engine news
Legacy TMS Member
Joined: May 16, 2004
Posts: 5,206
Likes: 18
From: Bristol, TN
So, if the Shelby power adder system weighs in the neighborhood of 160 to 200 lbs., then essentially using a N/A iron block 4v 5.4 would be the same as slapping said power adder system on an S/C aluminum block 3v 4.6, but with a lower center of gravity. This really begs the question then, what do the power adder systems (which use the AL 4.6 3v) installed on the Roush and Saleen mustangs weigh? Seems to me that both cars do not have a reputation for piggish handling and if the power adder systems do weigh nearly the same as the Shelby gear then it seems to me that an N/A iron block 4v 5.4 isn't such a bad deal.
GT Member
Joined: July 30, 2004
Posts: 187
Likes: 0
After the removal of the supercharger, intercooler and plumbing(and attendant weight distribution shift) a iron 5.4 wth the GT heads should weigh about 220lbs less than the dressed GT500 engine. Another 90 for an aluminium block and suddenly the 52/48 weight distribution is posssible.
Team Mustang Source
Joined: January 29, 2004
Posts: 6,730
Likes: 3
All of this sounds way to complicated and unnecessary. A simple aluminum block n/a 5.4 with 3V heads and a tune can certainly get 350-375hp with lots of torque and cost only a smidge more then the 4.6 3V. That motor, a T56, FRPP suspension upgrade, and GT500 brakes would make an affordable SE with plenty of go with virtually all off-the-shelf parts.
Shelby GT350 Member
Joined: March 11, 2004
Posts: 2,146
Likes: 1
All of this sounds way to complicated and unnecessary. A simple aluminum block n/a 5.4 with 3V heads and a tune can certainly get 350-375hp with lots of torque and cost only a smidge more then the 4.6 3V. That motor, a T56, FRPP suspension upgrade, and GT500 brakes would make an affordable SE with plenty of go with virtually all off-the-shelf parts.
I agree, except that there is no "off the shelf" 5.4 aluminum block (Ford GT block doesn't count, it's too specilized & expensive). With Ford gearing up for the new Boss V8, chances of us getting an aluminum 5.4 block is somewhere below slim and none.
Also, T56 is out, T6060 is in.
Shelby GT350 Member
Joined: March 11, 2004
Posts: 2,146
Likes: 1
Team Mustang Source
Joined: January 29, 2004
Posts: 6,730
Likes: 3
I believe Tremec bought the design from Borg-Warner and tweaked it a bit. It was just a silly correction on one of my posts. Doesn't matter, its just the same 6-speed that every American RWD car uses.
Cobra Member
Joined: June 25, 2004
Posts: 1,076
Likes: 0
From: Ohio
The Brookpark Plant is going to be casting a Boss engine. Its not going to be aluminum.
Thats all the info I have right now. 602 Block(6.2L??). I have no clue where its going to be machined. I don't know if its going in an SE or if its a crate motor - Ford Racing.
Thats all the info I have right now. 602 Block(6.2L??). I have no clue where its going to be machined. I don't know if its going in an SE or if its a crate motor - Ford Racing.
Legacy TMS Member
Joined: June 18, 2004
Posts: 3,990
Likes: 34
From: Conroe, TX
That could be the Boss 302 crate motor. It has a steel block. I can't imagine the "new" Boss motors having steel blocks but you never know...
I Have No Life
Joined: January 30, 2004
Posts: 10,446
Likes: 12
From: Canada
Prototype or early designs
I'm not sure.
I just remember someone mentioning to me saying that the heads weren't AL when they saw prototypes a while back, but that in the end, they would be AL.
They will be AL engines though... no doubt.*
*Disclaimer.. things change all the time, so if anything is incorrect... it was changed*
(I'm gonna start putting that on every post... just to CMA
)
I'm not sure.
I just remember someone mentioning to me saying that the heads weren't AL when they saw prototypes a while back, but that in the end, they would be AL.
They will be AL engines though... no doubt.*
*Disclaimer.. things change all the time, so if anything is incorrect... it was changed*
(I'm gonna start putting that on every post... just to CMA
)
Legacy TMS Member
Joined: June 18, 2004
Posts: 3,990
Likes: 34
From: Conroe, TX
Prototype or early designs
I'm not sure.
I just remember someone mentioning to me saying that the heads weren't AL when they saw prototypes a while back, but that in the end, they would be AL.
They will be AL engines though... no doubt.*
*Disclaimer.. things change all the time, so if anything is incorrect... it was changed*
(I'm gonna start putting that on every post... just to CMA)
I'm not sure.
I just remember someone mentioning to me saying that the heads weren't AL when they saw prototypes a while back, but that in the end, they would be AL.
