Actual weight 3,603!
1/4/10 | 12:35 AM
#81
Mach 1 Member
Joined: February 8, 2007
Posts: 596
Likes: 0
Shhh!!! Don't talk too loud or the Chevies will hear and they'll pop a fuse trying to come up with new excuses!
1/4/10 | 08:27 AM
#82
Mach 1 Member
Joined: January 31, 2008
Posts: 603
Likes: 0
The power to weight ratio is going to be very similar. The M3 would probably have somewhat of an advantage with its 50/50 weight distribution and I believe the less low end torque will make the M3 easier to launch out of the hole without smoking the tires. However, the gear multiplication will negate the low end torque loss once the car is rolling. I find it funny that BMW's seem to run better times with less..for example. A 2010 Ford Fusion Sport with a 3.5L V6 making 263hp can only turn low 15 sec. timeslips, while a 328i sport with only 230hp runs mid 14's. Both cars weight about the same. Its the whole package...the 328i has been clocked to 60mph in 5.9 sec. while the Fusion at 6.7. The auto 328i is not that much if at all slower than its manual brother.
Dave
Dave
1/4/10 | 10:05 AM
#84
Tasca Super Boss 429 Member
Joined: February 1, 2004
Posts: 3,751
Likes: 0
They like Mustang people fine. As long as those Mustang people never post new Mustang topics, post only occasionally in the one Mustang topic Camaro5 sometimes allows, don't put down the Camaro ever in any way, don't say too much positive about the Mustang, and most of all don't complain about the Mods. Do all that, and you can be a Mustang person on Camaro5.
1/4/10 | 10:27 AM
#86
Mach 1 Member
Joined: January 31, 2008
Posts: 603
Likes: 0
funny thing is a lot of that website had topics that bashed the mustang i think our vs camaro content on mustang source is maybe <1% of total topics
Last edited by MBK; 1/4/10 at 11:20 AM.
1/4/10 | 12:35 PM
#87
Mach 1 Member
Joined: April 11, 2006
Posts: 911
Likes: 0
From: Ohio
On many cars their is a sticker listing a weight for the car, but that is GVWR (Gross Vehicle Weight Rating), not curb weight.
1/4/10 | 12:41 PM
#88
Post *****
Joined: December 14, 2007
Posts: 20,005
Likes: 4
From: State of Jefferson Mountains USA
They like Mustang people fine. As long as those Mustang people never post new Mustang topics, post only occasionally in the one Mustang topic Camaro5 sometimes allows, don't put down the Camaro ever in any way, don't say too much positive about the Mustang, and most of all don't complain about the Mods. Do all that, and you can be a Mustang person on Camaro5.
Geez... that sounds strikingly similar to...
IRAN!
and imboc
1/4/10 | 01:55 PM
#90
Cobra R Member
Joined: June 6, 2008
Posts: 1,666
Likes: 2
I just got a month ban on camaro5 for this post
i posted that in the thread where they are showing the new rollerskates instead of wheels weights on the camaro's, that is GM's "fix" lol yet it has "far superior" technology, such as voice GPS and onstar? and a pushrod engine? wheel weights, and a plasticized to hell interior?
DOH!
Nice technology lol
DOH!
Last edited by fdjizm; 1/4/10 at 01:56 PM.
1/4/10 | 02:00 PM
#91
MOTM Committee Member
Joined: April 17, 2006
Posts: 9,181
Likes: 2
From: SoCal
I just got a month ban on camaro5 for this post
i posted that in the thread where they are showing the new rollerskates instead of wheels weights on the camaro's, that is GM's "fix" lol yet it has "far superior" technology, such as voice GPS and onstar? and a pushrod engine? wheel weights, and a plasticized to hell interior?
DOH!
i posted that in the thread where they are showing the new rollerskates instead of wheels weights on the camaro's, that is GM's "fix" lol yet it has "far superior" technology, such as voice GPS and onstar? and a pushrod engine? wheel weights, and a plasticized to hell interior?
DOH!
I'm surprised you haven't gotten a life ban over there yet lol
1/4/10 | 02:03 PM
#92
Banned
Joined: August 16, 2006
Posts: 1,633
Likes: 0
Nothing wrong with pushrods guys. I am sure none of you would take a ZR1 or Z06 right? After all they are low tech pushrod pieces of ****! Please remember that a 2005 Ford GT cost $160,000 and gets its *** handed to it by a 2010 ZR1 that costs $116,000 in *every aspect of performance*. The Ford GT was "higher tech" and more expensive, so it should be better, right?
You sound like riceboys when you judge an engine based on the tech used instead of the performance figures.
You sound like riceboys when you judge an engine based on the tech used instead of the performance figures.
Last edited by eci; 1/4/10 at 02:04 PM.
