X-charger is VERY VERY close....with video..
5/1/06, 05:08 PM
#121
actually im pretty much done. i just left street scene (ill post pics we used my car for the fit test of the elenor light kit) and i let him drive my car remember he has 2 05 v8s both with vortechs. he was very impressed with the car. i also took tony his tech guy for a ride and he could hardly belive it was a six. so im where i want. a fast car that should give me years of dependable service and a big hiney smile! you guys can reach for the stars im happy with the moon!.
here is the lint to the center light kit post
http://forums.bradbarnett.net/index.php?showtopic=47826
here is the lint to the center light kit post
http://forums.bradbarnett.net/index.php?showtopic=47826
5/1/06, 05:13 PM
#122
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(afixer @ May 1, 2006, 7:11 PM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
actually im pretty much done. i just left street scene (ill post pics we used my car for the fit test of the elenor light kit) and i let him drive my car remember he has 2 05 v8s both with vortechs. he was very impressed with the car. i also took tony his tech guy for a ride and he could hardly belive it was a six. so im where i want. a fast car that should give me years of dependable service and a big hiney smile! you guys can reach for the stars im happy with the moon!.
[/b][/quote]
I'm setting the controls for the heart of the Sun...
actually im pretty much done. i just left street scene (ill post pics we used my car for the fit test of the elenor light kit) and i let him drive my car remember he has 2 05 v8s both with vortechs. he was very impressed with the car. i also took tony his tech guy for a ride and he could hardly belive it was a six. so im where i want. a fast car that should give me years of dependable service and a big hiney smile! you guys can reach for the stars im happy with the moon!.
[/b][/quote]
I'm setting the controls for the heart of the Sun...
5/1/06, 07:11 PM
#123
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(scrming @ May 1, 2006, 6:16 PM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
I'm setting the controls for the heart of the Sun...
[/b][/quote]
I dont' know about anyone else, but I'm on the edge of my seat waiting to see what you're going to do next. Your going in the direction I'm wanting to go.
Rob
I'm setting the controls for the heart of the Sun...
[/b][/quote]
I dont' know about anyone else, but I'm on the edge of my seat waiting to see what you're going to do next. Your going in the direction I'm wanting to go.
Rob
5/1/06, 10:42 PM
#124
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(afixer @ May 1, 2006, 5:11 PM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
actually im pretty much done. i just left street scene (ill post pics we used my car for the fit test of the elenor light kit) and i let him drive my car remember he has 2 05 v8s both with vortechs. he was very impressed with the car. i also took tony his tech guy for a ride and he could hardly belive it was a six. so im where i want. a fast car that should give me years of dependable service and a big hiney smile! you guys can reach for the stars im happy with the moon!.
here is the lint to the center light kit post
http://forums.bradbarnett.net/index.php?showtopic=47826
[/b][/quote]
Y'know, I needed to read a post like this. Here I am salivating about every frickin mod I see, and I've been telling myself something similar to what you just wrote. It didn't really sink in until I read this.
I love my darn car. It's fun, it'll keep me smiling, and it'll run beautifully.
...This newfound peace won't last.
actually im pretty much done. i just left street scene (ill post pics we used my car for the fit test of the elenor light kit) and i let him drive my car remember he has 2 05 v8s both with vortechs. he was very impressed with the car. i also took tony his tech guy for a ride and he could hardly belive it was a six. so im where i want. a fast car that should give me years of dependable service and a big hiney smile! you guys can reach for the stars im happy with the moon!.
here is the lint to the center light kit post
http://forums.bradbarnett.net/index.php?showtopic=47826
[/b][/quote]
Y'know, I needed to read a post like this. Here I am salivating about every frickin mod I see, and I've been telling myself something similar to what you just wrote. It didn't really sink in until I read this.
I love my darn car. It's fun, it'll keep me smiling, and it'll run beautifully.
...This newfound peace won't last.
5/1/06, 10:44 PM
#125
i got this email from doug he has been triing to past but the site was down so i thought i would.
Hey guys,
Sorry for the delays, I got in about 10pm last night after 8 hours on a plane and had to get up and be at the dyno, 1.5 hours away, at noon for a Sean Highland Paxton S/C 02 GT.
The numbers with the kit with a GT MAF housing and 3.0 inch pulley making 5-7 lbs of boost were 250rwhp and 262 rwtq from the dynojet sheets. When I load it into my Winpep7 runviewer it shows a tad bit less at 247 rwhp but still 262 rwtq, it's just funny like that from the dynosoftware to the Runviewer Software, I have no idea why?