They will be AL engines though... no doubt.*
*Disclaimer.. things change all the time, so if anything is incorrect... it was changed*
(I'm gonna start putting that on every post... just to CMA
)
* Any information contained in this post is subject to change without notice. The events described in this post may be fictitious. Any similarity to any person living or dead is merely coincidental. This post may cause shortness of breath, headache, diarrhea, or urinary discoloration. Do not read this post if you are pregnant or may become pregnant. Always consult your doctor before replying to this post as it may interact with posts in other threads. Do not operate heavy equipment (such as the GT500) while reading this post. Continued use of this post may result in irritable bowel syndrome. Do not read while drinking alcohol as it may intensify the effect. Objects in mirror are closer than they appear.
I Have No Life
Joined: January 30, 2004
Posts: 10,446
Likes: 12
From: Canada
For those keeping score about the BOSS engines (or HOSS engines as I like to call them)
Quotes from Fourcam330...
http://www.svtperformance.com/forums...=352984&page=8
Summary so far:
- Aluminum Block
- 2 valve per cylinder SOHC
- VVT and VCT
- 5.8 and 6.2 will share a common block with the displacement difference coming from stroke alone
- 4" with ~115mm bore spacing, which means depending on what the bore is exactly, stroke should be around 3.4X-3.5X for the 5.8 and 3.6X-3.7X for the 6.2
- Not sure yet about direct injection
I'm sure more to follow in that thread
Quotes from Fourcam330...
http://www.svtperformance.com/forums...=352984&page=8
Summary so far:
- Aluminum Block
- 2 valve per cylinder SOHC
- VVT and VCT
- 5.8 and 6.2 will share a common block with the displacement difference coming from stroke alone
- 4" with ~115mm bore spacing, which means depending on what the bore is exactly, stroke should be around 3.4X-3.5X for the 5.8 and 3.6X-3.7X for the 6.2
- Not sure yet about direct injection
I'm sure more to follow in that thread
Shelby GT350 Member
Joined: March 11, 2004
Posts: 2,146
Likes: 1
Interesting, the 115mm bore spacing # was thrown out on BON several years ago when news of the Hurricane broke. IIRC a lot of people over there said no way in the world was 115mm the right spacing.
Using the cylinder wall thickness of the present mod motor would give a 105mm bore.
105mm bore x 84mm stroke = 5.82L
105mm bore x 90mm stroke = 6.23L
Compared to the Mod motor those are pretty short strokes. Of course Ford could choose to play it more conservative and use an even 100mm bore diameter, leaving room for future bore increases and aftermarket modding.
100mm bore x 92mm stroke = 5.78L
100mm bore x 98mm stroke = 6.16L
Using the cylinder wall thickness of the present mod motor would give a 105mm bore.
105mm bore x 84mm stroke = 5.82L
105mm bore x 90mm stroke = 6.23L
Compared to the Mod motor those are pretty short strokes. Of course Ford could choose to play it more conservative and use an even 100mm bore diameter, leaving room for future bore increases and aftermarket modding.
100mm bore x 92mm stroke = 5.78L
100mm bore x 98mm stroke = 6.16L
I Have No Life
Joined: January 30, 2004
Posts: 10,446
Likes: 12
From: Canada
More from Fourcam
As of right now, this is an iron block, with plans for an Al version. The Fe block weighs 211 pounds and will definitely be used in the F series. It has 102 mm (4.015") bores on 115 mm spacing. It does NOT have siamese cylinders. It DOES have piston squirters. The main journals are ~ 75 mm diameter and the bulkheads are pretty thick.
As for bore/sroke that's approx. 4.015"x3.49" for the 5.8, and 4.015"x3.73" for the 6.2.
As for bore/sroke that's approx. 4.015"x3.49" for the 5.8, and 4.015"x3.73" for the 6.2.
Thread Starter
Bullitt Member
Joined: May 28, 2004
Posts: 266
Likes: 1
From: Long Beach, Ca
I just saw that, that's a huge letdown, Ford doesn't just need to put a bigger more powerful motor inthe F-series/Mustangs, they need to get the weight down! A 211 pound block in the nose of the Mustangs is not going to be good for anything.
With as much time as Ford is taking to develop the Hurricane (2.5 presidential terms), they need to get it right from the start. Iron engine blocks should be left behind in the last century where they belong except for use in diesels...
With as much time as Ford is taking to develop the Hurricane (2.5 presidential terms), they need to get it right from the start. Iron engine blocks should be left behind in the last century where they belong except for use in diesels...
Legacy TMS Member
Joined: May 16, 2004
Posts: 5,206
Likes: 18
From: Bristol, TN
Aside from weight and easy casting for aluminum, what makes cast iron so last century? Its quieter, its stronger, its more dimensionally stable, it wears better, and so on and so forth. The all alumium 5.0 cammer has a shipping weight 67 pounds heavier than the 602 pound shipping weight of a cast iron 351.