1/4/10 | 02:05 PM
#93
Cobra R Member
Joined: June 6, 2008
Posts: 1,666
Likes: 2
Nothing wrong with pushrods guys. I am sure none of you would take a ZR1 or Z06 right? After all they are low tech pushrod pieces of ****! Please remember that a 2005 Ford GT cost $160,000 and gets its *** handed to it by a 2010 ZR1 that cost $116,000 in *every aspect of performance*. The Ford GT was "higher tech" and more expensive, so it should be better, right?
but I don't agree with talking up the camaro like it was the next ferraro/lambo eater when after it came out it had 2 recalls, quality control holds (that someone made quality worse), trannies breaking left and right from using lolaunch control, and crap handling that a log axle track pack mustang with 100+ less HP can beat with "inferior" technology (there are your numbers)...
so what "technology" where they talking about
Right?
Last edited by fdjizm; 1/4/10 at 02:07 PM.
1/4/10 | 02:19 PM
#94
Team Mustang Source
Joined: June 19, 2004
Posts: 6,840
Likes: 2
From: Phoenixville, PA
I just got a month ban on camaro5 for this post
i posted that in the thread where they are showing the new rollerskates instead of wheels weights on the camaro's, that is GM's "fix" lol yet it has "far superior" technology, such as voice GPS and onstar? and a pushrod engine? wheel weights, and a plasticized to hell interior?
DOH!
i posted that in the thread where they are showing the new rollerskates instead of wheels weights on the camaro's, that is GM's "fix" lol yet it has "far superior" technology, such as voice GPS and onstar? and a pushrod engine? wheel weights, and a plasticized to hell interior?
DOH!
1/4/10 | 02:22 PM
#95
Mach 1 Member
Joined: February 8, 2007
Posts: 596
Likes: 0
But that's okay. We can complain about anything we want without costing the tax payers anything. They can't.
1/4/10 | 02:23 PM
#96
Cobra R Member
Joined: June 6, 2008
Posts: 1,666
Likes: 2
lol
1/4/10 | 02:24 PM
#97
Banned
Joined: August 16, 2006
Posts: 1,633
Likes: 0
Why can't people just be car fans instead of this tired old Ford v Chevy BS? Do we need "gang mentality" in this hobby?
GM makes some great cars. Can anyone point me to the new Ford I can buy that competes with the Corvette ZR1? Can anyone point me to the new Lincoln I can buy that competes with the Cadillac CTS-V?
GM makes some great cars. Can anyone point me to the new Ford I can buy that competes with the Corvette ZR1? Can anyone point me to the new Lincoln I can buy that competes with the Cadillac CTS-V?
Last edited by eci; 1/4/10 at 02:25 PM.
1/4/10 | 02:38 PM
#98
Thread Starter
Bullitt Member
Joined: September 25, 2009
Posts: 212
Likes: 0
From: Delaware
they deleted fdjizm's post that got him banned but it was in this thread
http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=58624
They are really up tight against mustang guys even if we dont say anything bad about their car. I am a member on their forum and just because i have my gt listed as my car I automatically get labled as a fanboi and my info is somehow not as important. But you do have to realize that it is a camaro forum and they are 99% fanbois and always think their car is the best. But to each his own
http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=58624
They are really up tight against mustang guys even if we dont say anything bad about their car. I am a member on their forum and just because i have my gt listed as my car I automatically get labled as a fanboi and my info is somehow not as important. But you do have to realize that it is a camaro forum and they are 99% fanbois and always think their car is the best. But to each his own
Last edited by yeahyouknwit; 1/4/10 at 02:41 PM.
1/4/10 | 02:46 PM
#99
Post *****
Joined: December 14, 2007
Posts: 20,005
Likes: 4
From: State of Jefferson Mountains USA
Nothing wrong with pushrods guys. I am sure none of you would take a ZR1 or Z06 right? After all they are low tech pushrod pieces of ****! Please remember that a 2005 Ford GT cost $160,000 and gets its *** handed to it by a 2010 ZR1 that costs $116,000 in *every aspect of performance*. The Ford GT was "higher tech" and more expensive, so it should be better, right?
You sound like riceboys when you judge an engine based on the tech used instead of the performance figures.
You sound like riceboys when you judge an engine based on the tech used instead of the performance figures.
Apples to Oranges...
The problem with this entire comparison is that you’re comparing very different cars/engines/sizes/fuel injections/etc.
If you want a much simpler comparison there is a much better choice. Compare a Corvette Z06 LS6 to a Corvette ZR-1 LT5. Here you have two engines of the exact came Cubic Inch displacement, and the exact same factory rated horsepower. Both are GM engines for Corvette. The LT5 however was designed by Lotus and built by Mercury Marine for Chevrolet.
