http://www.svtperformance.com/forums...d.php?t=352984


So it looks like Ford will debut another all new model with carry over powertrains...

 

Fourcam is reliable for info...

Seems things have changed in the last little while, and COULD change again (hoping they do)

- 5.4L 4v 380hp Boss SE
while a step up in the HP/displacement... when we have a newer motor coming, just seems like its thrown to get out the door until that new motor arrives. If this car appears before 2010 and the competition. It'll be pretty good.

-5.8L Mustang GT
If the old mod 5.4 4v can make 380hp, no reason this new 2v can't make 380-400hp. SO...that's good news, but not great news.
Although I'd really love to have seen displacement VS displacement (6.2L Boss engine VS 6.2L LS3 engine in the Camaro Z28/SS or whatever)

At least the displacement has grown... good...
But with the larger engines, could have been better.
And not that power has dictated sales before, we know the stang outsold the overpowered rival... but I think most of us would like to compete closer than before.

***but yes it seems that if the redesign comes in 2010, and the engine isn't in till 2011...
That current engines will be used for the first year. (DOES NOT mean they will be rated the same however....***

 

Certainly, from my perspective a MAJOR disappointment. Basically, a recycled engine combination ('00 Cobra R) in a new appearance package. If Ford goes this route, it would be a mistake in my view. The iron block 5.4L is a heavy, RPM limited engine (even in all alloy aluminum it has limited RPM potential) and that certainly doesn't fit the overall theme of a Boss Mustang. The original Boss 302 was a thinly veiled race car with a high RPM 302 screamer under the hood. The engine combination described in that thread sounds more like a perfect candidate for a Mach I, NOT a Boss. If Ford truly went back to the drawing board (as was rumored) to design a Boss that met enthusiasts demands, they really missed the mark.

If Saleen can make 400 hp using a stroked 4.6L with 3V heads, what is wrong with Ford? I realize the Cammer is probably a pipe dream for a street Mustang, but Ford needs to offer that level of NA HP, torque and performance in a Boss model, otherwise the car is nothing more than a marketing gimick. IMHO, if Ford can't offer a legitimate successor to the Boss 302, then a Boss Mustang shouldn't be offered until a suitable engine is available. If that means we have to wait until MY '10 for a H/Boss based Boss Mustang then so be it. Please Ford, don't ruin one of the most hallowed names in the Mustang legacy by offering a recycled engine package in the Boss

 

First, remember that the Boss 302 and it's rev happy nature did not represent the only 'recipe' for a Boss Mustang. The Boss 429 was straight-up, old-school big-block, and the Boss 351, while rev-happy, was something less in this respect than the Boss 302 was. I would guess that something like this would be far more akin to a spiritual successor to the Boss 351, again a rev happy setup in it's own right in light of the time, but not quite to the extreme the Boss 302 went.

That said the Cobra R made it's peak hp at 6200rpm so I would guess that the new model, which will almost certainly be employing the GT500's heads, would be in the same ballpark. The motor would seem likely to possess much improves torque characteristics as well in light of the head swap. The only people I can see this seriously disappointing, iron block aside, are those in the hardcore Boss 302 revival camp.

 

Is it the same 5.4 4v from the Australian FPV Boss 290 Falcon? If yes, then I think Motor Trend assumed that when they did that computer animated thing putting the next Camaro up against it. Bringing that engine over couldn't hurt, it's better than nothing if the 5.8 isn't ready...

 

While the Boss 302 wasn't the only Boss Mustang produced, it is one of the most complete Mustangs ever produced by Ford - capable of more than straight line acceleration. The Boss 302 IS original Boss Mustang the and the model mostly closely identified with the Boss name. Remember the Boss 429 was only produced because Ford needed to certify the semi-hemi head 429 engine for NASCAR competition and needed a car to install it in. They chose the Mustang to make a statement on the street and certify the engine. The Boss 351 was a good compromise between the two offering the torque of a bigger engine with decent handling.

Some people may find a Boss Mustang with a 5.4L engine perfectly fine for them, however I am not one of them. A true Boss needs to be directed toward a very under-served segment of the Mustang market - the road race, open track balanced performance set - those that value handling and braking equally with HP and torque. If Ford wants to use the iron block 5.4L engine in the Mustang, introduce a Mach I model before the Boss if a suitable engine isn't avaiable for a Boss Mustang. A non-S/C'd 5.4L from the GT500 would be the perfect Mach I powerplant but NOT for a Boss. As I stated before, I'd rather Ford delay the Boss until a suitable Hurricane/Boss engine is availabe rather than put something to market that is not in keeping with the original Boss 302 theme.

 

I agree. Bring back the Mach 1 with the 5.4L iron block N/A 5.4 and wait for the new Boss engine is available to do a Boss Mustang.

380HP doesn't sound like much of a stretch considering the HP of the Cobra R. Scaling up the last Mach 1 4.6L, 4V to 5.4L would give 376 HP. So it sounds like Ford will be mostly using current parts for the Boss 5.4 and not doing all that much new development.

 

Well considering that the Boss 302 had the craptastic 4V Cleveland heads, its no wonder it was a high RPM screamer, It had to be a high RPM screamER just to get out of its own way. The Boss 351 like the later LT-1 powered Z-28 Camaros were way better cars simply due to addition of a few cubic inches.

