TacoBill

On a different subject..

Tom281 (the other Tom here in TMS) now has what we, the Shaker Club Members, want!!! How sweet is this?

mikes rx

Wow, that video quality stunk compared to TacoBills

mikes rx

What happened to everyone???? 15 minutes with no posts

89Trooper

Sorry, I thought you knew this was The Mustang Source, not The Mustang and Maybe Cadillac Source.

I did eat kinda fast!

Nothing left to debate on that. Unless you guys find a convertible with a Pypes O/R H-Pipe to see if it sounds any different.

Looks good, but I wouldn't want it. There isn't any place to go around here with the power I have now. Would be awesome at car shows, though!

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Still looking for 1 good reason to get an aftermarket shifter for a daily driver.


Every other example we used left room for improvement:

Pre-05 Mustang springs = Looks like a 4x4. 05+ Mustang springs = Looks better, but plenty of room for improvement.

Pre-05 Mustang tune = good, but could be better. 05+ Mustang tune = better, but could be even better.

Pre-05 Mustang shifter = wet noodle piece of crap. 05+ Mustang shifter = extremely better in all aspects.

Here is a sentence that is a fact:

The '05+ shifter feels and shifts like an aftermarket shifter when compared to a pre-'05 shifter. (It's a shorter throw, it's firmer, it shifts easier - I've driven plenty of both).

However, you can not say either of the following:

The '05+ springs look like aftermarket springs when compared to pre-'05 springs. (Looks better, but still too high - a lot of room for improvement).

The '05+ tune performs like an aftermarket tune when compared to a pre-'05 tune. (Yeah, it's faster, but there is more HP, too. If nothing else, there is the drive-by-ware lag to get rid of & faster shifts for an auto).

TacoBill

Sorry, I thought you knew this was The Mustang Source, not The Mustang and Maybe Cadillac Source.
Wise guy, huh?
Don't try and justify your scaling method, it's too late. Like I mentioned, you didn't say that your scale applied only to Mustangs.


I did eat kinda fast!
That's not all you do fast from what I heard..


Looks good (Vortech), but I wouldn't want it. There isn't any place to go around here with the power I have now. Would be awesome at car shows, though!
Wouldn't want it? Even if it were free? Now I know you're nucking futz.

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Still looking for 1 good reason to get an aftermarket shifter for a daily driver.

Here's some good reasons from George himself...


stock - best feel for smoothness and hiding the "notchy" feel. bad feel for rubbery shifts, long throw and sloppiness in the shifter.

Medium throw reduction (15-30 % reduction)- best for moderate reduction in throw and only increases notchy feel a minimal amount. good for the daily driver but not really the best for drag racing or power shifting.
(Can be adjusted to 35-50 % reduction, but isn't practical for a daily)


We find it odd that people always complain about how shifters make the tranny notchy. they do not. the tranny is already a VERY notchy setup. you just cannot feel it in the stock shifter for several reasons. one is the rubber parts of the shifter allow it to rise up and down and torque ALOT with the tranny thus taking away some of the notchy feel. the other is the fact that the stock shifter has the fulcrum or pivot point very close to the connection point of the shifter/traany linkage. this makes the shift throw up top much longer but also makes the mechanical leverage very good which also dissipates or spreads the notchy clunk over a longer travel so you do not "FEEL" it as much because it IS still there.

89Trooper

I did eat kinda fast!
That's not all you do fast from what I heard..
There are so many things I could say to that, but I'll be nice.


Looks good (Vortech), but I wouldn't want it. There isn't any place to go around here with the power I have now. Would be awesome at car shows, though!
Wouldn't want it? Even if it were free? Now I know you're nucking futz.
I never said anything about not taking THAT for free. Popping the hood at a car show would be enough of a reason to justify that.