LS6
5.7L V-8 16 Valve w/Sequential Electronic Fuel Injection
Crated Shipping Weight: 497 lbs
Rated HP @ Flywheel: 405 HP @ 6000
Rated Torque @ Flywheel: 400 @ 4800
Common RWHP: 355 @ 6000
Common Torque: 350 @ 4800
Compression 11:1
Bore/Stroke 99mmx92mm
LT5
5.7L V-8 32 Valve DOHC w/Multiport Electronic Fuel Injection
Crated Shipping Weight: 741 lbs
Rated HP @ Flywheel: 405 HP @ 6500
Rated Torque @ Flywheel: 385 @ 5000
Common RWHP: 371 @ 6500
Common Torque: 352 @ 5000
Compression 11:1
Bore/Stroke 99mmx93mm
Now here we have two very similar engines with very different technology. These two cars have very special places in my heart - as I am lucky enough to own one of each. I will give you my person opinions about each.
Although the Z06 is by far a better designed, better handling, nicer car - I feel the ZR-1's engine is by far more powerful. The main difference between the two cars is the Powerband. I wish I had two DYNO graphs to show you side by side.
The Z06 is much lighter, has better traction, and tighter suspension - which leads to faster launches off the line. Racing my two cars against each other in stock configurations - the Z06 is clearly the leader in like 0-30 MPH. After that, it’s all over. Soon as the ZR-1 gets to RPM it rips the poor Z06 apart.
A ZR-1's torque curve starts lower and then just pulls harder throughout its RPM range. The Z06 start higher, but is much more gradual and peters out near the end of its RPM range.
SotP acceleration in a Zo6 just slams you against the seat on takeoff, and then slowly trails off the faster you go. SotP acceleration in the ZR-1 is more gradual on takeoff, and you squish back harder in the seat the higher the RPM's get.
My Z06 stock tops out at about 168 MPH. I think that's pretty avg. My ZR-1 topped out at about 192 MPH when it was stock. Again pretty avg. This is the difference an OHC/Valve train motor has to a standard V8.
Anyone that says higher RPM engines are useless is an idiot, plain and simple. In the ZR-1 to Z06 comparison the top end difference is mainly because of the RPM/Torque difference at redline. If two engines produce the same torque but one has twice the redline RPM, then the high redline engine would have double the horsepower.
The second thing to compare about each engine is the true capabilities of the technology. To me that means what can you modify it to do.
The general consensus about the LT5 bottom end is that it generally can handle up to about 1000HP before you need to start changing internals. I think most of the modders here would say a LS6 can only handle about 550HP-700HP stock.
Many many many ZR-1 modders have their engines running safely to the 9000 RPM range. My ZR-1 with about $20k in mods produces RWHP 1048HP @ 8900 RPM on 92 octane fuel. Its top speed is 223 MPH. It has 114,000 Hard Miles on it and I have never blown an engine.
A close friend of mine has a ZR-1 that produces 1258 HP @ 9600 RPM. His is highly modified, but has held together pretty well for a 10 year old car.
Personally I know of nobody that has come near these numbers with an LS6. I also think if you put a slightly modified LT5 in a Z06 frame you would have a scary car.
Technology for OHC and multi-valve per cylinder engines, I believe dramatically opens up the top end horsepower. I have seen a 32-valve head package for the LS6 that has some impressive hp/torque numbers, while allowing a built LS6 to run much higher RPM.
The tradeoff of course is weight and cost. A crated LT5 is about 4 times the cost of an LS6. Repair costs are naturally a lot higher with an LT5. Even though it’s an aluminum head/block engine - its still almost 70% heavier. I think most OHC engines statistically require less maintenance. Surely you can't say these little Honda OHC engines break down too much. The fuel economy is about the same, although I expect that’s my driving style. I bet a passive driver would get better fuel economy out of a Z06.
These are just my opinions as an owner. I'm not a mechanic or engine engineer. I think overall it depends on what you wish the car to do, and how much upgradeability you want it to have.
I also think US carmakers don’t like producing cars with high top speeds. It was rumored for years that the real reason for the canceling of the ZR-1 was not high maintenance costs, but rather government and legal liability pressures to not make a high top speed car in the US.
Hope this info helps someone.
http://www.z06vette.com/forums/f7/pu...-really-56736/
1/4/10 | 02:48 PM
#100
MOTM Committee Member
Joined: April 17, 2006
Posts: 9,181
Likes: 2
From: SoCal
I agree that cars should be judged on how they perform as opposed to what they have listed on paper. But I have to disagree on your comparison of the Ford GT and the ZR1. I would hope the ZR1 can outperform it coming out 5yrs later and having the advantage of benchmarking. Also the price difference is due to the exclusivity of the Ford GT vs the ZR1. Plus the GT was on its own unique platform and doesn't share a ton of components with a mainstream production car like the ZR1.
If I won the lotto I would take a Ford GT over a ZR1 anyday.
Yes they do make some fast cars (don't know about great), but not enough to merit my tax dollars thats for sure!