflect personal responsibility.
Umm...not really sure how to respond to that. Are you asking me to talk more stupider?
Last edited by Hollywood_North GT; 10/15/08 at 06:53 PM.
10/15/08, 07:02 PM
#237
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I'm not quite sure how you don't get what I said. Basically, V8's are better than V6's right? The only time a V6 is better, is if it has a better design (IE VVT, direct injection etc...) Therefore, while a IRS system is better than a SRA system IN GENERAL, Ford has proved that THEIR SRA can be just as good as an IRS system for normal driving and for racing.
You just said that comeptitors to the mustang don't all use v8's because they can do just as well with 6 and 4 cylinder engines.
Most people would agree that a v8 in general is a better platform as far as performance is concerned.
Yet not everyone goes tha route. Just like Ford doesn't use an IRS because the mustang has a similar handling threshold as their competition.
Most people would agree that a v8 in general is a better platform as far as performance is concerned.
Yet not everyone goes tha route. Just like Ford doesn't use an IRS because the mustang has a similar handling threshold as their competition.
10/15/08, 08:50 PM
#238
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While there are some smaller engines currently available that win the numbers game vs. the Mustang GT, I prefer the torque of a V8, not to mention the rumble it emits when I put my foot down. It achieves this while running on, pretty efficiently so, I might add, on 87 octane fuel.
10/15/08, 09:31 PM
#239
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While there are some smaller engines currently available that win the numbers game vs. the Mustang GT, I prefer the torque of a V8, not to mention the rumble it emits when I put my foot down. It achieves this while running on, pretty efficiently so, I might add, on 87 octane fuel.
10/16/08, 01:49 AM
#240
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Because you're arguing on both sides of the point here >>
So if 6 cylinders can be made to "do just as well", which presumably is your justification for why Ford doesn't need to use IRS and can "do just as well" with SRA, then what makes a V8 a better performance platform...and using what criteria? "Better" how?
So if 6 cylinders can be made to "do just as well", which presumably is your justification for why Ford doesn't need to use IRS and can "do just as well" with SRA, then what makes a V8 a better performance platform...and using what criteria? "Better" how?
And I really don't know what to say to you if you don't believe a v8 is inherently better than a v6. I mean you got 2 extra cylinders as well as more displacement (in general). Mind sharing an example of why a v8 isn't a better platform overall. Again, I thought what I said was quite clear but apparently you aren't getting it (although you are right abouut the bolded part).