From there I also added some of my own adjustments in which the throttle is alot more responsive and the transmission shifting is improved. I can't take the credit for the valet tune as it was all Tom's idea, hahaaa.
The neat part was we also got to try a new air intake on the kit. This proved to add about 5 rwhp and the same in torque. Also the intake temps while cruising were about 10 degree's cooler, this was after the s/c so it was true intake temps. I would like to dispel the rumors about the MP90 cooking the air while cruising and at higher boost. Normal NON-intercooled air temps on a S/C system run around 130-160 degree's. Once you hit 160 then you are just blowing hot air and not making any power. With the GT air box the kit cruised at 130-140 and under boost went to 152 at max under boost at 6200 rpm's. With the X-Spec air intake the temps were 120-135 at normal cruise and 145-150 under boost, around 5-7psi. Even with the addition of the 2.80 pulley on the dyno we didn't see any higher then 155 at full boost with the GT MAF setup.
On a Paxton Novi 2000 today while cruising his air temps were 160-170 degree's, mainly because he didn't have any type of air cooler or even bypass valve. This was OFF boost.
Power! or Torque rather. The most impressive part of this kit was the Torque curve, or should I say shelf. It was pretty flat across the board as expected from any roots or twin screw system. The boost came in when you hit about half throttle and started off at 5.5 psi and as the Rpm's increased at about 4800 rpm's the boost climbed upto 7 psi with the 3.0 pulley. With the 2.8 pulley was good for about another 1.5 psi of boost everywhere, it started at 6.5 and climbed as high as 9.5 psi. Still the air temps were great at 140-150 and the power was climbing, we made 259 rwhp with the 2.8 pulley but we started the dynopull later in the RPM range so it showed a bit less torque at 255 rwtq but I would imagine a pull started at 2200 rpm's would show higher results on the Tq numbers.
Comparisons. After calling both Vortech and Procharger today and doing some math I found some interesting results.
First, Vortech, I spoke with Chris there as he was very helpful and he said with the new tuning they estimate 290 FLYWHEEL hp and he didn't say what Torque, this is with the NON-aftercooled system. If it is like most other centrifugal systems that I've tuned I would say the Torque would be lower then the HP, it's just a given with the type of Supercharger it is. For example, most S/C 99-04 GT's with the right parts and my tuning make 390 rwhp and 370 rwtq. The Paxton S/C car today with cams and a forged bottom end made 441rwhp and 397 rwtq. To compare it with a 05' GT, I've tuned two manuals, one at 444rwhp and 377 rwtq and the other at 467 rwhp and 390 rwtq. Onc automatic 06' at 444rwhp and 370 rwtq. Chris said that all numbers quoted from Vortech are flywheel rated numbers. I would also imagine that the Vortech numbers are made with a manual car, but this is just an estimate, maybe MSP can elaborate more?
Next ProCharger, I didn't get her name but there again very nice and helpful and they state with their base system a gain of 50-55% and with the upgraded system 60-65%. They wouldn't give any numbers as they say every car is different. They did say that their base kit doesn't come with upgraded injectors but the Hi-po kit does.
So from what I take of that let's do some math using rear wheel numbers. Base automatic V6's make around 170 rwhp give or take 5 rwhp. 250rwhp-170 rwhp= 80rwhp, or 47% +/- 5%. So with the 4.0 the X-Charger is right where the others are at, no less, even with the automatic. I would like to estimate that the Manual car will do better but at the same time it should start off better too so the percentage gains will most likely be the same.
The Flywheel numbers for this kit with a automatic and a conservative 20%, most say 24-25% for the auto's, are 300hp and 315 Tq, right there with the flywheel numbers from a GT.
The biggest thing to get with all of this is the actual datalogging math. After the dyno session Dave and I really hit it hard trying to figure out why or better yet how to get this kit upto 300rwhp. After reviewing the datalogging sheets were found that the engine was running at 1.35-1.4 load. To explain this better an engine is rated at how much air it will flow at max at 1.0, anything above that is higher then 1.0 because it is forced into the engine. So with this kit the engine is flowing 1.35 to 1.40 load or 35-40% more air. Back to the math adding 35-40% to the engine's HP output and you are right at where we are, 240-250 rwhp. So mathematically the kit is 100%. Also, for this kit to be running that low of a load it is alot easier on the engine and will allow for years and miles of trouble free power for your engine.
