bigred0383

For your benefit (TN615), I did look it up:

Dictionary:
Entrapment (read 2):
http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?book...y&va=entrapment
Entrap (read 2):
http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?book...y&va=entrapping

Encyclopedia:
Entrapment:
http://www.britannica.com/eb/article?tocId...=entrapment&ct=

I also won't argue with you about the outside the bar thing, I live in Ill., I am familiar with their laws, it could be different down by you in Ten., but I have a feeling it isn't.

bigred0383

Are you serious? You obviously didn't read the link I posted so here it is again and and a few lines from it:
http://www.christiansciencemonitor.com/200...p02s02-usju.htm
"Recent incidents
Despite attempts to try to stem the tide, people keep posing as police officers. Last month, on Long Island, there were two separate robberies, one of which included a murder, by men posing as police officers. In Arizona late last year, there was a spate of robberies, as well as inappropriate touching of a motorist, by fake cops."

So yes it's real and yes it does happen.
BTW I have member of my family who are MOS (NYPD ESU & Brooklyn Narc South) plus I am off to Fla. to interview for a BSO position this March(so I'm not a cop hater).
Wish me luck I can't stand this cold & snow anymore!
[/b][/quote]

Yes, I am serious. Your article is talking about people posing as UnderCover officers, he was talking about actual UnderCover officers.

On a more positive note, good luck with your career, I am in a similar situation.

TN615

Here you go...

Case File 1: Entrapment?
Original email correspondance:
I was intimidated by a car on the A102(M) a couple of weeks ago. This motor was following me real close with full beam on, so I thought it was some road rage arsehole. In the 50 zone I approached 70 to see if he would back off, then in the 70 zone I hit 95 and he still wouldn't leave me alone. I slowed down to 30 (in the 70 limit) to get the **** to overtake, but no, all he did was start to flash his blue lights. I said straight away "What the gag with the lights, officer?", and all they said was that they are some new halogen super bright bulbs. Bollocks I say, the whole thing is on tape and you can see how bright the lights are on the back of my car. They said that the 70 in the 50 zone was recorded by the camera and that is what I'm in trouble for. Do you reckon this would stand up in court? I know you aren't qualified to dish out legal advice, but I'm just after your opinion. I've already got 9 points ( I drive 50K miles per year), and this could be a ban for me if I'm unlucky.
My reply:
I think the relevant word here is "entrapment". Get a solicitor and if you can prove your case, you ought to be fine. The police driver was driving dangerously, and you were trying to evade a potential danger on the road. You had no way of knowing they were police. As for the blue lights, that is bollocks - the halogen bulbs are white - blue lights would have been their hidden ones in the front grille of the car.
The result:
I don't know if you remember, but in April I wrote to you to ask your advice on my speeding offence. You told me about entrapment, and I duly hired a brief and he really went for it. As a result, last week I received less than the legal minimum for the offence. I should have got at least a 56 day ban, but they only fined me. Thanks very much for putting me on to the right lines...


That's it I'm done.

icemant180

Fast, good looking sports cars are and always will be noticed by local law enforcement. If you want to go fast un-noticed get a taurus or a camray.

bigred0383

I will not comment on the above. The point was that the original poster was NOT busted by entrapment, and neither are the people who the Cops pick up outside the bar. They are not luring people into breaking the law, they are simply waiting for the law to be broken in a situation where it is more than likely to happen, which is NOT entrapment. If you want to call in profiling, then fine.

stoic21

It's called Entrapment... look it up.
[/b][/quote]


It was a joke........one that seems to have fallen short of making anyone laugh, god you people are sad. (also another joke)

And by the way, that isn't entrapment. Now that i think about it it would actually fall more under profiling.Though It's still not, it is closer the the definition. Huh.......ironic.

The police have to cause you to do something wrong when you weren't going do do something unlawful in the first place for it to be entrapment.

stoic21

Oh seems everyone beat me to it.

TN615

Here you go Jim... I have a thousand of these.

"I do know of a friend that this happened to about 7 or 8 years back in Howard County. He was being tailgated at night by someone with their high beams on a back road. This happened a lot to him since he usually stuck within 5 mph of the speed limit; drove me crazy ;-) After a while, he sped up to try and put some distance between him and the offending car. When he hit 15 over the limit (50 in a 35, I think) the dome lights on the car behind him came on and he was given a speeding ticket.
He successfully pleaded entrapment and the charges were dropped. I would consider legal council.

daveyramone

So picking out a driver in a fast new car and following him until they make a mistake is OK? What if they chose to follow a driver because he was black... is that OK too? Rubbish I say.

stoic21

Guys this falls nowhere near the entrapment law. All the cop did was follow him around for awhile to see if he broke the law, he did, so game over. In the above case the cop caused your friend to speed, that is a form of entrapment because the only reason he sped up is because the officer was following too close and made him do something he wouldn't have done otherwise.

stoic21

No but those fall under profiling, not entrapment.

Like I posted earlier

"That's Profilin...... and profilins wrong."

bigred0383

Yes, that is in a form entrapment (however in driving school they teach you to not let other drivers to intimidate you, and to pull over in these situations). The officer in that situation is in the wrong, and yes, the charges would most likely be dropped in that situation because who is going to want to waste court time and money aruging that.

My point is: this didn't happen to the original poster (re-read his first post), there were no lights, there was no tailgaiting, he merely followed him and when he caught him speeding he then closed the distance and turned on his lights. So in his case, NO it's not entrapment.

bigred0383

No but those fall under profiling, not entrapment.

Like I posted earlier

"That's Profilin...... and profilins wrong."
[/b][/quote]


I agree 100% with Stoic21.