However if people are that diehard for a "real" Boss engine until the Hurricane derived Boss engines come out, Ford just has to slap the GT500 cylinderheads on a 4.6, eliminate the charge motion control plates and presto! Modern day Boss 302. To bad the car will be a frigg'n slug with even the lowly 3v GTs showing the Boss car thier taillights.

 

Looks like the BOSS is going to be a BOSS 351.

 

Think it could confuse people too in the future.

Boss mustang with a no boss engine,
and a mustang with a boss engine, thats not a boss...

 

Hmm, seems like Ford is going, "Hey, when GT500 production ends, remove the Shelby badging and the blower and presto, you have a Boss (351/429)!" Cheap, simple, easy, and probably doable for '09 since it doesn't require much in engineering or development effort. The 302 version IMO, is the most iconic of the 3 versions produced as far as the Boss name goes and the future version should be a spiritual successor to that.

 

I don't know that I'd say that. As you know efficieny, in terms of hp per liter, tends to go down as displacement goes up if everything else stays the same. And while I don't expect a lot of development either, with the major upgrade relative to past models being the GT500 heads, I'd still guess that this is a little stouter than a 5.4L 'Mach-1' V-8 would have been.

That said the new Boss V-8 can't get here soon enough for me either.

 

Certainly the old 4V Cleveland heads were no low speed torque kings but they were not intended to be either. Additionally, the Boss 351 was a much larger, heavier car than it's predessors which necessitated more cubes.

As far as a "real" Boss engine, the intention should be to produce an over-square rev-happy engine with a broad naturally aspirated power band. A 5.4L anything does not provide that in any format as it is under square by design.

I couldn't agree more!!

Me neither, I'd love the see it in a Mustang as soon as MY '09 but sadly it appears that may not be the case.

 

Naw, the undersquare nature of the 5.4 isn't a shortcoming with the GT500 heads, plenty of flow relative to the bore size, and there are many undersquare engine designs out there which have a reputation for being rev happy engines with good powerbands (Acura, BMW, Lambroghini, etc) If I were to pick something that limits the 5.4, I'd say the narrow bearing widths are the biggest issue. Stroke is a bit long, but not much longer than than the stroke in an LS7.

Piston speed at 7,000 RPM would be 4859 feet per minute, still lower than an S2000 or a Gallardo. However the orginal Boss 302 was factory limited to 6150 and I beleive the current GT500 is limited to 6250 - So much for rev happy motors. Just standing back and looking at things, a N/A 5.4 equipped with the GT500 cylinderheads isn't all that bad and would be a good successor to the original boss motors.

 

If the bore is increased so valve area is greater, a larger displacement engine can be more efficient in HP/L.

If the photos of the mainfold are indicitive of what the new upgraded N/A 5.4 will get, then HP should scale pretty close to the displacement increase.

 

Sure and undersquare engine can be made to rev freely but the mod engine 5.4L design (undersquare, narrow bearing widths, longish stroke) doesn't lend itself to that type of use without an investment of performance parts. Given the lame duck nature of the mod engine program, I don't see Ford investing an sizable dollars in any performance versions regardless of displacement.

Additionally, an iron block 5.4L is a heavy engine and Ford needs to get the weight down on a Boss Mustang to create better weight distribution and the desired level of handling and braking performance. While an AL 5.4L might alievate the weight issues, we know Ford isn't going to cast up an expensive AL 5.4L given the impending introduction of the Boss/Hurricane engine series.

I still maintain my stance that a 5.4L engine should NOT be used in the Boss Mustang. A non SC'd iron block 5.4L engine is perfect for a Mach I but not for the Boss. Why can't Ford offer such an engine package in an '09 Mach I and hold the Boss until MY '10 when a suitable Boss/Hurricane engine will be available?

 

The 5.4 is a fine engine for a Boss car. The engine worked perfect in the 2000 Cobra R which is pretty much in the same spirit as a Boss 302. Factory road racer.

It would be nice if they could get 400hp out of it. which isn't impossible since 2000 Cobra Rs have dynoed 375rwhp which would be around 440hp.

 

I agree, well said.

 

Tru'dat, I realize the advantage to an oversquare design.However, has anybody taken a look at the flow figures for the GT500 heads? IIRC on a 3.550 bore (or whatever the mod motor uses) these things flow right close to or at 300 cfm and I've read where the heads can be ported for a gain in the 330 to 350 cfm range and if you put a big bore sleeve in and hog the cylinder out to a 3.70" bore, the GT500 heads can be good for 400 cfm. Call me crazy, but 300 cfm is a helluva lot of airflow (hell if its only 280 or even 250 cfm thats still good) especially on a 330 CI motor. Hence my belief that a 5.4 boss motor isn't all that bad and the character of the motor will really come down to the engine tune and gearing. Give it a forged rotating assembly and it will be a really good engine. The only thing Ford could do to make it better would be the inclusion of VVT and some sort of variable runner intake maybe combined with the charge motion plates to really give the engine a beefy power curve.

 

If by recycled engine package you mean arguably the most powerful N/A motor to run on unleaded pump gas ever put into a Mustang, then I am going out to hug a tree.


Not trying to bust your , because I am in the 5.0 Cammer/6-sp/IRS camp, but I would not be at all disappointed in a 400+ hp N/A 4-valve under the hood of the Boss (well, maybe a little, until I had a chance to stab the throttle a time or two )