Watts to think?
3/7/11, 02:01 PM
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Watts to think?
I'm new to modding suspensions and mustangs. I ordered the Boss and have read a lot about the Watts link and it all sounds good. Is it a good place to start to settle down the live rear axle? Is it needed? It will be a summer, weekend driver with 2-4 track days a year
For $650 why doesn't Ford just do it from the factory? I'm sure it would be cheaper for them to do it in bulk
For $650 why doesn't Ford just do it from the factory? I'm sure it would be cheaper for them to do it in bulk
3/7/11, 02:13 PM
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Here's a couple shots of the Griggs Watts Link on my GT500. It's not even close to being the low point on the rear end and I've never hit it on anything. I have rubbed the bottom of the torque arm on some steep driveways, but that sits just slightly lower than the diff at its low point. I drive my GT500 daily and it's slammed.
I have a Fays2 in the garage for the Boss, but I'm not putting it on right away. I want to get some lap times without it first so I know whether it improves it or not.
I have a Fays2 in the garage for the Boss, but I'm not putting it on right away. I want to get some lap times without it first so I know whether it improves it or not.
3/7/11, 02:16 PM
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Originally Posted by 4pipes
Depending on the design, it can reduce ground clearance big time. Ok for the track, not ok for the street.
3/7/11, 02:19 PM
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Originally Posted by cloud9
Here's a couple shots of the Griggs Watts Link on my GT500. It's not even close to being the low point on the rear end and I've never hit it on anything. I have rubbed the bottom of the torque arm on some steep driveways, but that sits just slightly lower than the diff at its low point. I drive my GT500 daily and it's slammed.
I have a Fays2 in the garage for the Boss, but I'm not putting it on right away. I want to get some lap times without it first so I know whether it improves it or not.
I have a Fays2 in the garage for the Boss, but I'm not putting it on right away. I want to get some lap times without it first so I know whether it improves it or not.
3/7/11, 02:20 PM
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I'll let others chime in. On some assemblies I've see online, there is a link that is below the rear end case. I would thing rocks or objects centered under the car would be the problem. Potholes or bumps that force the suspension to work would not be a problem.
3/7/11, 02:23 PM
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Originally Posted by 4pipes
I'll let others chime in. On some assemblies I've see online, there is a link that is below the rear end case. I would thing rocks or objects centered under the car would be the problem. Potholes or bumps that force the suspension to work would not be a problem.
3/7/11, 02:23 PM
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Here's the Fays2. You can see you would tear off a lot of other things before the watts link. These are the only two I'm familiar with so there could be some that hang lower. This picture is not from my car, but a GT I scraped off this site in another thread.
3/7/11, 02:30 PM
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Originally Posted by cloud9
Here's the Fays2. You can see you would tear off a lot of other things before the watts link. These are the only two I'm familiar with so there could be some that hang lower. This picture is not from my car, but a GT I scraped off this site in another thread.
3/7/11, 02:33 PM
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It made a big difference in how the rear end felt powering out on corner exit. I had a lot more confidence applying power without the rear end kicking out. That said, I can't verify specifically how much it lowered lap times because I put it on along with the entire Griggs GR40SS rear suspension and adj Koni coilovers at the same time. All told, I dropped the lap time from 1:48+ to 1:44 flat over the FRPP handling pack I had been running on the same track.
That's why I'd like to get some comparatives on the Boss. Just change one thing at a time!
That's why I'd like to get some comparatives on the Boss. Just change one thing at a time!
3/7/11, 02:34 PM
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Originally Posted by cloud9
It made a big difference in how the rear end felt powering out on corner exit. I had a lot more confidence applying power without the rear end kicking out. That said, I can't verify specifically how much it lowered lap times because I put it on along with the entire Griggs GR40SS rear suspension and adj Koni coilovers at the same time. All told, I dropped the lap time from 1:48+ to 1:44 flat over the FRPP handling pack I had been running on the same track.
That's why I'd like to get some comparatives on the Boss. Just change one thing at a time!
That's why I'd like to get some comparatives on the Boss. Just change one thing at a time!
3/7/11, 02:42 PM
#12
Full disclosure - we (SilverHorse Racing) are a dealer for the Fays2 watts link.