SixtySix

Keep thinking that way and I guarantee you more tickets are in your future.

Common sense, you drive the hottest, meanest looking car in North America and you don't expect to get watched a little closer? Guess what, you will.

You didn't pay attention to your surroundings and you got caught. Pay your speed tax and roll on.

Cthulhu

well, michael got what i was talking about, guess you missed it. way to look up words in a dictionary, btw-not quite the legal defs tho, i'm guessing (I'll admit, i'm not a lawyer - maybe they cite webster too)
I WAS talking about fake cops, bro -the fake cops michael mention in THIS VERY THREAD. you know, the ones he again mentioned directly to you. that is why i distinguished btwn "psychopaths" and "cops". read my post again - i'm not insinuating cops are the ones trying to rob/kill you. the money they get from you is called "tickets"

TN615

BTW: I don't know anyone in the replys I have posted. These are documented cases.

Anyway if I saw someone following me I'd speed up too.

All I can say is the law is the law, and if this is actually how it happened, then the law was broken.

In the U.S. anyway.

Just the same as this (what happened in this discussion) is Illegal.... waiting outside a bar waiting for drunks to get into a car is Illegal... Even for anyone in Law Enforcement to run a tag while waiting in traffic without cause is also Illegal.
It just won't hold up in court.

Ratchet1333

Geez, I usually stay out of a thread like this but I'll chime in before it get's locked when the moderators are awake.

I am a Mustang Fanatic, have owned many, but am also a cop. As you may have seen in a thread from yesterday, my wife and I own a Screaming Yellow 05 that had the aftermarket leather seats. Love that ride.

When working I drive a 2004 Crown Vic, silver with no exterior markings. It has LED's and strobes and lights up like a christmas tree when I need the lights. Most don't consider me a psychopath. I am a hit and run investigator with my department and the unmarked helps when I'm looking for people that don't want to be found. Knowing I am in an unmarked I am extremely careful when running hot and have never been in a situation where I have come anywhere near causing death or injury because I do not operate in a reckless manner. And yes, there are exceptions in my profession and that's what you hear about, not the millions of safe miles that are logged in the course of a year by police officers.

Off dutydo I ever speed, sure I do, I own a Mustang. I also own a Dodge truck. Ever speed in it, sure. Am I reckless, do I race on city streets, am I doing excessive speeds over the limit....No. Have I ever been pulled over, sure have. Not in my jurisdiction because I don't do things here that would get me pulled over. I know what it takes and stay below that ceiling. But any time I have been pulled over I NEVER identify myself as an officer, I never "Badge Flash", because I was the cause of my situation. My wife, KAT36, knows how I am and will regularly tell me to get my foot out of it because she knows I'll take the ticket before showing a badge. But I also know how to look for my fellow officers, I know how radar functions so I know if they can "see" me or not. It's a roll of the dice if we choose to disregard the law and when we get caught, it's just that. You got caught. How many times have you done something similar and not been caught? Just a roll of the dice. "Where is a cop when you need him"? It stinks but when you get caught, he just happened to be the same place you were.

I write citations to maybe 55% of the people I stop. I'm nice that way. But it mainly comes down to time and place, nature of infraction and personal contact. I wrote a $102 ticket to a soccor mom in a mini van today. She had two kids in carseats in the back. As I was getting through she thanked me for "being so cool about things" because I could have cited her for three infractions but only wrote one. It was all about my demeanor and setting the tone for the contact. It's not hard but not all cops want to put in the effort.

Cthulhu....in the thread about our interior upgrade you mentioned getting together with other stang heads in the KC area. Still up for that knowing my career choice. Please PM me if you would ever like to do a ride along. I would like to give you the chance to see things from the other side.

Sorry for the rant.

Martin

stoic21

BTW: I don't know anyone in the replys I have posted. These are documented cases.

Anyway if I saw someone following me I'd speed up too.

All I can say is the law is the law, and if this is actually how it happened, then the law was broken.

In the U.S. anyway.

Just the same as this (what happened in this discussion) is Illegal.... waiting outside a bar waiting for drunks to get into a car is Illegal... Even for anyone in Law Enforcement to run a tag while waiting in traffic without cause is also Illegal.
It just won't hold up in court.
[/b][/quote]


This is not illegal, just because the cop followed him it doesn't make it wrong. The cop followed from a safe distance, he sped on his own with no help from the officer, and then was ticketed. There is nothing illegal about it. This is not the same as waiting for drunks to exit bars. Sorry.

Cthulhu

Martin, I hope the reference to "psychopath" was for irony and not bc you also misunderstood me. No, I don't think UC cops are psychopaths. The people michael mentioned earlier in this thread, that dress up like cops and killed/raped ppl after pulling them over I DO consider psychopaths. I don't have a problem with cops that aren't messing with me, nor pretty much any other profession that isn't messing with me. I'd love for you to get in with the "roundup KC" idea (SoCal ppl, sorry for stealing the name ) - I wouldn't e able to until my baby gets here (soon I hope!), but after we're all mustang-ified, Kat36, her husband(sorry bro don't remember your SN off the top of my head), edit: oops, wait thats you - nice car!!! KCTim, you and I should def. get together. Anyone else from KC, PM or post, in a month I'll prolly start a thread for it, and try to get a good sized one done

P.S.- Martin, looks like you misunderstood me too, or maybe you just read what bigred was babbling about me. Nope, don't hate cops, seen 'em on both sides (been arrested for lighting off fireworks on the 2nd of July - D'oh!) and hung out with a few that liked to have a good time. I'm guessing you for that 2nd type .

SixtySix