It would require double the amount of airflow through the engine to come out with more then 300rwhp, at the right conditions as well. You can't put a 2.0 pulley on this MP90 and expect it because the air temps would be too hot. You could add a shot of nitrous and then you would cool the air and compact it more thus flowing more air. Then you would require additional tuning as well because you would need to run less spark but that's a whole different issue. The more power the more tuning the less life expectancy as well. Now if you are running nothing but nitrous this doesn't apply fully as nitrous has a different tuning curve but there again I don't want to get into it here.
So, in conclusion, I think the X-Charger is going to be a great kit with excellent power potential and longevity. This kit can be installed in less then a day and you can head to the drag strip that night or just drive it around to feel the added power. This kit comes with 39lbs injectors so you are fully covered in the fuel delivery and if you do decide to modify your engine more the smaller pulley can be added along with a different air intake to further your performance even more. It is equal to every kit on the market today with power and maybe even exceeds some with Torque but that can vary between vehicles. I can say from driving it the power delivery far exceeds my expectations as it comes in from any RPM you hit it, no waiting for the rev's to come on before it finally hits boost.
I would like to thank Tom and apologize to his son for the delay for getting the car to him, dang pulley pullers [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/banghead.gif[/img] . Tom is a great guy and his car is definitely yellow, as for the bee from the rear view, well that's a bit much for me, hahahaa. It does fly, I mean the car and the bee!
Thanks, Doug904.
P.S. Ferris Beuller Valet doesn't have nothing on Dave! [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/eek.gif[/img]
http://bamachips.com/xspecsheet30pulley.jpg
http://bamachips.com/xsSpecdynosheet28pulley.jpg
Hey guys,
Sorry for the delays, I got in about 10pm last night after 8 hours on a plane and had to get up and be at the dyno, 1.5 hours away, at noon for a Sean Highland Paxton S/C 02 GT.
The numbers with the kit with a GT MAF housing and 3.0 inch pulley making 5-7 lbs of boost were 250rwhp and 262 rwtq from the dynojet sheets. When I load it into my Winpep7 runviewer it shows a tad bit less at 247 rwhp but still 262 rwtq, it's just funny like that from the dynosoftware to the Runviewer Software, I have no idea why?
From there I also added some of my own adjustments in which the throttle is alot more responsive and the transmission shifting is improved. I can't take the credit for the valet tune as it was all Tom's idea, hahaaa.
The neat part was we also got to try a new air intake on the kit. This proved to add about 5 rwhp and the same in torque. Also the intake temps while cruising were about 10 degree's cooler, this was after the s/c so it was true intake temps. I would like to dispel the rumors about the MP90 cooking the air while cruising and at higher boost. Normal NON-intercooled air temps on a S/C system run around 130-160 degree's. Once you hit 160 then you are just blowing hot air and not making any power. With the GT air box the kit cruised at 130-140 and under boost went to 152 at max under boost at 6200 rpm's. With the X-Spec air intake the temps were 120-135 at normal cruise and 145-150 under boost, around 5-7psi. Even with the addition of the 2.80 pulley on the dyno we didn't see any higher then 155 at full boost with the GT MAF setup.
On a Paxton Novi 2000 today while cruising his air temps were 160-170 degree's, mainly because he didn't have any type of air cooler or even bypass valve. This was OFF boost.
Power! or Torque rather. The most impressive part of this kit was the Torque curve, or should I say shelf. It was pretty flat across the board as expected from any roots or twin screw system. The boost came in when you hit about half throttle and started off at 5.5 psi and as the Rpm's increased at about 4800 rpm's the boost climbed upto 7 psi with the 3.0 pulley. With the 2.8 pulley was good for about another 1.5 psi of boost everywhere, it started at 6.5 and climbed as high as 9.5 psi. Still the air temps were great at 140-150 and the power was climbing, we made 259 rwhp with the 2.8 pulley but we started the dynopull later in the RPM range so it showed a bit less torque at 255 rwtq but I would imagine a pull started at 2200 rpm's would show higher results on the Tq numbers.
Comparisons. After calling both Vortech and Procharger today and doing some math I found some interesting results.