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Still looking for 1 good reason to get an aftermarket shifter for a daily driver.
stock - best feel for smoothness and hiding the "notchy" feel. bad feel for rubbery shifts, long throw and sloppiness in the shifter.
I feel the "best" - smoothness and lack of notchy feel. But I feel none of the "bad" - hence my reasoning. Here's the marketing I refer to below. Good adjectives - rubbery, long, sloppy.

We find it odd that people always complain about how shifters make the tranny notchy. they do not. the tranny is already a VERY notchy setup. you just cannot feel it in the stock shifter for several reasons. one is the rubber parts of the shifter allow it to rise up and down and torque ALOT with the tranny thus taking away some of the notchy feel. the other is the fact that the stock shifter has the fulcrum or pivot point very close to the connection point of the shifter/traany linkage. this makes the shift throw up top much longer but also makes the mechanical leverage very good which also dissipates or spreads the notchy clunk over a longer travel so you do not "FEEL" it as much because it IS still there.
That's what I'm talking about with comfort level. Confirmed from the man, himself. The rubber parts in the stock shifter make you not feel the notchy-ness. Harder durometer parts used in aftermarket shifters make you feel the notchy-ness more. Just like the Ultra-Lites don't make the ride quality awful, I'm not saying the shifting comfort with an aftermarket shifter will be awful. But just like ride quality degraded somewhat, so will shifting comfort degrade somewhat.

Also, he is marketing his part. Of course he will make it sound like you NEED it. But anybody that thinks our shifters have a "much longer" throw, or a "longer travel" hasn't driven a pre-2005 Mustang. And anybody that thinks our transmissions are notchy hasn't shifted a T-5 or a Tremec (except if there is a problem with the tranny).

So, confirmed from George, we have one negative. It will feel more notchy.

Now, if you can out-weigh that 1 negative with at least 2 positives (that's what "out-weigh" means), then I'd like to hear them. According to George, the stock shifter is already smooth. I'll even concede and say that the throw shortens up even though I don't think it's necessary to have it any shorter for daily driving.

There's 1 positive to 1 negative, but the benefit (shorter throw) doesn't out-weigh the negative (notchy).

That's ALL I'm saying in a nutshell - "not worth the over $300 unless you are drag racing". Then you would want the hard stops to slam the gears without hurting the transmission - but does this shifter even have the hard stops?

fxdwg2002

How the Heck did I get roped into this?

opinion or not, like I said that's my story and I'm sticking to it.

I'm not the only one that has complained about the stock shifter.

89Trooper

If I had any qualms with the stock shifter I would be ordering one if Bill gives the .

Meaning, if it was as crappy as the stock one in my '89.

But even the fix for that was only $180, not $300+

fxdwg2002

I've got my qualms with the the stock shifter, and eventually I plan on changing it out for something like the MGW or the Pro 5.0, but at this point I haven't been able to justify the money. I've got a real bad Harley habit I have to support also, and only so big of a toy budget.

89Trooper

I didn't mean that as in "if I were you". I just meant that if I, being me, actually did have any scruples with the stock shifter, I would get an MGW one if Bill likes it. But without any qualms or scruples, I see no need.

fxdwg2002

I didn't take it as a . I was just saying what I thought about the whole thing.

TacoBill

Excellent point, Tom. A trade off exists between comfort and performance.
Just like the Ultralite example you gave, the shifter is no different.

The majority of buyers of this shifter chose it because of MGW's shifter design and engineering reputation and the complete adjustablity of it versus the other manufacturers. To them, the $300 is well worth it.

And yes, George does supply the hard stops, but does not recommend them unless you're hardcore. He says that the internal stops in our transmissions are more than sufficient. In addition, he said that most people don't know how to correctly set-up the stops, thus can potentially damage the transmission.



Sorry Steve for using your name in vain, but when Tom mentioned missing 3rd, your name popped up.