Now that said, it's on my daily driver / track / show car, was on my last one, and is on our race car as well (although a different brand, same concept). The difference is best described to imagining the Mustang as a stone skipping on water, that's how it can feel stock in the corners, compared to the watts-link, which really helps to plant the rear of the car, giving you a lot more confidence in turn-in and mid-corner as to what to expect the car to do. I do not recommend them for mild street-only use, as it is difficult to justify the cost=benefit ratio to someone that never will explore its capabilities, but if you are planning on driving the car hard, you will definitely benefit from it. On our race car at Sebring (17 turns, 3.7 miles / lap) with no other changes to the car, from a PHB to a watts setup we dropped over 2 seconds per lap!
Ground clearance on the Fays (and also on the Steeda which we sell) is a non-issue. On some cars that use a torque-arm for rear rotational control (mostly fox-era / SN95 cars) the torque arm can sit a little lower than the pumpkin, but not by much. But on the watts setup, it's not a problem especially using the factory 3-link configuration for axle control.
Twisted Six is my current daily driver (DD), logged over 15k miles on it with the Fays2 installed so far with no issues, including driving it to Mustang Week last year (600 miles each way) since we had the race car in the trailer.
Hope that helps. Any more technical discussion you want to know about, just ask.
Now that said, it's on my daily driver / track / show car, was on my last one, and is on our race car as well (although a different brand, same concept). The difference is best described to imagining the Mustang as a stone skipping on water, that's how it can feel stock in the corners, compared to the watts-link, which really helps to plant the rear of the car, giving you a lot more confidence in turn-in and mid-corner as to what to expect the car to do. I do not recommend them for mild street-only use, as it is difficult to justify the cost=benefit ratio to someone that never will explore its capabilities, but if you are planning on driving the car hard, you will definitely benefit from it. On our race car at Sebring (17 turns, 3.7 miles / lap) with no other changes to the car, from a PHB to a watts setup we dropped over 2 seconds per lap!
Ground clearance on the Fays (and also on the Steeda which we sell) is a non-issue. On some cars that use a torque-arm for rear rotational control (mostly fox-era / SN95 cars) the torque arm can sit a little lower than the pumpkin, but not by much. But on the watts setup, it's not a problem especially using the factory 3-link configuration for axle control.
Twisted Six is my current daily driver (DD), logged over 15k miles on it with the Fays2 installed so far with no issues, including driving it to Mustang Week last year (600 miles each way) since we had the race car in the trailer.
Hope that helps. Any more technical discussion you want to know about, just ask.
3/7/11, 02:47 PM
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Originally Posted by cloud9
It's a "limited slip" but not a Torsen. I believe it's called a "traction loc"?
I'm anxious to feel the difference....
I'm anxious to feel the difference....
3/7/11, 02:48 PM
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Full disclosure - we (SilverHorse Racing) are a dealer for the Fays2 watts link.
Now that said, it's on my daily driver / track / show car, was on my last one, and is on our race car as well (although a different brand, same concept). The difference is best described to imagining the Mustang as a stone skipping on water, that's how it can feel stock in the corners, compared to the watts-link, which really helps to plant the rear of the car, giving you a lot more confidence in turn-in and mid-corner as to what to expect the car to do. I do not recommend them for mild street-only use, as it is difficult to justify the cost=benefit ratio to someone that never will explore its capabilities, but if you are planning on driving the car hard, you will definitely benefit from it. On our race car at Sebring (17 turns, 3.7 miles / lap) with no other changes to the car, from a PHB to a watts setup we dropped over 2 seconds per lap!
Ground clearance on the Fays (and also on the Steeda which we sell) is a non-issue. On some cars that use a torque-arm for rear rotational control (mostly fox-era / SN95 cars) the torque arm can sit a little lower than the pumpkin, but not by much. But on the watts setup, it's not a problem especially using the factory 3-link configuration for axle control.
Twisted Six is my current daily driver (DD), logged over 15k miles on it with the Fays2 installed so far with no issues, including driving it to Mustang Week last year (600 miles each way) since we had the race car in the trailer.
Hope that helps. Any more technical discussion you want to know about, just ask.
Now that said, it's on my daily driver / track / show car, was on my last one, and is on our race car as well (although a different brand, same concept). The difference is best described to imagining the Mustang as a stone skipping on water, that's how it can feel stock in the corners, compared to the watts-link, which really helps to plant the rear of the car, giving you a lot more confidence in turn-in and mid-corner as to what to expect the car to do. I do not recommend them for mild street-only use, as it is difficult to justify the cost=benefit ratio to someone that never will explore its capabilities, but if you are planning on driving the car hard, you will definitely benefit from it. On our race car at Sebring (17 turns, 3.7 miles / lap) with no other changes to the car, from a PHB to a watts setup we dropped over 2 seconds per lap!
