The rumor on BON was that the Engineer who originally wanted the Boss name retired during the last round of cut backs and the guy who is in charge of the program now wants to make a name for himself...but one of the problems is that the Name Boss is part of the internal casting on the engine!

 

Thanks Pacettr. I completed that survey as well but don't recall the 5.0L engine expressly described as being sourced from Jaguar, must have missed that part. Thanks for the clarification.

 

I sort of interpreted this from that recent poll, where they listed a 5.0 375hp V8 and also asked, in a separate question, about how people would feel if a motor were sourced from Jaguar, Rover or Mazda. Put the two together, and knowing Jag is developing a 5.0 version of the current 300hp 4.2 AJ motor, that's where I got that. It certainly seems quite plausible and logical.

If Ford's putting its resources into the new big V8, whatever they end up calling the thing, and they need to further develop the AJ motor as a premium V8, then I imagine they probably will be cutting back on developing the Mod motor much more, certainly not making a streetable 5.0 version of it, which, given its tight cylinder spacing, requires some expensive trickery to do. And if they have a perfectly suitable 375hp V8 sitting on their shelves just waiting for a boat ride across the pond to the colonies here...

This also makes sense in light of Mulally's statements about increased sharing amongst the various Ford family siblings and cutting out redundancy. I could see the old Mod motor being phased out and replaced by the 3.5/3.7/TT V6 and AJ V8 at the lower end of the size/torque/power range and the new Boss (or whatever) at the top end of size/torque/power.

Having all three V8 lines in the Ford family, plus the Volvo V8, seems redundant and counter to Mulally's statements and good sense even.

Mazda I could see having a hand in the 3.5TT, given their experience with turbos and also DI.

 

Wasn't there a rumor that the 6.2 Bossrricanium was going to make 440+ horsepower? If that were true, than the actual number shouldn't be too far off from 440, so it would make sense that the 5.8 probably wouldn't excede 400, so wouldn't a 5.0 with 375 hp make the engines a little too close in performance to the point where they might as well just choose either the 5.8 or the 5.0 and not both within the overall Ford line up? Wouldn't that just make things easier, more efficient and less expensive to produce? Unless the 5.0 actually has like less than 350 hp, then I could see having both the 5.0 and 5.8.

I'm not against a 5.0, but considering Ford is trying to revive Jaguar, I would think that sharing parts with Ford branded models might not help Jaguar's new image.

Just my thoughts.

 

The consumer would not even know this. and its the Ford brand getting the jag engine so why would jag buyers care if they even did know.

Theyd put so much engine covering on the jag version that it would be hard to tell visually.

 

The 5.8L boss is expected to make over 400hp N/A

I did read somewhere on SVT under one of the threads that the 5.8L or
6.2L made 700 something horsepower in a test environment....
probably before they blew it up (config unknown)

I would not be surprised to see the 5.8L rated at 400 but underated a bit.
and the 6.2L upwards of 475+hp

 

I could see the 5.8 at an LS2-even 400+, but also quite different from the AJ 5.0 in character deriving from, ostensibly, it's more truckish (for lack of a better term) origin, i.e., bit more emphasis on low-end oomph.

As for the putative "Boss" 5.0 (why were they polling about it if they weren't seriously considering it?), it would come somewhat between some base GT motor (holdover 4.6 at 325hp) and the "CJ" 5.8. Also, it would likely have a very different character, more of a deep-breathing, highly tuned screamer in the spirit of the original Boss 302, which would well suite a home in a neo Boss 302. And that possibility would be revealed by the poll's inquiries regarding IRS and a six speed box, which would be the perfect underpinnings of such a beast. Such a combo would create some real credibility with Euro and Japanese sports coupe buyers and make some real inroads in these previously unconvinced markets.

A Boss 5.0 with a screaming 375hp DOHC motor, tight six speed, monster brakes and agile IRS would make a far more credible alternative to an M3, S4 or 350/370 Z than any current Stang. A good idea, IMHO, than just pandering solely to the base as does the current Stang lineup (doesn't Ford desperately need more customers?)

Of course, the beefy CJ 5.8 would be the perfect motivator for a live axle'd, drag race Mach I, in order to pander to the base and keep those sales safe too. Win-win as I see it.