I'm reeling Tom in!!! Slowly, but surely.. don't wan't to yank the hook out from his mouth or snap the line!

fxdwg2002

Tell me this pic is not your's. You'll be reelling me in also if it is. I think I would have to try out the feel of that shifter before I bought it, but the design features and others comments is dragging me closer and closer to buying it now instead of waiting.

TacoBill

No, it's a pic of Mike's (Got Oatz) shifter he just got today.

Mine is due in on Thursday.

More pics of it can be seen here.

I'll have you reeled in with Tom after I do my install write-up on Saturday. I'm planning on shooting some videos of different shifting scenarios too.

fxdwg2002

Really? I didnt' know that you even purchased the MGW. I look forward to the write up. I'll have to check out the feel of the shifter the next time we see eachother!

mikes rx

Could someone explain to me how it is that there are new posts from the 8:00 to 11:00 EST range, yet when I tried getting onto the site during that time (I tried many times), it wouldn't connect....which seems to happen a lot

89Trooper

Internal stops? Is that a new thing? I don't think the T-5 had internal stops, or if it did, they were mushy. I can see what he is saying about setting them up wrong. Adjusting them too far out won't let the transmission engage into gear properly.

mikes rx

I believe that the t-5 did NOT have internal stops, but T-3650 in the 01-up GT's did.

TacoBill

The following are all quotes from George.

Features:

- ability to adjust throw of shifter

- ability to adjust height of shift ****.

- ability to adjust rotational position of ****.

- complete dynamat pad and extreme heat shields

- custom upper and lower boots stainelss clamps.

- COMPLETEY machined all billet construction. EVERY piece hard coated that is alumiunum.

- versatility of handle swap out to use a wide variety of ***** and thread sizes.

- 100 percent complete replacment shifter. no reusing stock pieces to mount the shifter.

- combination of both free motion linkage to eliminate binding when moving left to right AND heavy return springs to pop into the center gate for both 2-3 upshifts and fast 5-4 downshifts.

- unique centerline support rod design virutally eliminates 3rd wot lock out dilema.

- front support arm WILL have 2 stainless steel flanges on BOTH ends of the rubber mount.

- rear support bracket has rubber isolator pad to eliminate squeaking.
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Concerning the stops, I am still on the fence. on the OLDER cars I am still saying do NOT use the stops on the 3650 and the T56 trannies. The internal stops are more than adequate.

BUT...

The new linakge design on the 2005-2009 mustang has a flaw. The linakge arm that connects the shifter to the transmission is a weak link. There is a small pin and shaft on both ends that if given enough force I think could break. I actually believe several people have actually broken them already. So the shift stops may help in preventing the actual linkage arm from snapping which is not related to the internal forks of the tranny.

Would I put them in? Probably not. I do not force my car into gear even when hard shifting. If I miss a shift I let it go and start again. Most bent forks and breakages occur when the driver misses the gate and decides to just keep pulling anyway. Or, they basically pull like they want to rip the **** and throw it out the back window and are relying on the physical stop of the tranny to tell them when they are in gear. You really need to get used to where and how far to push or pull on any manual transmission and not pull so hard. there is a BIG difference between being fast and easy and fast and HARD.

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I will be putting stops in this shifter but I have to say I was VERY reluctant to do so. The internal stops in the Tremec 3650 are very strong and the external stops are really just looking for trouble. BUT, knowing that some cusotmers will not buy without them will make it a neccessary feature.
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External stops are exactly what they are EXTERNAL. They can be adjusted wrong or simply prone to vibrate loose over time. We have talked with the Tremec engineers for hours over this issue. They have told us that they see MANY more issues with the 3650 and T56 trannies being damaged due to improperly set external stops. What happens is the shifter does not go fully into gear due to it hitting the stop. Then under full throttle it pops of of gear while spinning very fast. BOOMM!!! There go the ends of your gear teeth. This is called an UNDERSHIFT situation and according to Tremec occurs MUCH more frequently than an overshift which bends forks.

TacoBill

Sounds like snafu.