Ground clearance on the Fays (and also on the Steeda which we sell) is a non-issue. On some cars that use a torque-arm for rear rotational control (mostly fox-era / SN95 cars) the torque arm can sit a little lower than the pumpkin, but not by much. But on the watts setup, it's not a problem especially using the factory 3-link configuration for axle control.
Twisted Six is my current daily driver (DD), logged over 15k miles on it with the Fays2 installed so far with no issues, including driving it to Mustang Week last year (600 miles each way) since we had the race car in the trailer.
Hope that helps. Any more technical discussion you want to know about, just ask.
3/7/11, 02:49 PM
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Originally Posted by SilverHorseRacing
Full disclosure - we (SilverHorse Racing) are a dealer for the Fays2 watts link.
Now that said, it's on my daily driver / track / show car, was on my last one, and is on our race car as well (although a different brand, same concept). The difference is best described to imagining the Mustang as a stone skipping on water, that's how it can feel stock in the corners, compared to the watts-link, which really helps to plant the rear of the car, giving you a lot more confidence in turn-in and mid-corner as to what to expect the car to do. I do not recommend them for mild street-only use, as it is difficult to justify the cost=benefit ratio to someone that never will explore its capabilities, but if you are planning on driving the car hard, you will definitely benefit from it. On our race car at Sebring (17 turns, 3.7 miles / lap) with no other changes to the car, from a PHB to a watts setup we dropped over 2 seconds per lap!
Ground clearance on the Fays (and also on the Steeda which we sell) is a non-issue. On some cars that use a torque-arm for rear rotational control (mostly fox-era / SN95 cars) the torque arm can sit a little lower than the pumpkin, but not by much. But on the watts setup, it's not a problem especially using the factory 3-link configuration for axle control.
Twisted Six is my current daily driver (DD), logged over 15k miles on it with the Fays2 installed so far with no issues, including driving it to Mustang Week last year (600 miles each way) since we had the race car in the trailer.
Hope that helps. Any more technical discussion you want to know about, just ask.
Now that said, it's on my daily driver / track / show car, was on my last one, and is on our race car as well (although a different brand, same concept). The difference is best described to imagining the Mustang as a stone skipping on water, that's how it can feel stock in the corners, compared to the watts-link, which really helps to plant the rear of the car, giving you a lot more confidence in turn-in and mid-corner as to what to expect the car to do. I do not recommend them for mild street-only use, as it is difficult to justify the cost=benefit ratio to someone that never will explore its capabilities, but if you are planning on driving the car hard, you will definitely benefit from it. On our race car at Sebring (17 turns, 3.7 miles / lap) with no other changes to the car, from a PHB to a watts setup we dropped over 2 seconds per lap!
Ground clearance on the Fays (and also on the Steeda which we sell) is a non-issue. On some cars that use a torque-arm for rear rotational control (mostly fox-era / SN95 cars) the torque arm can sit a little lower than the pumpkin, but not by much. But on the watts setup, it's not a problem especially using the factory 3-link configuration for axle control.
Twisted Six is my current daily driver (DD), logged over 15k miles on it with the Fays2 installed so far with no issues, including driving it to Mustang Week last year (600 miles each way) since we had the race car in the trailer.
Hope that helps. Any more technical discussion you want to know about, just ask.
3/7/11, 02:57 PM
#17
Installation is 100% bolt-on to the factory mounting locations of the chassis PHB (panhard bar). Axle side mounting is accomplished through two large clamps, which we've never had trouble with, even in "off-track" expeditions at the races. Figure about 2-2.5 hours for a first time installer, mostly due to getting the geometry correct at ride height for proper function and no binding. The actual process is pretty quick once you know where you're going with it.
3/7/11, 02:59 PM
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Originally Posted by SilverHorseRacing
Installation is 100% bolt-on to the factory mounting locations of the chassis PHB (panhard bar). Axle side mounting is accomplished through two large clamps, which we've never had trouble with, even in "off-track" expeditions at the races. Figure about 2-2.5 hours for a first time installer, mostly due to getting the geometry correct at ride height for proper function and no binding. The actual process is pretty quick once you know where you're going with it.
3/7/11, 03:08 PM
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Originally Posted by SilverHorseRacing
Anytime. One of the advantages of installing / using the products we sell - we can help you out with them every step of the way 