First, Vortech, I spoke with Chris there as he was very helpful and he said with the new tuning they estimate 290 FLYWHEEL hp and he didn't say what Torque, this is with the NON-aftercooled system. If it is like most other centrifugal systems that I've tuned I would say the Torque would be lower then the HP, it's just a given with the type of Supercharger it is. For example, most S/C 99-04 GT's with the right parts and my tuning make 390 rwhp and 370 rwtq. The Paxton S/C car today with cams and a forged bottom end made 441rwhp and 397 rwtq. To compare it with a 05' GT, I've tuned two manuals, one at 444rwhp and 377 rwtq and the other at 467 rwhp and 390 rwtq. Onc automatic 06' at 444rwhp and 370 rwtq. Chris said that all numbers quoted from Vortech are flywheel rated numbers. I would also imagine that the Vortech numbers are made with a manual car, but this is just an estimate, maybe MSP can elaborate more?
Next ProCharger, I didn't get her name but there again very nice and helpful and they state with their base system a gain of 50-55% and with the upgraded system 60-65%. They wouldn't give any numbers as they say every car is different. They did say that their base kit doesn't come with upgraded injectors but the Hi-po kit does.
So from what I take of that let's do some math using rear wheel numbers. Base automatic V6's make around 170 rwhp give or take 5 rwhp. 250rwhp-170 rwhp= 80rwhp, or 47% +/- 5%. So with the 4.0 the X-Charger is right where the others are at, no less, even with the automatic. I would like to estimate that the Manual car will do better but at the same time it should start off better too so the percentage gains will most likely be the same.
The Flywheel numbers for this kit with a automatic and a conservative 20%, most say 24-25% for the auto's, are 300hp and 315 Tq, right there with the flywheel numbers from a GT.
The biggest thing to get with all of this is the actual datalogging math. After the dyno session Dave and I really hit it hard trying to figure out why or better yet how to get this kit upto 300rwhp. After reviewing the datalogging sheets were found that the engine was running at 1.35-1.4 load. To explain this better an engine is rated at how much air it will flow at max at 1.0, anything above that is higher then 1.0 because it is forced into the engine. So with this kit the engine is flowing 1.35 to 1.40 load or 35-40% more air. Back to the math adding 35-40% to the engine's HP output and you are right at where we are, 240-250 rwhp. So mathematically the kit is 100%. Also, for this kit to be running that low of a load it is alot easier on the engine and will allow for years and miles of trouble free power for your engine.
It would require double the amount of airflow through the engine to come out with more then 300rwhp, at the right conditions as well. You can't put a 2.0 pulley on this MP90 and expect it because the air temps would be too hot. You could add a shot of nitrous and then you would cool the air and compact it more thus flowing more air. Then you would require additional tuning as well because you would need to run less spark but that's a whole different issue. The more power the more tuning the less life expectancy as well. Now if you are running nothing but nitrous this doesn't apply fully as nitrous has a different tuning curve but there again I don't want to get into it here.
So, in conclusion, I think the X-Charger is going to be a great kit with excellent power potential and longevity. This kit can be installed in less then a day and you can head to the drag strip that night or just drive it around to feel the added power. This kit comes with 39lbs injectors so you are fully covered in the fuel delivery and if you do decide to modify your engine more the smaller pulley can be added along with a different air intake to further your performance even more. It is equal to every kit on the market today with power and maybe even exceeds some with Torque but that can vary between vehicles. I can say from driving it the power delivery far exceeds my expectations as it comes in from any RPM you hit it, no waiting for the rev's to come on before it finally hits boost.
I would like to thank Tom and apologize to his son for the delay for getting the car to him, dang pulley pullers [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/banghead.gif[/img] . Tom is a great guy and his car is definitely yellow, as for the bee from the rear view, well that's a bit much for me, hahahaa. It does fly, I mean the car and the bee!
Thanks, Doug904.
P.S. Ferris Beuller Valet doesn't have nothing on Dave! [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/eek.gif[/img]
http://bamachips.com/xspecsheet30pulley.jpg
http://bamachips.com/xsSpecdynosheet28pulley.jpg
5/2/06, 04:19 AM
#126
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Thats an excellent review Doug904! You did a nice job!.. [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/thumb.gif[/img]
As long as Afixer is happy, then thats all that matters! [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/thumb.gif[/img]
As long as Afixer is happy, then thats all that matters! [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/thumb.gif[/img]
10/4/06, 07:57 PM
#128
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http://explorerexpresscom.nationprotect.net/index.shtml
ask for Dave or Patty, he has all the details and can answer all questions.
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