As for the good name of Jaguar being sullied by association with a mere Mustang? Possible but doubtful presuming it only shows in a well done and highly regarded SE. And the AJ motor itself has already been shared with the Lincoln LS and Ford T-Bird with seemingly few ill effects, not to mention the Duretec 2.5 and 3.0. And certainly there wouldn't be a Jaguar label to be found should it show up in Boss 5.0 guise, its origins being more a matter of enthusiast esoterica. Also, economies of scale would help in making the Jag AJ that much more affordable, now that the LS and T-Bird of bit the dust, rather than keeping it as a Jag- (and Rover-?) only boutique motor.

 

I have to agree with everything rhumb stated. I don't think most Jaguar owners care about the engine much. I would estimate that 95% of Jaguar owners care more about styling and the luxurious interior. For the 5% "performance oriented" Jaguar owners, Ford could put together some sort of special edition or unique engine combination. Remember that the Jaguar market does not have the price ceiling and affordability issues that the Mustang does. The Jaguar performance enthusiast knows he will be doling out top dollar for an XK-R.

 

From Fourcam's post today over at SVTPerformance >>



Sounds like they may now be leveraging the other marques - dropping the in-house engine development plans - as hinted at in the above-referenced survey.

 

Agreed, if a suitable 5.0L engine can be installed in the Mustang making close to 400 hp with a close ratio 6 spd tranny and IRS and package it as a Boss 302, then Ford should do it IMHO. As long as it can compete with the likes of the class standard M3, I would believe Mustang owners would accept a "Jag sourced" engine, especially if it were specially tuned for the Mustang.

For the majority of Jag owners, as long as the car make decent reliable power quietly and has all manner of electronic and luxury appointments, they don't care what engine is under the hood. For the performance enthusiasts, Ford can certainly tweak for higher performance to satisfy their needs.

As others have pointed out, eliminating redundancy in Ford's product offerings will go a long way to improving efficiency and returning the corporation to financial health.

One question for the group, anyone know the specs on the Jag AJ engine? I know very little about the engine other than it is all aluminum alloy with 4V heads. Are the cams chain or belt driven? Currently I believe the AJ engine is only offered in a 4.2L displacement (someone correct me if I'm mis-informed). If the AJ engine were to displace 5.0L what would be the bore/stroke? I'd certainly hope Ford would see fit to offer a Boss Mustang with a rev-happy oversquare engine in a Boss 302 Mustang.

 

[quote=PACETTR;821003]If by recycled engine package you mean arguably the most powerful N/A motor to run on unleaded pump gas ever put into a Mustang, then I am going out to hug a tree. [quote]

Uhm by the numbers ford puts out true, but in the 60's and into the 70's ford limited their numbers for insurance reasons so people could afford the car, a boss 429 was rated at 375, I have seen dyno numbers of 550-565 rwhp and similar trq number at the wheels! the 427 side oiler was around 600 hp and trq at the wheels and 700ish at the crank

 

[quote=DynamicmustangGT;867825][quote=PACETTR;821003]If by recycled engine package you mean arguably the most powerful N/A motor to run on unleaded pump gas ever put into a Mustang, then I am going out to hug a tree. Read it S-L-O-W-L-Y...

 

The current AJ-V8 which has been made in 3.9L, 4.0L & 4.2L plus the AM 4.4L variant have chain driven cams. They have a primary chain that drives the intake cams and a small secondary chain that drives the exhaust cams.

The 3.9L version as used in the Lincoln LS & 2 seat T-Bird has 86mm bore & 85mm stroke. The Jag 4.2L version has an 86mm bore and 90.3mm stroke. The current US version of the AJ-4.2 normally aspirated is rated at 300 HP & 310 lb ft. The supercharged R version makes 400 hp & 413 lb ft.

The AJ V8 is an incredibly smooth and refined engine right up to it's 6500 RPM redline. Most Mod Motors feel like a lawn mower engine compared to a AJ-V8. The 4.6L, 3V mod motor aluminum block casting borrowed some NVH improving techniques from the AJ-V8 to improve it's NVH.

The rumor, and is is only a rumor is that the new 5.0L Jag V8 is essentually a scaled up version of the present AJ-V8.

 

Thanks V10 for the info. I'll withhold my final view until the rumor becomes a reality but it certainly seems like a promising direction and definitely follows a "Boss 302" theme. All we can hope for is if Ford does ever produce a new Boss 302 Mustang that it will be faithful to the original in theme and provide a well-balanced chassis, exceptional handling and braking and a smooth, powerful free-revving V8 under the hood. Just hope we don't have to wait too long..